$1,500 O-Ring

Geico266

Geico266

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Geico
Let's play...... Name That Part! :D

There is a "beveled o-ring" under the brass fitting that is leaking. Just replace the o-ring right? Wrong. :no: The factory will only sell the compete valve for $1,500 after they "rebuild" this simple valve.

In the experimental world? $1.25 :rofl:



Valve__Medium_.jpg
 
Geico266 said:
Let's play...... Name That Part! :D

There is a "beveled o-ring" under the brass fitting that is leaking. Just replace the o-ring right? Wrong. :no: The factory will only sell the compete valve for $1,500 after they "rebuild" this simple valve.

In the experimental world? $1.25 :rofl:



Valve__Medium_.jpg
Click to expand...

In the LSA world, as well. If you can find a suitable replacement part at Wal-Mart or Tractor Supply, all you need is a note from the manufacturer referencing the part and saying, "Yeah, that'll work."

-Rich
 
So you would rather pay $1500 for an o-ring? :eek:

Ace hardware sells orings that would work. ;)

Why doesn't the factory just sell the o-ring for $5? :dunno:
 
Hmmmmm, I'm going with an ABS part.

Factories don't make money selling 10 cent o-rings, it would be a losing deal for them.
 
I do know of a more expensive one. Local nuke plant sent a Lear round trip from here to Louisiana for one.
 
Geico266 said:
Let's play...... Name That Part! :D

There is a "beveled o-ring" under the brass fitting that is leaking. Just replace the o-ring right? Wrong. :no: The factory will only sell the compete valve for $1,500 after they "rebuild" this simple valve.

In the experimental world? $1.25 :rofl:



Valve__Medium_.jpg
Click to expand...

looks like something to do with brakes
 
Geico266 said:
So you would rather pay $1500 for an o-ring? :eek:

Ace hardware sells orings that would work. ;)

Why doesn't the factory just sell the o-ring for $5? :dunno:
Click to expand...

On the contrary. I think the LSA rules make perfect sense. If the manufacturer says an off-the-shelf part will work, that settles it.

One of my old flight schools owned several LSA, and my CFI told me that they did a great deal of their parts shopping at the local auto parts store. Many of the more commonly-replaced parts (brake pads, filters, instrument panel lamps, and so forth) were actually common, off-the-shelf car or motorcycle parts, and were specifically approved by the various airplane manufacturers as direct replacements.

This didn't mean you could buy any old set of brake pads for, say, a 1998 Celica and put them on the airplane. The parts had to be specific, numbered parts from specific manufacturers. But they were still a heck of a lot less-expensive than your typical, TSO'd airplane parts.

-Rich
 
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This is the sort of thing that leads to the aviation version of civil disobedience.
 
RJM62 said:
On the contrary. I think the LSA rules make perfect sense. If the manufacturer says an off-the-shelf part will work, that settles it.
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The rst of the planes are better, you're authorized to use common replacement so long as they are MILSPEC if I recall the rules correctly.
 
Geico266 said:
Let's play...... Name That Part! :D

There is a "beveled o-ring" under the brass fitting that is leaking. Just replace the o-ring right? Wrong. :no: The factory will only sell the compete valve for $1,500 after they "rebuild" this simple valve.

In the experimental world? $1.25 :rofl:



Valve__Medium_.jpg
Click to expand...


Your A&P/IA could rebuild it, no?
 
Jay Honeck said:
Your A&P/IA could rebuild it, no?
Click to expand...

No. According to the A&P doing the annual Piper (hint hint :eek:) will not sell the o-ring. They will only sell the $1500 valve. I took it apart and there 3 orings. 2 standard ones and a beveled one. Piper will not sell the beveled one.

It would be cheaper and better to modify it to accept a standard o-ring. ;)
 
Steve Foley said:
Couldn't you simply do that and classify it as a owner-produced part?
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Not the way I read the rule because it would not comply with the part being replaced. It would require a field approval or STC I think.
 
Geico266 said:
No. According to the A&P doing the annual Piper (hint hint :eek:) will not sell the o-ring. They will only sell the $1500 valve. I took it apart and there 3 orings. 2 standard ones and a beveled one. Piper will not sell the beveled one.

It would be cheaper and better to modify it to accept a standard o-ring. ;)
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I kinda figured it was a Piper by looking at the aluminum threshold molding the part is placed on for the pic...... I am guessing it is part of the parking brake assembly...... Personally I would machine the part to accept a standard O ring and let it fly......:yesnod:
 
N801BH said:
I kinda figured it was a Piper by looking at the aluminum threshold molding the part is placed on for the pic...... I am guessing it is part ofthe parking brake assembly...... Personally I would machine the part to accept a standard O ring and let it fly......:yesnod:
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Why not buy the beveled o-ring from a o-ring supplier, ask for a MILSPEC part and all is good.
 
Geico266 said:
No. According to the A&P doing the annual Piper (hint hint :eek:) will not sell the o-ring. They will only sell the $1500 valve. I took it apart and there 3 orings. 2 standard ones and a beveled one. Piper will not sell the beveled one.

It would be cheaper and better to modify it to accept a standard o-ring. ;)
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it's a pretty sure bet that piper didn't manufacture the o-ring and with a little digging you could find the manufacturer like Parker
http://www.parker.com/.../ORD 5700 Parker_
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...sg=AFQjCNHXAzA-cmKyp-vKwU9UlZ0z3mkcNg&cad=rja
 
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Henning said:
Why not buy the beveled o-ring from a o-ring supplier, ask for a MILSPEC part and all is good.
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I agree 100%........... if you can find the correct part in a catalog somewhere
 
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The name of he part is called a "Hoss Valve" (pronounced "hof"? It releases hydrolic pressure in an emergency in the landing gear system of the Saratoga. Hit that valve and the gear comes down. That is how it was explained to me anyway. :dunno:

I agree, screw Piper. Modify it or buy the boring somewhere else. What a rip off. :mad2:


Thanks for playing! See you and next week for another exciting episode of ..... "Name That Part!
 
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Ace hardware sells orings that would work.
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Put the wrong material in, put the wrong size in (ones that look close don't count), put the wrong strength in, and you've got a part failure in the works.

I've seen people who put the wrong rubber in their hydraulic system, and had gear failures...just the same is if they put skydrol where H5606 should be, or visa versa.

If you're dealing with a certificated aircraft, you're obligated per Part 43 to use the aircraft materials, parts, tools, practices, and so forth called out by the manufacturer.

Many don't realize that the aircraft manufacturer's manuals aren't the only guidance for their aircraft. While the airframe manufacturer does give guidance on many components, the actual manufacturer of those components gives the overriding guidance. In this case, if Piper didn't manufacture the valve, then you need to look to the maintenance publications for that valve.

There are areas where replacing a packing or o-ring would certainly look to solve the problem, but where the manufacturer no longer makes that allowance (curtis drain valves are a good example).
 
Does the aircraft qualify for the Vintage Aircraft (Maintenance) Advisory Circular?

http://rgl.faa.gov/REGULATORY_AND_GUIDANCE_LIBRARY/RGADVISORYCIRCULAR.NSF/0/ccf7daac581048cd862575e6006ca078/$FILE/AC%2023-27.pdf
 
rainsux said:
Does the aircraft qualify for the Vintage Aircraft (Maintenance) Advisory Circular?
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He doesn't really need that, all he needs is a proper MILSPEC replacement part from the o-ring manufacturer who more likely than not is Parker.
 
Has the original poster viewed the illustrated parts bulletin for the part in question, to get the part number?

Often a packing or o-ring which appears specially-shaped isn't. It's taken a set in that condition, and isn't bevelled, or flat on one side. Often as not, it's a simple o-ring that's been pressed into a particular area, and after a time comes out looking like it's actually square, when it's not, or rounded on one side and flat on the other, or as though it's got a bevelled surface when it really doesn't. It's just been pressed that way and has taken that form. Is that the case here?
 
DouglasBader said:
Has the original poster viewed the illustrated parts bulletin for the part in question, to get the part number?

Often a packing or o-ring which appears specially-shaped isn't. It's taken a set in that condition, and isn't bevelled, or flat on one side. Often as not, it's a simple o-ring that's been pressed into a particular area, and after a time comes out looking like it's actually square, when it's not, or rounded on one side and flat on the other, or as though it's got a bevelled surface when it really doesn't. It's just been pressed that way and has taken that form. Is that the case here?
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Very well could be. The plane belongs to a buddy of mine that is in annual.
 
I've always called it the Hoof valve. The o-ring is probably the really small AN o-ring that causes the hydraulic pump to fast cycle in the up position. The orings are blown-out if you free-fall the gear with the pump operational. Piper gave us the AN number in a training course in 1979. I resealed many of these over the years.

The problem today is there is no written instructions or part numbers to allow the shop to make an "approved repair" There are very few shops willing to take the risk today and it's only going to get worse.
 
kmead said:
I've always called it the Hoof valve. The o-ring is probably the really small AN o-ring that causes the hydraulic pump to fast cycle in the up position. The orings are blown-out if you free-fall the gear with the pump operational. Piper gave us the AN number in a training course in 1979. I resealed many of these over the years.

The problem today is there is no written instructions or part numbers to allow the shop to make an "approved repair" There are very few shops willing to take the risk today and it's only going to get worse.
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It was just leaking fluid from the o-ring under the brass fitting. It functioned fine according to the owner.
 
Geico266 said:
It was just leaking fluid from the o-ring under the brass fitting. It functioned fine according to the owner.
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Geez.... Just fix it and re-install...

If a tree falls over in a forest and no one sees it fall.. Did it really fall recently...:dunno::dunno:
 
N801BH said:
Geez.... Just fix it and re-install...

If a tree falls over in a forest and no one sees it fall.. Did it really fall recently...:dunno::dunno:
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hush, you can't sat that, the FAA is going to send their SWAT team to your house and shoot your dog...:yikes::rofl:
 
jesse said:
The cost of entry for something capable is beyond the means of some people, plus various other valid reasons.
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Cost would be less of a factor if more people would form partnerships and flying club LLCs. 3 partners with $20k each could own a very capable RV. I realize money is certainly an issue Jesse, but there are many ways to "skin a cat" . Spending $1500 on an o-ring doesn't seem very economical to me! ;)

Good to see you and yours at the NE Airshow. Jason and his beautiful family also! What a great day! Iffy VFR flying kept the crowds down, a little rain to wash the plane off. :D
 
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Geico266 said:
Cost would be less of a factor if more people would form partnerships and flying club LLCs. 3 partners with $20k each could own a very capable.
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What 4 seat experimental do you buy for $60k? How about 6 seat?

I don't see where Experimental is cheaper (acquisition wise) for the capability, in fact right now it may be more expensive.

What Experimental gives you is options not available from the certified market and the option to use non certified equipment. The only place that saves serious money is in avionics.
 
Geico266 said:
The name of he part is called a "Hoss Valve" (pronounced "hof"? It releases hydrolic pressure in an emergency in the landing gear system of the Saratoga. Hit that valve and the gear comes down. That is how it was explained to me anyway. :dunno:

I agree, screw Piper. Modify it or buy the boring somewhere else. What a rip off. :mad2:


Thanks for playing! See you and next week for another exciting episode of ..... "Name That Part!
Click to expand...

:yesnod:
 
kmead said:
I've always called it the Hoof valve. The o-ring is probably the really small AN o-ring that causes the hydraulic pump to fast cycle in the up position. The orings are blown-out if you free-fall the gear with the pump operational. Piper gave us the AN number in a training course in 1979. I resealed many of these over the years.

The problem today is there is no written instructions or part numbers to allow the shop to make an "approved repair" There are very few shops willing to take the risk today and it's only going to get worse.
Click to expand...

I wonder about folks who operate such planes for traning reasons, and do practice free falls...
 
Henning said:
What 4 seat experimental do you buy for $60k? How about 6 seat?

I don't see where Experimental is cheaper (acquisition wise) for the capability, in fact right now it may be more expensive.

What Experimental gives you is options not available from the certified market and the option to use non certified equipment. The only place that saves serious money is in avionics.
Click to expand...

Agreed on 4 seaters. On a two-seater mission though, experimentals just take off silly ahead of the certified market. The added acquisition cost would pay for itself on certified parts and mx cost over the course of two annuals versus a spam can. It is why I'm actively seeking a Glasair to replace my warrior. Every time something goes midly wonky on the spam can it's a rehash of the $1,500 O-ring discussion with the A&P and it's just getting effing old already. It's just not worth the aggravation and frustration for the privilege of 110knots anymore.

Im like a broken record on this topic but what this hobby needs is owner exp. It would solve the very topic of this thread among many other issues plaguing the aging GA certified fleet (gas, parts, avionics...et al). I'm actually willing to suggest pricing may actually go up in the case of certain popular spam cans, if released to owner experimental. the FAA just needs to let go (fat chance right?).

:mad2:
 
IF the o-ring is not damaged try this. Place it in a small metal container, cover it with Camguard and place it in the oven for two-three hours at the lowest temperature possible 150-200F.

Ed

Edward Kollin
Technical Director
Aircraft Specialties Lubricants
 
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