0 Landings, but 100% PIC?

[mjburian]

Logged my first simulator time tonight. Afterwards, spent a little time hangar flying and having some "what if" discussions with the sim instructor (who I met for the first time today). On my ride home I came up with a scenario that I wish I would've thought of earlier to get his thoughts. Instead, I'll pose it to the experts here.

Here's the scenario:

An instrument student (PPL, current, etc) flies with a CFII and is the sole manipulator of the controls for the entire flight except for the last 2 minutes, when controls are turned over to the instructor who lands the plane from short final and taxis off of the runway before handing control back to the student.

Let's say the total flight time was 1.5 hours. How much of that can the student legally log as PIC time? Does not having a landing prevent the student from logging the entire flight as PIC? Does the fact that the instructor only had control for 2 minutes (0.03 hours) allow the student to round up from 1.47 to 1.5? What if the instructor had the controls for 4 minutes (0.06 hours)?

 

[Brad Z]

Logging pic time has no requirement to make a take off or landing. Most CFIIs never log a landing while instructing and count that time as PIC time. Same with safety pilots who agree to act as pilot in command.

 

[mjburian]

Logging pic time has no requirement to make a take off or landing. Most CFIIs never log a landing while instructing and count that time as PIC time. Same with safety pilots who agree to act as pilot in command.

But if the instructor had flown for longer (say, 0.1), the student couldn't (legally) log that time as PIC, right? Since they're not a required crew member and wasn't the sole manipulator of the controls.

 

[MachFly]

In this case the student was acting PIC, so he still logs everything (except for the landing).

 

[dmspilot]

Logging pic time has no requirement to make a take off or landing. Most CFIIs never log a landing while instructing and count that time as PIC time. Same with safety pilots who agree to act as pilot in command.

Logging PIC time while giving instruction is a privilege afforded to instructors and isn't relevant in this example. Safety pilots who agree to act as pilot in command still can't log anything if the other pilot is not wearing the hood, which is presumably the case during landing.

 

[Brad Z]

Logging PIC time while giving instruction is a privilege afforded to instructors and isn't relevant in this example. Safety pilots who agree to act as pilot in command still can't log anything if the other pilot is not wearing the hood, which is presumably the case during landing.

My point is there is no requirement to log take offs and landings in conjunction with logging PIC time.

 

[JeffDG]

In this case the student was acting PIC, so he still logs everything (except for the landing).

You can only log "acting PIC" time if you are the sole manipulator, or you are a required crew-member under the type certificate or the regulations under which the flight is operating (ie. safety pilot while pilot flying is under the hood).

 

[poadeleted20]

Two minutes? Nobody's going to care. Log it all.

That said, from a precise legal standpoint, the trainee has no regulatory grounds to log PIC time during those two minutes. However, nobody logs pilot time to two decimal places, so it's not worth worrying about -- 1.47 rounds to 1.5.

 

[mjburian]

Two minutes? Nobody's going to care. Log it all.

That said, from a precise legal standpoint, the trainee has no regulatory grounds to log PIC time during those two minutes. However, nobody logs pilot time to two decimal places, so it's not worth worrying about -- 1.47 rounds to 1.5.

That's the assumption I made, but wondered if having the entire flight logged as PIC with no landings would look suspicious. Though, I suppose it'd be a similar situation if the flight actually lasted 1.7 hours and the student only logged 1.5 of it.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

Quit over-thinking it.

Log all of the time, without the landings.

 

[JeffDG]

That's the assumption I made, but wondered if having the entire flight logged as PIC with no landings would look suspicious. Though, I suppose it'd be a similar situation if the flight actually lasted 1.7 hours and the student only logged 1.5 of it.

Put a note in the comments column. You may not remember years later why, but a quick note, written at the time, is persuasive evidence.

 

[RussR]

I guess I don't really understand the question. Hope I'm not being helplessly dense here but:

The logbook entry is going to say, basically, 3/21/14, type, tailnumber, AAA to BBB, 0 landings, 1.5 PIC, 1.5 total, etc. How long did the flight take? Don't know, that's not recorded. Only the amount of time you flew is recorded anyway. Ever split flight time with a friend? Go on a 2-hour flight and each log 1 hour of it? Only one of you logs a landing. Same thing.

So, how long were you in the air on that 1.5 hour flight? Don't know, don't care, it's not recorded in the logbook.

Similarly but yet oppositely , I have two flights in my logbook that say "0.0 hours, 1 landing". Each time was flying with a friend in Hawaii, just wanted to have a landing in Hawaii in my logbook. Took over on final, T/G, handed it back to him. Probably less than 1 minute of flight each, so just rounded down!