0-200 Overhaul Age

TedR3

TedR3

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
140
Location
Philly
Display Name
Display name:
Ted
Like everyone who ever got their certificate, I have an urge to buy an airplane.

I've been looking at C150's. Many of them don't seem to get much exercise. They are well within TBO but the overhauls are 15+ years old.

For instance, I'm corresponding with the seller of a very clean looking 150M.

Only 780 hours since overhaul, but the overhaul was in 1993. No cylinders replaced since that time. The plane only has 14 hrs on the tach in the past 2.5 yrs! Stored in an open T hanger.

My gut feeling is to treat the engine as run out and walk away. Am I being too picky?

Also:

- Inspection report says "trace of mold" on headliner. Makes me worried about corrosion?

- At what point do compression numbers become a concern? Numbers are 66, 76, 78, 72/80.

Ted
 
Ted, I don't have enough experience to tell you whether the engine thing should be a deal killer. Some on the board will say its not then someone else will chime in and call the other person names and say the engine is a POS run away. I will tell you that certain members of this board have purchased planes with 30 year old engines and low time and they have been running strong for several years now. I'm sure others have had the opposite experience.

I do know a pilot at Wings who just restored a beautiful 150 and was flying it this past weekend. I think he may be looking to sell as he has another small plane as well. If you want to get intouch with him let me know. Otherwise get ready for answers as divergent as the high wing / low wing and global warming debate.
 
TedR3 said:
Like everyone who ever got their certificate, I have an urge to buy an airplane.

I've been looking at C150's. Many of them don't seem to get much exercise. They are well within TBO but the overhauls are 15+ years old.

For instance, I'm corresponding with the seller of a very clean looking 150M.

Only 780 hours since overhaul, but the overhaul was in 1993. No cylinders replaced since that time. The plane only has 14 hrs on the tach in the past 2.5 yrs! Stored in an open T hanger.

My gut feeling is to treat the engine as run out and walk away. Am I being too picky?

Also:

- Inspection report says "trace of mold" on headliner. Makes me worried about corrosion?

- At what point do compression numbers become a concern? Numbers are 66, 76, 78, 72/80.

Ted
Click to expand...

Time doesn't mean anything to metal, that 0-200 is mid life, overhauled in 1993? most probably has early Superior cylinders on it and they were the best. Continental does not have the internal corrosion problems that Lycoming has.

Bottom line I'd not worry about that time laps, I'd worry about compression, oil pressure, Mag type, carb ADs.

the "M" was the best of the bunch, before they ruined the aircraft and made it a 152.

Wasn't the "M" head liner a plastic one? in any aluminum aircraft you worry about corrosion.

The compression number you quote are very typical of a mid life continental cylinder.
 
Last edited:
TedR3 said:
- Inspection report says "trace of mold" on headliner. Makes me worried about corrosion?
Click to expand...

What year is the airplane? If it is an older one and the interior has never been redone.....it may very well have corrosion inside just due to the glue that Cessna used on the interiors. At a minimum, a thorough pre-buy should determine if there is corrosion. I would certainly be suspicious.
 
Tom-D said:
Time doesn't mean anything to metal, that 0-200 is mid life, overhauled in 1993? most probably has early Superior cylinders on it and they were the best. Continental does not have the internal corrosion problems that Lycoming has.

Bottom line I'd not worry about that time laps, I'd worry about compression, oil pressure, Mag type, carb ADs.

the "M" was the best of the bunch, before they ruined the aircraft and made it a 152.

Wasn't the "M" head liner a plastic one? in any aluminum aircraft you worry about corrosion.

The compression number you quote are very typical of a mid life continental cylinder.
Click to expand...
Tom, what is your thought on the possibility that the one cylinder is low simply because it has been sitting so long with very little use?

I have heard that with some engines like that, you will actually see the compressions rise after you start running the engine regularly.
 
Not that most 150 owners will pay for it, but I'd add to Tom's list that it'd be a "feel good" if they have contiguous oil analysis records.
 
Where is it?vTom is right, Contis don't rust like lycomings but if it's been sitting disused in a corrosive environment they can rust too.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Tom, what is your thought on the possibility that the one cylinder is low simply because it has been sitting so long with very little use?

I have heard that with some engines like that, you will actually see the compressions rise after you start running the engine regularly.
Click to expand...

Not knowing how or who did the compression check we don't know the numbers are even correct.

We don't know for sure what cylinders are installed. They may be old OEM Cont. Chromed

With out hands on, we are all guessing.
 
Fearless Tower said:
What year is the airplane? If it is an older one and the interior has never been redone.....it may very well have corrosion inside just due to the glue that Cessna used on the interiors. At a minimum, a thorough pre-buy should determine if there is corrosion. I would certainly be suspicious.
Click to expand...

It's an "M" the last model they made before the 152.

their head liners weren't glued.
 
Tom-D said:
Not knowing how or who did the compression check we don't know the numbers are even correct.

We don't know for sure what cylinders are installed. They may be old OEM Cont. Chromed

With out hands on, we are all guessing.
Click to expand...

Good point


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
timwinters said:
Egggzackery!

Florida? Probably a problem.

Arizona? Probably not.

But either way borescoping and inspection of the cam faces & lifters is cheap peace of mind.
Click to expand...

Ones again, you can't see the cam in a 0-200 with a bore scope.

here is a 0-200 case open, tell me how to get the scope lead in there.
 

Attachments

  • cases 4.jpg
    cases 4.jpg
    196.1 KB · Views: 49
Tom-D said:
Ones again, you can't see the cam in a 0-200 with a bore scope.

here is a 0-200 case open, tell me how to get the scope lead in there.
Click to expand...

Well, maybe I don't understand exactly how it goes together (which is likely) but I'm envisioning pulling a few pushrods and tubes so the lifters can be removed for a face inspection and then, once the lifters are out of the way, take a look at the cam.

My comments about "borescoping" and "inspecting the cam and lifters" were meant to convey separate insections.
 
Last edited:
timwinters said:
Well, maybe I don't understand exactly how it goes together (which is likely) but I'm envisioning pulling a few pushrods and tubes so the lifters can be removed for a face inspection and then, once the lifters are out of the way, take a look at the cam.
Click to expand...
You can't get the lifters out of the 0-200 with out splitting the case.

the lifters and the holes they go in.
 

Attachments

  • DSCN2662.JPG
    DSCN2662.JPG
    223.7 KB · Views: 30
  • cases 5.jpg
    cases 5.jpg
    202.8 KB · Views: 28
Pulling a mag and or a rocker cover or two can give an internal inspection of some steel parts.
 
timwinters said:
Well, maybe I don't understand exactly how it goes together (which is likely) but I'm envisioning pulling a few pushrods and tubes so the lifters can be removed for a face inspection and then, once the lifters are out of the way, take a look at the cam.

My comments about "borescoping" and "inspecting the cam and lifters" were meant to convey separate insections.
Click to expand...

This is what you must worry about in a 0-200/0-300.

You hope someone has not run auto in it and left it set. and the valves rusted fast, and when you start it the cam drives the push rods thru the rocker arms. breaks the springs and then the valve keepers fall off and the valve is sucked into the combustion chamber.

Ethanol is corrosive as hell and the valves is where the rust happens, chocking the guide and seizing the valve stem.
 

Attachments

  • DSCN0333.JPG
    DSCN0333.JPG
    223.7 KB · Views: 12
  • DSCN0334.JPG
    DSCN0334.JPG
    146.9 KB · Views: 11
  • DSCN0336.JPG
    DSCN0336.JPG
    108 KB · Views: 14
  • DSCN0337.JPG
    DSCN0337.JPG
    223.9 KB · Views: 16
  • DSCN0338.JPG
    DSCN0338.JPG
    216.7 KB · Views: 12
  • DSCN0335.JPG
    DSCN0335.JPG
    78.7 KB · Views: 12
Last edited:
Tom-D said:
This is what you must worry about in a 0-200/0-300.

You hope someone has not run auto in it and left it set. and the valves rusted fast, and when you start it the cam drives the push rods thru the rocker arms. breaks the springs and then the valve keepers fall off and the valve is sucked into the combustion chamber.

Ethanol is corrosive as hell and the valves is where the rust happens, chocking the guide and seizing the valve stem.
Click to expand...

Yummy
 
Arrange with the owner to trial fly the plane for 10 hours or so over a weekend....
Fly it an hour and then take an oil sample... Change the oil and filter on your nickle (if you don't buy he got a free oil change) and pound out the other 9 hours and sample that...
Let the oil lab know what is going on and ask for an opinion if it is making metal...

If you don't buy then there will be a quiet agreement for compensation for the use of the plane (remember the price of the oil change)... If you do buy you have some peace of mind and a fresh oil change which it needs anyway...
 
Dr. O said:
Arrange with the owner to trial fly the plane for 10 hours or so over a weekend....
Fly it an hour and then take an oil sample... Change the oil and filter on your nickle (if you don't buy he got a free oil change) and pound out the other 9 hours and sample that...
Let the oil lab know what is going on and ask for an opinion if it is making metal...

If you don't buy then there will be a quiet agreement for compensation for the use of the plane (remember the price of the oil change)... If you do buy you have some peace of mind and a fresh oil change which it needs anyway...
Click to expand...

If you were the seller would you allow that?
 
We have a C-150H that was overhauled in 1991 and has a little over 1300 hours on the overhaul. The airplane you are looking at has flown 780 hours in 19 years, or an average of a little over 40 hours a year. Our 150 will go down maybe a quart between 25 hour oil changes. It runs great. We burn 100LL with TPC additive to help keep the valves from sticking.

I would definitely not run from the airplane because of the engine. Despite the lack of respect, the C-150 is one of the best airplanes Cessna ever made. Jump over on the C-150/152 Club website and poke around a little. You may find it very interesting.
 
If you were the seller would you allow that?
Click to expand...

Good point Tom. I would not go for that kind of thing. Giving up 10 hours over a weekend to fly around with someone I don't know who is trying to find a reason not to buy my airplane would not be my idea of fun.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top