Piper Cherokee Six - First time at the controls.

saracelica

saracelica

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saracelica
I've tried several things to advance my flying skills, since my PPC in April 2012. Tried taildragger and that situation didn't work out. I may try it again next year. I've done quite a bit of XC time with the husband and friends. Finally got the time the insurance requires to fly the bigger airplane. Got my first real flight in our clubs Cherokee Six. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-32)

Much faster then the Warrior (I'm use to flying) and like driving a bus. It takes off really well with only two of the seats being full. Got it trimmed out by the time I got to cross wind. Did a stab at slow flight (that I got figured out in a few minutes - been about 4 months since trying slow flight in anything) Power off stalls was fine. Power on stall is a total non event. It still climbs just fine at a slow speed. Did 6 landings. The first one definetly wasn't good but by the 4th one I had it figured out (I think)

Parked it and logged 1.2 on the hobbs.

Thoughts from me...I'm glad to get the time in it so when my husband wants to take a trip in it I'd be comfortable, that third (prop) lever is another thing to think about at inconvenient times.

Why'd I write this, just to share. :) Looking for tips on how to remember the differences between the Warrior and the Cherokee Six. I was told it was fine for the first time. But we'll be taking it back out on Sunday and I reckon I'm suppose to remember what I learned yesterday.
 
How much more was the rental rate compared to the Warrior percentage wise?
 
Warrior is $84/wet and the Cherokee Six is $145.00/wet (According to my calculator it is 57% more but it's faster and can hold more people. PM me if you want more info Chris.

More information about our club is located www.blue-horizons.org
 
Good for you Sara. One of the advantages to being a non-owner is you have more impetus to try new types. Again, good for you for doing so. Sixes are nice crates, and they'll carry just about anything you can stuff in them.
 
saracelica said:
Warrior is $84/wet and the Cherokee Six is $145.00/wet (According to my calculator it is 57% more but it's faster and can hold more people. PM me if you want more info Chris.

More information about our club is located www.blue-horizons.org
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Oh. Huh. You aren't THAT far from me in Cleveland =)

Thanks for the info. I have a big family (5 kids) and have been curious what the differences are generally.
 
That seems like a good rate for a Six... a bargain compared to the Warrior, considering how much more airplane it is.
I have just a little less time in one than you, and one landing... it sure is like a bus, LOL. And not being a Piper guy at all, I got yelled at for pulling back too much as we touched down (he didn't warn me beforehand, LOL). :yikes: Overall, my approach and landing was not very good, but the Six let me get away with it.

I'd spent almost 12 hours prior to that leg sitting all the way in the back, including lots of time in clouds, and it was a very nice ride. I actually slept a little, which is rare for me in any aircraft. We had five men and all their camping gear in it, and full tanks (Airventure trip), but it performed quite well.

The CFII PIC had a (primary) student in the left seat for most of the trip, hand-flying in summer IMC, and it made him look pretty good. All his time prior to that was in a C-150, with the usual small amount of hood time, I guess.

Good hauler, easy to handle, rock-solid IFR platform, and pretty fast.
 
Nope we're not. :) Come on over some Monday night and have a look-sy. Depending on how big your kids are they'd all fit.
 
I co-own a 1966 PA32-260 with two other guys. We previously co-owned a '64 PA28-180 (basically an older Archer). We love the Six. It burns more gas for sure.

When we started shopping for upgrade from the PA28-180, we were originally looking at C-182s. We found this Six and fell in love with it.

For local putzing around, I still use our club's C-172 due to simplicity and half the fuel usage. You'll burn around 13-14 gal/hr in a PA32-260 to go 130-135 knots.

A C-182 can do that speed on 1 to 1.5 gal less per hour. But, the selling point for us was each of us has two growing daughters. I don't have to worry about how much crap they want to bring in the Six. With full fuel (84 gal), I can still put ~1,100lbs in the cabin.

So comfort, payload and stability are the big winners over a Warrior.

Learn to manage the prop/engine well, and it will serve as a nice vacation airplane. I've given rides at our local charity event before. While the other guys can only take up 1 to 3 people at a time, I can pack 5 in there. :)
 
When getting checked out in an airplane like the six, don't just fly it with just the CFI and you and then load it up and take off on your own. It flies much differently at gross than it does light. Enlist a few brave souls to add some weight in the back during one of your checkout flights.
 
"Fat flight" is part of the checkout. I'm not there yet. Probably be after our cross country trip we're taking it on. I can't wait to see how bad it is fully loaded! The Warrior with someone in the backseat makes it feel a little tail heavy (even within spec)
 
saracelica said:
"Fat flight" is part of the checkout. I'm not there yet. Probably be after our cross country trip we're taking it on. I can't wait to see how bad it is fully loaded! The Warrior with someone in the backseat makes it feel a little tail heavy (even within spec)
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I'm sure it won't be bad, just truck-ish. You have to plan ahead more because it is much slower to climb and much less responsive.
 
I fly a PA32-301 so I have a bit different wing, but if I'm heavy I will carry power deeper into the flare. I will also be rolling trim in during the flare to help keep the nose off.
 
Thanks! I think we discovered they are within the range of other clubs. It's our deposit and dues that are killing us. ($1250/deposit and $125/month) Alas.
 
saracelica said:
Thanks! I think we discovered they are within the range of other clubs. It's our deposit and dues that are killing us. ($1250/deposit and $125/month) Alas.
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My hangar rate is more than your dues. And your deposit? I pay more than that for most annuals.
 
saracelica said:
Warrior is $84/wet and the Cherokee Six is $145.00/wet (According to my calculator it is 57% more but it's faster and can hold more people. PM me if you want more info Chris.

More information about our club is located www.blue-horizons.org
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Wow I could rent a Six for the same price that I rent an old 172 for :hairraise:
I like the stance of the PA-32. It's an aircraft that you can yell, "pull up your pants and stop sagging!" at. Also looks like a working PA-28.
 
saracelica said:
Thanks! I think we discovered they are within the range of other clubs. It's our deposit and dues that are killing us. ($1250/deposit and $125/month) Alas.
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Cost me $1200 for a membership in my club in 2000. So, that's not bad. Our monthly dues are $75, with $15 credited back if you fly that month. 4 aircraft, 50 members and I've only been skunked once when I wanted to fly. Not bad. I don't think your club is out of line, and the hourly rates aren't bad, either.
 
saracelica said:
... stalls were fine. Power on stall is a total non event. ... just to share.... :) .
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I don't know whether your experience was like mine (and others who told me the same); but when I checked out on a PA-28R-200, I would also classify the power on stalls as non-events:
Even with the yoke in my lap, it would just sit there an mush, not breaking unless I kicked the rudder.
I've heard from others that that is common with the cherokee/PA28 line (from which the PA-32 descends)
 
Ghery said:
Cost me $1200 for a membership in my club in 2000. So, that's not bad. Our monthly dues are $75, with $15 credited back if you fly that month. 4 aircraft, 50 members and I've only been skunked once when I wanted to fly. Not bad. I don't think your club is out of line, and the hourly rates aren't bad, either.
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Credit back if you fly that's an interesting idea.
 
So the thread went off on the new airplane and didn't answer the question.

The answer is checklists and repetition. Four landings and 1.2 hours is barely scratching the surface of the brain's memory cells. Not even close to enough time to hop in and remember all the differences.

Once you get to four or five types, you start to see the patterns of the stuff that's "usually" different and then there's the "this is really different and will bite you" box in your head for the really weird stuff.

Until then, live by the checklist and practice your emergency flows. Muscle memory. Nowadays a digital photo of the panel helps so you can visualize it somewhere else other than the airport, later. Couch flying.
 
denverpilot said:
So the thread went off on the new airplane and didn't answer the question.
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It did Nate you're right. But at least it stayed on topic of this particular plane and I got to advertise my flying club. :)

A picture of the cockpit is a good thought! I do have a beautiful camera now so that may work out.

FYI - it was 6 landings. :-D
 
Again, get some good education on engine management. The O-320 in the Warrior will tolerate much more than the bigger engine in the Six. Learn what combos of MP and RPM give you certain power settings. Learn what settings you need for various phases of flight. For example, 18" and 2200 rpm in the pattern is a nice hands off 90 knots or so. Abeam the numbers, pull back to 14" and ride the rail around base-to-final. YMMV.

Does your club rent by the tach? If so, run with the lowest possible RPM setting you can for the given flight conditions and performance desires.
 
saracelica said:
Thanks! I think we discovered they are within the range of other clubs. It's our deposit and dues that are killing us. ($1250/deposit and $125/month) Alas.
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Great rental price...;) but the deposit and monthly :mad2: would be a turn off for me if I lived in your neck of the woods... The six rents for the same price as our 172 here in California...
 
crash7 said:
Does your club rent by the tach? If so, run with the lowest possible RPM setting you can for the given flight conditions and performance desires.
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That's very type, engine, and airplane specific. The last time I checked that with a stop watch I took a bigger penalty in true airspeed then I gained by slowing time down.
 
Q. What did the naked Indian say to Sara's flight club?

A. "Check out my Cherokee Six!"


Hahahahahahaha!
 
> Check out my Cherokee Six!

Funny. I ordered "CHEKSIX" as my wife's vanity plate for the next year. Yes;
this is yet another example of my "poor judgement." Amazingly; inspite of
SWMBO and 121DOT5, my bride still lets me pick the vanity plate for her car.

Hopefully, none of her girl friends will "get it." Otherwise; I will "get it."
Actually; I will be the one, "not getting it" ... with prejudice! I'm always an
example ... but generally, not a good example.
 
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More likely it'll just be an invitation to pilots who know what it means, to check out HER six.

Probably not the best choice in license plate.
 
saracelica said:
Credit back if you fly that's an interesting idea.
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My club does that too, only it's $50/month of the $180/month dues. $125/month is not excessive if you have well-equipped airplanes that are available when you want to fly, we were at $130/month prior to the new airplane. Considering the GPS databases cost nearly $1000/year apiece, well, if you want them up to date you've gotta fork over some money. Hangars and good insurance ain't cheap, either.

Anyway, back to the flying credit - It's a great incentive for people to get up at least once a month and stay current and proficient. And, since we bill by tach time, you can actually get quite a few trips around the pattern for your 50 bucks. It's very rare for me to miss out on the flying credit!
 
My club's dues are $45 a month, but if you don't fly they tack on a fee equal to half an hour in the cheapest plane -- right now that's another $40.

And still, about half the members never fly. :dunno:
 
DaleB said:
My club's dues are $45 a month, but if you don't fly they tack on a fee equal to half an hour in the cheapest plane -- right now that's another $40.

And still, about half the members never fly. :dunno:
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About a third of ours don't fly club planes, either. I love them. They help subsidize my hangar and insurance and don't compete for cockpit time. Great members. :D
 
I first flew a Cherokee Six 40 years ago, as a 18 year old 135 pilot. Mostly flew bags of little auto parts (grommets, widgets, etc) from local manufacturers to auto companies in Detroit; and also flew dead bodies for local funeral homes. Loved that airplane even way back then, swore I'd own one some day. And I did....I've owned a PA32-300 for the last 20 years. For us, it was a great family airplane for trips out to about 800NM. (Max Distance/Tolerance Level for the Wife & Kids.) Kids are grown and gone now, and I'd really like to get a Mooney Bravo (40-50 kts faster on the same fuel burn) but the wife won't give up the big cabin! On long trips, with just the two of us, I take out most of the back seats and thrown in old sofa cushions covered by old sleeping bags. Add a couple of pillows and she has a complete, full length bunk/berth back there. Of course, by doing so, I have made it so comfortable I'll never be able to get rid of it and get that Mooney Bravo!
 
Dave Theisen said:
When getting checked out in an airplane like the six, don't just fly it with just the CFI and you and then load it up and take off on your own. It flies much differently at gross than it does light. Enlist a few brave souls to add some weight in the back during one of your checkout flights.
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Correct. Also do one or two (simulated) short field landings at MGW. At book speeds you will be amazed at the power you need to carry...

-Skip
 
Ghery said:
About a third of ours don't fly club planes, either. I love them. They help subsidize my hangar and insurance and don't compete for cockpit time. Great members. :D
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Oh, I certainly wasn't complaining!! Just puzzled. I definitely don't mind that I don't have to complete for time on the schedule with half of them.
 
Dave Theisen said:
When getting checked out in an airplane like the six, don't just fly it with just the CFI and you and then load it up and take off on your own. It flies much differently at gross than it does light. Enlist a few brave souls to add some weight in the back during one of your checkout flights.
Click to expand...
Looks like this weekend I'll be filling up the airplane to within 200lbs of gross weight weather permitting!

~K
 
Nice! I think your club rates are pretty decent. Ours is $500 initiation fee (non refundable), $75 per month, the Warrior at $100/hour and the 182 at $135/hr. That Six would make a cool vehicle for those Pilots 'n' Paws flights!:wink2:
 
This is why I don't belong to a club (technically I do but I got in for "free").

I paid nothing to join.

I pay no monthly fees.

My 150 is $80 wet. I have found NOBODY in the entire Northern California area that even comes close to that.

I couldn't afford or justify monthly fees even if they did save me rental costs, but it turns out they don't anyways.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
This is why I don't belong to a club (technically I do but I got in for "free").

I paid nothing to join.

I pay no monthly fees.

My 150 is $80 wet. I have found NOBODY in the entire Northern California area that even comes close to that.

I couldn't afford or justify monthly fees even if they did save me rental costs, but it turns out they don't anyways.
Click to expand...

My Flybaby runs about $14/hr in car gas and isn't much slower than a 150. Cost less than your car.
 
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