Toyota recall, or how floormats can kill

gismo said:
I've never driven a car that had more power than the brakes could handle, at least on the first attempt. Of course with a FWD car standing on the brakes while the engine is putting out considerable power is likely to lock the rear wheels but even that won't happen with ABS.

Baring a malfunction or fade, brakes can usually create enough force to decel a car at .8 to 1 g. Few if any street cars have enough power to accelerate that well above 10-15 mph and usually any car with that kind of power will have more powerful brakes.
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It's just harder to stop than you might think.
 
gismo said:
Most but not all automatics won't drop into reverse until forward motion is mostly stopped.
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Correct, the TCU will not engage the reverse clutch pack(s) (assuming non-CVT) until the VSS output is almost at zero.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
It's just harder to stop than you might think.
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Sure, it's going to take a much greater distance to stop than normal, but you should be able to stop and unless you were headed for a tight turn or needed to stop quickly when the throttle got stuck. And in almost any case you'll be a lot slower when you crash if you apply max braking even if you can't stop completely.

And FWIW, I have tested the ability to overide full throttle with heavy brake pressure in several cars. In the last tow Audi's I've owned applying the brakes, even partially, will close the throttle even if the accelerator is stuck (throttle by wire). This is rather annoying if you're trying to go fast around an ice course.
 
Maybe we'll have a "Toyota Victims' Network," like there was an "Audi Victims' Network," created by Plaintiffs' lawyers and quoted as a "source" by 60 Minutes.

OBTW: Not one Audi unintended acceleration plaintiff won. Because (like Lance said), brakes can always overcome the driveline.
 
Bob Noel said:
Mythbusters did part of an episode about putting cars into reverse.
Nothing happened.
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gismo said:
Most but not all automatics won't drop into reverse until forward motion is mostly stopped.
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I guess I've only done it twice. Once was by mistake in my 1989 Dodge Dakota and I was doing about 65 mph. The rear tires instantly locked up. The rear-end died a week later.

The other time was in some old Dodge station wagon that my dad used to drive. The brakes didn't really work in the car at all and it was SOP to just throw it in reverse. The car was driven this way by him for quite a long time before he had the junk yard pick it up.

If you've ever done it in a car where it works you'll know why they probably make it not work in new cars. It's a hell of a ride.
 
jesse said:
I guess I've only done it twice. Once was by mistake in my 1989 Dodge Dakota and I was doing about 65 mph. The rear tires instantly locked up. The rear-end died a week later.

The other time was in some old Dodge station wagon that my dad used to drive. The brakes didn't really work in the car at all and it was SOP to just throw it in reverse. The car was driven this way by him for quite a long time before he had the junk yard pick it up.

If you've ever done it in a car where it works you'll know why they probably make it not work in new cars. It's a hell of a ride.
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Yeah, it killed the TH400 in my '82 XJ-S some years ago. I decided that was a good opportunity to throw in a 5-speed.

Also killed the 3-speed auto in a Renault Alliance convertible doing that (good luck finding one of those). This was after one of the brake lines popped on me, and I wanted to stop before rear-ending the car ahead of me.
 
jesse said:
If you've ever done it in a car where it works you'll know why they probably make it not work in new cars. It's a hell of a ride.
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I did do that once sort of. I was visiting a girlfriend in northern Michigan in my parent's car (Olds 98 IIRC) and for some reason I can't remember the girl was driving the car on a back county road and had gotten behind a slower car. When she passed the car I had moved the gearshift into second because the automatic kickdown wasn't working. One she was around the car and a ways down the road I noticed she had left it in second so I casually reached over and flipped it back into drive. Of course I must have flipped it a bit too hard because it went all the way past drive and neutral ending up in reverse. We were probably going about 65-70 at the time and while it did lurch and chirp the tires it didn't really stop quickly. But the engine had stalled so we rolled to a stop on the side of the road (and got passed by the slow car). Then when she tried to restart the engine barely cranked and then wouldn't turn at all. At first I was thinking that the engine must have run backwards and somehow that locked it up but it didn't take me long to figure out that what really happened was that the engine had rocked way over in it's mounts and yanked on the battery cable hard enough to break it loose. I pounded the terminal back on with a flashlight and it fired right up. AFaIK there was no permanent damage to anything although it couldn't have been good for the reverse band in the tranny, the engine mounts, or the rest of the drivetrain. For some reason I never did mention any of this to my parents.
 
Most people have NEVER opened their owners manual much less learned anything more than how to start and stop their car. They're morons. Why anyone can let a car get up to 120 without taking action to stop it is beyond me.
If the rugs in the car interfere, maybe before you drive away, YOU properly adjust or get rid of them. Blaming the manufacturer for your stupidity should be a crime.
 
silver-eagle said:
Most people have NEVER opened their owners manual much less learned anything more than how to start and stop their car. They're morons. Why anyone can let a car get up to 120 without taking action to stop it is beyond me.
If the rugs in the car interfere, maybe before you drive away, YOU properly adjust or get rid of them. Blaming the manufacturer for your stupidity should be a crime.
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But most consumer goods should be labeled as hazardous or one should have to try really hard to hurt themselves. For example, McD coffee cups say it's hot cause someone stuck the cup between her legs and burned herself. I once had a pair of durable jeans with 3% Kevlar blended in that said "not bullet resistant". Obviously cars are the same.
 
gismo said:
For some reason I never did mention any of this to my parents.
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Sounds like a number of experiences with my mom's Volvo when I was in high school that she hasn't found out about, either. :)
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Try it with the car moving at highway speeds and the pedal at wide open, you might be surprised...
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BTDT. My Mom had an '81 Suburban, 454 rat motor, 4 barrel Quadra-junk, 410 rear end, dual exhausts, set up for trailer towing.

One fine February day, I was exercising those 4 barrels, when I lifted off and found the truck kept on accelerating at full throttle. I kicked the pedal a few times, and it stayed stuck, so I clicked it into neutral, and as quickly as I could, clicked one back on the ignition. The backfire as the motor wound down was bad enough that it TOTALLY pretzeled one of the mufflers.

I drifted to the side of the road, opened the hood, wiggled the linkage, and it was fine after. I told the parents after I got home about the stuck throttle, but it never stuck again in the 100k+ miles we put on that truck.

I was maybe 18 or 19 at the time.
 
bbchien said:
Yes, we are collectively that stupid. We're fat, dumb and stupid. Sigh.
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I think we should take the warning labels off everything and let the problem solve itself.
 
Glad I'm not the only one who finds the recall stupid and offensive.

Apparently, the Lexus in question is one of those new cars where you don't start and shut off by turning a key, and the transmission doesn't just shift with a simple lever on the floor or column (although it sure looks pretty standard on the Lexus website).

Dealing with the push-botton stop and start is a simple matter of reading the manual when you obtain the vehicle. I always do that, as I want to figure out how stuff like the radio works and where the breakers are hiding, etc.

But my damn truck is on the list. It has a key that you turn the vehicle on and off with, same as every other vehicle that I have driven since 1980. And it has a straightforward console shifter that is easy to drop into neutral. Getting it to stop if the accellerator sticks is just not that big an issue.

And the stupid floor-mats have two anchor points that attach them to the floor. They can be taken out, but not easily. In 25K miles of ownership, I've yet to have a floor mat shift.

This recall, and the imbeciles who have caused it, just make me mad.

Jim G
 
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