Pilot dies in flight

flyingcheesehead said:
But they quoted pax as saying they had no idea until after landing.
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The AP story I read first said that when there was an announcement by the crew asking if there were any Doctors on board, that several passengers approached the cockpit as the doctor was rendering aid. I would have thought that kind of news would have spread like lightening down the isles. But I'll bet it was picked up over the radio either by, or passed on to the media.

I've seen plenty of times when they would beat first responders to a interesting call that they heard over the radio.
 
More than likely when the crew reported via ACARS of the situation someone in dispatch leaked it to the media. There would be no reason to report to ATC the situation unless the flight had declared an emergency. If the man was already dead I wouldn't consider it an emergency.
 
Ron Levy said:
I believe you've said before that at UAL, only one of the two F/O's on those long-range flights is is fully PIC-qualified, and the other is only SIC-qualified. Does CO do it differently?
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Define "PIC qualified"? Do you mean typed and line checked as a PIC?
 
Rotor&Wing said:
More than likely when the crew reported via ACARS of the situation someone in dispatch leaked it to the media. There would be no reason to report to ATC the situation unless the flight had declared an emergency. If the man was already dead I wouldn't consider it an emergency.
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smigaldi said:
drama queens some where ordered them. My guess is that the firefighters were bored.
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I would guess that both the declaration of the emergency and the ARFF response were standard operating procedure (for the airline and the firefighters, respectively).

And sure, they didn't really need to declare or have the equipment - But it's a case of "Better to have done it and not needed it than the alternative."

Good call all around. :yes:
 
tonycondon said:
lol no kidding

*over the PA*

attention ladies and gentlemen the captain has died, so we're going to ditch in the north atlantic in order to perform CPR. Don't worry I've alerted the Carpathia and they are steaming our way so that you can continue your journey to New York.
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"Shut up, shut up; you are jamming my signal. I am trying to reach Cape Race!"

RMS Titanic (which didn't file a flight plan and, what's more, was not being controlled by ATC)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I would guess that both the declaration of the emergency and the ARFF response were standard operating procedure (for the airline and the firefighters, respectively).

And sure, they didn't really need to declare or have the equipment - But it's a case of "Better to have done it and not needed it than the alternative."

Good call all around. :yes:
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Exactly.:smilewinkgrin:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
And sure, they didn't really need to declare or have the equipment - But it's a case of "Better to have done it and not needed it than the alternative."

Good call all around. :yes:
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Then why not have the equipment idling on every takeoff and landing?

Sorry -- the crash trucks added unnecessary drama to what was --though sad -- essentially a non-event, given the fact there was a full crew on-board.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
So what is it with Continental - That's their second one in a row! (Note to self: Start flying Continental more often!)
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My thoughts exactly!

Obi Heed Kenobi said:
I think you might have to arm-wrestle all of the flight-simulator pilots who have the PMDG add-on.

[owns PMDG add-on] :D
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No joke... However, I have a leg up on those guys because I am a rated pilot who owns the PMDG add-on and has some time in the 737-800 full-motion sim. Plus, I can take those guys if I need to. :D

bbchien said:
What is amazing to me is how the press got this BEFORE TOUCHDOWN. No way would this be on HF. ACARS, maybe.

It suggests someone in the dispatch office got a bonus from a news organization......
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That's the thing that got me too - I really doubt they would have declared an emergency, unless they did it when he was debilitated but not yet dead. I can definitely see them informing dispatch via an ACARS message, but the media wouldn't have a way of intercepting those.

ausrere said:
Don't they have internet access on most international flights these days? If they made an announcement to the passengers, couldn't it have been a passenger who alerted the media?
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Not on CO.

flyingcheesehead said:
But they quoted pax as saying they had no idea until after landing.
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Right - according to the passenger interview I saw, they just asked if there was a doctor on board, and that was it. There was no indication that it was a crew member they needed one for. The crew handled it calmly and professionally and the passengers were completely at ease until after they landed and the media started shoving cameras and microphones in their faces.

Rotor&Wing said:
More than likely when the crew reported via ACARS of the situation someone in dispatch leaked it to the media. There would be no reason to report to ATC the situation unless the flight had declared an emergency. If the man was already dead I wouldn't consider it an emergency.
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That could be... in which case I'd hope that there is now a new opening for a job in CO dispatch - I know a guy from another board who is dying to get on with them.

dmccormack said:
Then why not have the equipment idling on every takeoff and landing?

Sorry -- the crash trucks added unnecessary drama to what was --though sad -- essentially a non-event, given the fact there was a full crew on-board.
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+1 - no reason for the crash trucks in this situation.
 
Ron Levy said:
I believe you've said before that at UAL, only one of the two F/O's on those long-range flights is is fully PIC-qualified, and the other is only SIC-qualified. Does CO do it differently?
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I never said that. We are all fully qualified and typed. I can't speak for CO but I have to think they do the same thing.
 
smigaldi said:
Do they know how to file the flight plans?
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Funny you should mention that. One day in the distant past, all of our computers crashed and flight plans could not get filed. That is a dispatcher function anyway. We were all standing around wondering what to do and I made the comment to my captain something to the effect of why can't we file it ourselves. No one could think of a reason not to so I called FSS and filed it myself. And off we went.

Since it is a dispatch function, those "skills" evidently atrophy. Since I am first and foremost a GA pilot, I had that skillset and off we went.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Define "PIC qualified"? Do you mean typed and line checked as a PIC?
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At UAL we are all typed. We don't get line checked as PIC as such. We get line checked as a CREW. But as far as the FAA is concerned, we are qualified.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Funny you should mention that. One day in the distant past, all of our computers crashed and flight plans could not get filed. That is a dispatcher function anyway. We were all standing around wondering what to do and I made the comment to my captain something to the effect of why can't we file it ourselves. No one could think of a reason not to so I called FSS and filed it myself. And off we went.

Since it is a dispatch function, those "skills" evidently atrophy. Since I am first and foremost a GA pilot, I had that skillset and off we went.
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I've had airline pilots look at me in shock when I tell them we do our own flight planning and file our own flight plans. On a side note, I thought of one of them yesterday when I heard about the CO pilot dying in flight since I know someone who fits that profile; 61-year-old Newark-based 777 captain. Luckily it wasn't him.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
ANYthing unusual and they would roll the trucks. Crew probably did NOT request it. The CFR folks look for any excuse to get out of the firehouse.
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Just like the neighbors at a fire or accident or police action, they want to get there early so they have a good spot to watch from.
 
mikea said:
Just like the neighbors at a fire or accident or police action, they want to get there early so they have a good spot to watch from.
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That, and who doesn't like driving a big old diesel truck with flashing lights and a siren? I mean, obviously I would use any excuse I could think of to do that.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
ANYthing unusual and they would roll the trucks. Crew probably did NOT request it. The CFR folks look for any excuse to get out of the firehouse.
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Just like the neighbors at a fire or accident or police action, they want to get there early so they have a good spot to watch from.

(Drift- We were out talking this weekend when we watched eventually all four cop cars in town show up across the road to arrest a guy that was pulled over and tow away his car. Just as we went closer to look we see them tell the guy in cuffs to get in to the police car - with none of the 4 cops near or behind him as he walked around the car and got in. :nono: They musta been sure he was harmless.)
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Funny you should mention that. One day in the distant past, all of our computers crashed and flight plans could not get filed. That is a dispatcher function anyway. We were all standing around wondering what to do and I made the comment to my captain something to the effect of why can't we file it ourselves. No one could think of a reason not to so I called FSS and filed it myself. And off we went.

Since it is a dispatch function, those "skills" evidently atrophy. Since I am first and foremost a GA pilot, I had that skillset and off we went.
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Greg, I'm curious. Do you have a sense of how many fellow airline pilots are regular GA pilots as well? Of those pilot's I've cornered waiting for a plane to arrive or sitting next to me on a plane (not too many - perhaps 10-15 total) I'd say about 50% or less are regular GA pilots. Mine is a pretty small population, but I'm curious as to your take on this.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Funny you should mention that. One day in the distant past, all of our computers crashed and flight plans could not get filed. That is a dispatcher function anyway. We were all standing around wondering what to do and I made the comment to my captain something to the effect of why can't we file it ourselves. No one could think of a reason not to so I called FSS and filed it myself. And off we went.

Since it is a dispatch function, those "skills" evidently atrophy. Since I am first and foremost a GA pilot, I had that skillset and off we went.
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i think I may have remembered that day. As we were waiting for the computers to come up I was chatting with the FO and mentioned that we should just call FSS and file, he thought that there a was a company directive that would not allow it. We then just chatted about how nice GA can be without all the corporate bureaucracy.
 
t0r0nad0 said:
That's the thing that got me too - I really doubt they would have declared an emergency, unless they did it when he was debilitated but not yet dead. I can definitely see them informing dispatch via an ACARS message, but the media wouldn't have a way of intercepting those.
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Au contraire! It's relatively simple to intercept and decode ACARS messages. Lots of ham radio operators and ATC-lurkers do it. One of them could have leaked it to the media, and I wouldn't be surprised if one of the big networks has a feed set up themselves or subscribes to one...

Free software and tools abound:

http://www.qsl.net/g4hbt/cars.htm

And if you don't want to set up a receiver and software, you can just browse one of the realtime web ACARS monitoring sites, such as this one.
 
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nddons said:
Greg, I'm curious. Do you have a sense of how many fellow airline pilots are regular GA pilots as well? Of those pilot's I've cornered waiting for a plane to arrive or sitting next to me on a plane (not too many - perhaps 10-15 total) I'd say about 50% or less are regular GA pilots. Mine is a pretty small population, but I'm curious as to your take on this.
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I can't give you a percentage but a lot don't want to have anything to do with little airplanes.
 
Jeez this is incredible. A miracle, actually. They landed safely, without having Sully at the controls????!!!!!!
 
rpadula said:
Did he have the fish for dinner?
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The life of everyone on board depends upon just one thing: finding someone back there who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner.


It starts with a slight fever and dryness of the throat. When the virus penetrates the red blood cells, the victim becomes dizzy begins to experience an itchy rash, then the poison goes to work on the central nervous system, severe muscle spasms followed by the inevitable gruelling. At this point, the entire digestive system collapses accompanied by uncontrollable flatulence Until finally, the poor bastard is reduced to a quivering wasted piece of jelly.
 
Wow, and if you ever needed proof that the media not only reads / searches the pilot message boards, but also incorporates their speculations and/or comments as quotations in a news article, check out this relatively well-written article:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/06/19/continental.pilot.dead.ages/index.html

Messages from posters on PRUNE are quoted:

Posts on the Professional Pilots Rumor Network also suggested age-ist complaints were out of line.

"As long as you can hold a medical you should be good to go," read one.

Another opined, "A lot of outwardly healthy individuals drop dead in their 40s from heart attacks. I don't think, therefore, there is much mileage in dwelling on the upping of the [retirement] age. If the guy had been 59 ... this wouldn't even have been part of the discussion."

However, one individual using the handle "BlackBird" wrote, "It's the greed of the companies and the greed of those old fart captains sitting in my seat. I think this just goes to show that age 65 was too much -- law should be repealed and age 60 should return as the norm."

Numerous responses indicated BlackBird was in the minority.

<snip>

Though pilot message boards predict Lenell's death Thursday will renew an unwarranted debate over pilots' ages, Green said he believes the law is correct as it stands.
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I was pleased that, when John Nance was interviewed on ABC's morning show, in response to the inevitable question regarding whether the age 65 thing had anything to do with the situation, he said, "Not at all; there have been plenty of pilots in their forties who collapsed and died, and there are pilots of seventy-five years old who ought to still be in the cockpit, commanding flights."

I paraphrase, but the essence was an absolute, unequivocal rejection of the notion that the Captain's age was a material issue. This is as it should be.
 
SCCutler said:
I was pleased that, when John Nance was interviewed on ABC's morning show, in response to the inevitable question regarding whether the age 65 thing had anything to do with the situation, he said, "Not at all; there have been plenty of pilots in their forties who collapsed and died, and there are pilots of seventy-five years old who ought to still be in the cockpit, commanding flights."

I paraphrase, but the essence was an absolute, unequivocal rejection of the notion that the Captain's age was a material issue. This is as it should be.
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If the guy had been 58, nobody would have noticed. Yeah, stupid issue. People seem to ignore that these 60-something pilots have to have a Class I medical, which I believe they get every 6 months? They have to be in better condition than the average sedentary near-retirement Joe.
 
flyersfan31 said:
If the guy had been 58, nobody would have noticed. Yeah, stupid issue. People seem to ignore that these 60-something pilots have to have a Class I medical, which I believe they get every 6 months? They have to be in better condition than the average sedentary near-retirement Joe.
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Isn't a treadmill stress test required at some age?

What other test would want? Time travel to verify your death date?
 
dmccormack said:
Then why not have the equipment idling on every takeoff and landing?

Sorry -- the crash trucks added unnecessary drama to what was --though sad -- essentially a non-event, given the fact there was a full crew on-board.
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My thinking is unless he was declared deceased by a physcian if there is even the slightest chance the guy is alive but unconcious they have to send out emergency vehicles.
 
AdamZ said:
My thinking is unless he was declared deceased by a physcian if there is even the slightest chance the guy is alive but unconcious they have to send out emergency vehicles.
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He was declared dead by one of several physicians on board.

The crash trucks were pointless drama.
 
AdamZ said:
My thinking is unless he was declared deceased by a physcian if there is even the slightest chance the guy is alive but unconcious they have to send out emergency vehicles.
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As Dan pointed out a physician on board had already pronounced him dead. But I am wondering how the giant Oshkosh pumper trucks can help to bring a person back to life and assist in a medical issue? Wouldn't just the ambulance with the paramedics on board be enough? Foam making machines really do not have a whole lot of medical value in this case. But make for some pretty dramitic b-roll for the newies.
 
smigaldi said:
As Dan pointed out a physician on board had already pronounced him dead. But I am wondering how the giant Oshkosh pumper trucks can help to bring a person back to life and assist in a medical issue? Wouldn't just the ambulance with the paramedics on board be enough? Foam making machines really do not have a whole lot of medical value in this case. But make for some pretty dramitic b-roll for the newies.
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Yes, but remember that the dead person on board was the captain, and the plane had to be flown by a FO ( instead of a real pilot) (note: read sarcasm in here)so this was the reason for the crash equipment to roll. If there had been a pilot instead of a FO flying they wouldn't have needed it.:frown3:
 
Bob Bement said:
Yes, but remember that the dead person on board was the captain, and the plane had to be flown by a FO ( instead of a real pilot) (note: read sarcasm in here)so this was the reason for the crash equipment to roll. If there had been a pilot instead of a FO flying they wouldn't have needed it.:frown3:
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2 Fo's were flying the plane. Do 2 FO's = 1 pilot?? [/sarcasm]
 
mikea said:
Isn't a treadmill stress test required at some age?

What other test would want? Time travel to verify your death date?
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The husband of one of my wife's good friends - forty something - did the stress test and passed with no problems noted. Three days later he died of a heart attack in the middle of the night - his wife thought he was having a nightmare and didn't realize until the morning that he was dead.
 
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