Winter Storm 2009

[wsuffa]

Well, my IAD-LAX non-stop for the morning has already canceled. I got 'em to rebook me IAD-DFW-LAX.... they "forced" me onto the DFW-LAX segment (which involved giving me the only available inventory which, aw shucks, is in F).

We'll see if that cancels later tonight.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

OK, here is a symbol I've not seen before on the METARs. Had to look it up.

So, what exactly are Ice Needles?

P.S.--It's COLD out there. Cars are getting a coating of ice, now.

 

[ScottM]

Still snowing in St. Louis. The trucks are falling behind and I am seeing very few cars on the expressway. I'll bet school is canceled again for tomorrow.

 

[Skip Miller]

So, what exactly are Ice Needles?

Google to the rescue! -Skip

http://en.mimi.hu/meteorology/ice_needles.html

 

[flyersfan31]

OK, here is a symbol I've not seen before on the METARs. Had to look it up.

So, what exactly are Ice Needles?

P.S.--It's COLD out there. Cars are getting a coating of ice, now.

Well I'll tell you what -- they don't sound good, that's for sure!!

 

[bbchien]

"Missed us by THAT much!" (Peoria, IL)

 

[Diana]

Things are looking tough for folks in Arkansas. I wonder how long before Chip gets power back. Looks like Dallas is getting ice now, too. Y'all be safe.

 

[kevin47881]

They're now calling for more ice tonight with about 2" of snow on top of that. Should make for an interesting commute in the morning.

Note to my neighbors to the west...stay safe and warm. Diana, have you tried reaching Chip by cell?

 

[Diana]

Diana, have you tried reaching Chip by cell?

Got a text message from him early this afternoon. He doesn't have a generator, so he might be conserving his cell phone battery.

This brings back memories of a year ago. A week without power. Tree limbs everywhere with no end in sight. The water boil order. The nights were the hardest.

 

[tonycondon]

This brings back memories of a year ago. A week without power. Tree limbs everywhere with no end in sight. The water boil order. The nights were the hardest.

but dont forget the cookies!

 

[Diana]

but dont forget the cookies!

We LOVED the cookies! What a wonderful surprise! And the note about picking up sticks was so appropriate.

I bet Chip would like cookies, except he's been faithful to his healthy diet for a long time now.

 

[tonycondon]

We LOVED the cookies! What a wonderful surprise! And the note about picking up sticks was so appropriate.

I bet Chip would like cookies, except he's been faithful to his healthy diet for a long time now.

yea, i sent him cookies once, but that was before he went healthy.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Looks like Dallas is getting ice now, too. Y'all be safe.

Yup, just scraped 3/8" off my windshield in north Fort Worth in order to get my sister-in-law to work. Fortunately, she works very close by--the freezing rain was just coming down too hard to ask her to walk in it.

 

[Ted]

Last night saw about 3" of snow at my house. Light stuff. Throw the truck into 4x4 and up the driveway I went. Kinda messy on the way to work, but not too bad.

I'd rather still be in bed.

 

[GMascelli]

Last night saw about 3" of snow at my house. Light stuff. Throw the truck into 4x4 and up the driveway I went. Kinda messy on the way to work, but not too bad. I'd rather still be in bed.

Liberal leave day for all non-essential employees I love my job!!
I'm home! I just finnished the driveway and our neighbors, now headed to Mary's parents to dig them out. I love my little snow blower.....

 

[Kaye]

Folks with garages.......you suck!!!!!!!

 

[SCCutler]

Cars encrusted with 3/4" thick ice. Hardest part is getting doors opened. Really.

 

[mikea]

Cars encrusted with 3/4" thick ice. Hardest part is getting doors opened. Really.

Welcome to our world. Be grateful you don't have a 30 sq. ft. windshield.

Just be very careful that you don't come off the front porch steps like that "agony of defeat" ski jumper.

I spotted a cheap Chinese 3000 watt gas generator at HOBO for $295. Very tempted. I paid $90-something just to rent one for a day.

Then again, a good John Deere generator is in the $600 range at Lowes.

We only got a dusting of maybe an inch of snow. It all went south for once.

 

[SCCutler]

Drove to work.

Nothing like the roads with all those nimrods who seem to believe that slow=safe. No, slow=slow; stupid driver tricks at slow speed simply mean that you hit stuff in slow-mo, which I guess is better than hitting stuff fast, but I still prefer simply not hitting stuff at all.

So my biggest challenge was getting past all these idiots, who seem to clump-up in little herds of Lexus-driving morons, so I could drive at a reasonable pace, in the clear, and actually arrive at my destination.

Simple physics carries you a long way; sadly, most of the folks out there never bothered to learn any simple physics.

Also, ABS is a remarkable invention, and I think very few people understand how it works in modern cars. Don't stab at your brakes, on and off, just press the pedal and watch the magic happen.

 

[inav8r]

Here's what my driveway looked like this morning before I left for work. The kids are at home as we speak shoveling this mess... Thank goodness for the kids desire to earn some extra spending cash!!

 

[sba55]

Spike, thanks for that excellent summary. I couldn't agree more; people here start slowing down even when it's just raining a bit. ABS, what's that is their moto.

 

[Ted]

Yeah, people all forget to drive around here, too. I can understand it a bit better in Dallas where they don't get this weather often, but here in Pennsylvania? C'mon, people, we get snow like this a bunch of times a year. It's nothing new.

ABS, even in modern cars, is nowhere near perfect. I've yet to find an ABS system that can outperform me with a conventional braking system. I'd rather have it removed from my vehicles, but unfortunately that's not really an option these days. Same goes for traction control - I've normally had to disable it because it annoys me. It also is programmed for certain situations which, if they aren't the same as the situation you're in, leads to less than stellar performance.

That said, both are great for most drivers. The biggest problems people have with ABS and traction control are:

1) They don't understand how the systems work and thus don't understand how to work with them while driving. I can't tell you how many times people have started screaming when the brake pedal starts pushing back at them.

2) They don't realize that the laws of physics still apply, and you still don't have traction just because you have this fancy system in your car. You can lock up your wheels and enter a spin with ABS on snow/ice. My mom did it on the '98 Volvo when we'd had it for 6 months - totaled it.

Same goes for four wheel drive (or, as one person I used to know called it, "Four more ways to get stuck"). 4x4, now that is pretty nifty when used properly.

 

[wabower]

People in TX seem to think that since a 4X will get them going it will also get them stopped. Oh that it were so. We grew up knowing that a 4X will get you stuck 50 yards farther from the house than a 2X.

Yeah, people all forget to drive around here, too. I can understand it a bit better in Dallas where they don't get this weather often, but here in Pennsylvania? C'mon, people, we get snow like this a bunch of times a year. It's nothing new.

ABS, even in modern cars, is nowhere near perfect. I've yet to find an ABS system that can outperform me with a conventional braking system. I'd rather have it removed from my vehicles, but unfortunately that's not really an option these days. Same goes for traction control - I've normally had to disable it because it annoys me. It also is programmed for certain situations which, if they aren't the same as the situation you're in, leads to less than stellar performance.

That said, both are great for most drivers. The biggest problems people have with ABS and traction control are:

1) They don't understand how the systems work and thus don't understand how to work with them while driving. I can't tell you how many times people have started screaming when the brake pedal starts pushing back at them.

2) They don't realize that the laws of physics still apply, and you still don't have traction just because you have this fancy system in your car. You can lock up your wheels and enter a spin with ABS on snow/ice. My mom did it on the '98 Volvo when we'd had it for 6 months - totaled it.

Same goes for four wheel drive (or, as one person I used to know called it, "Four more ways to get stuck"). 4x4, now that is pretty nifty when used properly.

 

[jlwilson]

Northwest AR is pretty much closed down. Boone County (HRO) power went out yesterday morning and is still down as far as I know. Carroll county (just west of Boone) had power off and on, but mostly off. Luckily we're at our ranch outside of Clarksville, TX, but our primary residence is outside of Berryville, AR. I'm going to try to drive home tomorrow to check on things. Haven't heard from my step-son today but he said he had to go outside yesterday and shoot buckshot at some of his trees that had limbs threatening to crash down on his house. Luckily he has a generator so keeping the grandkids warm isn't a problem. We had an ice storm in 2001 that I thought was really bad, but apparently this one is much worse. I'll take 20 inches of snow any day over 1/2 inch of ice.

 

[Ted]

People in TX seem to think that since a 4X will get them going it will also get them stopped. Oh that it were so. We grew up knowing that a 4X will get you stuck 50 yards farther from the house than a 2X.

This is why I normally use 4x2 to get stuck and 4x4 to get un-stuck. When you get stuck in 4x4, you're really stuck, and good luck getting out of it. It amazes me how many people question me like I'm insane for driving around in 4x2 in bad weather. "Why aren't you in four wheel drive?!" "Because I don't need it right now. Two wheel drive is fine."

The only real exception I have to this rule is to get up my driveway. It's steep, it has a curve in it, and once I get to the top, I know I can get back down to my garage or head off to work. Oh, and when I drive on my back yard I usually use 4x4 so as to minimize tearing up my grass.

 

[Lawreston]

Thank you, Midwest(and beyond).
At present it's up to 26° but there's about 3" of white stuff on my truck. By the time your gift to the Northeast is reconciled we'll have 8"-12" of the crap; and, perhaps, sleet and freezing rain.

I guess I'd better go to the bottom of the hill and get my mail before it gets too bad.

http://www.terraserver.com/view.asp...32619&mpp=0.75&pic=-1&prov=-1&stac=-1&styp=AD

In the above image you can spot my house/garage just slightly up from bottom center. The house is the building with two white spots(dormers) on the roof. Ironically, the driveway shows in black, but the image was done exactly two months before I bought the property; and the driveway wasn't paved until August of 2008. So it must be shadow detail in the driveway.

Aiieeeeeeeeeee; guess I'd better put on my boots.

HR

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Nothing like the roads with all those nimrods who seem to believe that slow=safe. No, slow=slow; stupid driver tricks at slow speed simply mean that you hit stuff in slow-mo, which I guess is better than hitting stuff fast

Ah, Spike... SlowER is a good thing if there's ice and snow. There is such a thing as too slow - I once spun out in a traffic jam during a snowstorm because I was on a curve and we were going at a much slower speed than the curve was banked for - In fact, I was going *maybe* 1 mph at most, and the rear wheels just let go and slid toward the inside of the curve. I ended up facing the guy who'd been behind me a couple seconds before.

As pilots, we should have better sensations for this sort of thing than most drivers. If you're on a curve in your car and you feel coordinated, you're going at the proper speed for the curve. If you feel like you're slipping, you're going to slow. If you feel like you're skidding, you're going too fast and might *actually* be skidding in short order.

herds of Lexus-driving morons

Simple physics carries you a long way; sadly, most of the folks out there never bothered to learn any simple physics.

Yeah - Makes you wonder why Biology and Chemistry are required in high school but Physics is not (at least, not here). Physics was one of my favorite subjects (2 years in high school, 2 semesters in college), and it has a lot more practical application than Bio or Chem, for things such as driving.

Also, ABS is a remarkable invention, and I think very few people understand how it works in modern cars. Don't stab at your brakes, on and off, just press the pedal and watch the magic happen.

True - But that reminds me of an article I read that was in Car and Driver or one of the other car mags. One of their editors was in a bad accident on slippery roads - His wife ended up with a broken back, IIRC - and the quote I still remember most from that article is "No marvel of technology can possibly create traction where there is none."

Like most things, everything in moderation.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

ABS, even in modern cars, is nowhere near perfect. I've yet to find an ABS system that can outperform me with a conventional braking system.

That's because you know your physics.

ABS is good because your average driver does not have a good grasp of physics and the ABS will outperform them every time.

Same goes for traction control - I've normally had to disable it because it annoys me. It also is programmed for certain situations which, if they aren't the same as the situation you're in, leads to less than stellar performance.

Interesting - I've actually been very happy with the performance of the traction control system in the Volvo.

 

[Ted]

That's because you know your physics.

It does help.

ABS is good because your average driver does not have a good grasp of physics and the ABS will outperform them every time.

Oh yes, that I agree with whole heartedly. The problem with ABS for me is it doesn't have an "OFF" switch. Most of the ABS systems I've found if you just stomp on it and let the ABS do its thing it only works to a certain extent, and in certain situations. Generally it works best on paved roads where certain parts lack traction.

Interesting - I've actually been very happy with the performance of the traction control system in the Volvo.

The traction control on my mom's Volvo S70 was worthless. Her Infiniti was even worse than that. It would just cut power whenever it detected a wheel spinning (which was not uncommon considering the summer tires and open differential). End result was that you would go backwards on an icy hill with it on. I was able to get up these hills (albeit not easily), I just had to turn off the traction control and drive up sideways.

 

[gismo]

Folks with garages.......you suck!!!!!!!

Pretty much everyone I know up here in MN has a garage, although in Minneapolis proper a lot of cars do park on the street. What blows me away is the number of folks in suburbia that have two and three car garages and still park outside because the garages are too full of junk. Mine's got plenty of stuff besides cars in it but there's always room for the cars.

 

[gismo]

That's because you know your physics.

ABS is good because your average driver does not have a good grasp of physics and the ABS will outperform them every time.

It's hard to beat a good ABS on anything but dry pavement or ironically deep gravel or snow (locked wheels dig in and use the pile of material ahead of the tires for additional deceleration). That's partly because (good) ABS can adjust each wheel's braking individually
which is especially beneficial front axel to rear and partly because threshold braking on surfaces with varying friction is a skill very few drivers have.

But then there are the folks who don't use ABS correctly. I'm told that a significant number of drivers simply react to the pedal vibration and noise associated with ABS activation by releasing the brakes. I think I read that Mercedes and/or BMW came out with a system that will override the driver in some circumstances and maintain maximum braking once initiated even if the driver lifts off the pedal.

Interesting - I've actually been very happy with the performance of the traction control system in the Volvo.

The main downside to traction control in normal traffic (vs the track) is that it can severely limit your ability to launch quickly such as when pulling onto a dry highway from a snow covered side street or driveway. I often disable the TCS in my car in such situations, otherwise the system holds the engine back for several seconds at the first sign of wheel slippage, something that can be rather unnerving/annoying if there's traffic bearing down that you should have had room to outrun.

 

[steingar]

I'm one of the weenies driving slow as can be. My little sports car hates snow and ice, has little braking power and no maneuverability. I have to use momentum loss to stop, and that takes a while. I hate ABS; I can do loads better and if I knew how I'd unbolt and chuck it from my car. Doesn't matter now, the little sports car is stuck fast in my garage; we got hit with about a half foot of snow with a good deal of ice to boot. Everything was closed yesterday. The snow in my alley is up past the dams on the car which staying put for the duration.

 

[Ted]

What blows me away is the number of folks in suburbia that have two and three car garages and still park outside because the garages are too full of junk. Mine's got plenty of stuff besides cars in it but there's always room for the cars.

I've not understood this phenomenon. This is one of the things I most love about my house, though. 2.5 car garage, and there's an outside door into the basement. So, the garage can house my truck, car, and motorcycle (although in the summer the truck lives outside because I can't get the motorcycle out with the car in place), and any junk I can easily put in the basement. I actually need to get rid of that junk, though...

 

[Ted]

But then there are the folks who don't use ABS correctly. I'm told that a significant number of drivers simply react to the pedal vibration and noise associated with ABS activation by releasing the brakes. I think I read that Mercedes and/or BMW came out with a system that will override the driver in some circumstances and maintain maximum braking once initiated even if the driver lifts off the pedal.

You're right that a lot of drivers don't react to ABS correctly, and don't just let it do its thing. The problem is, not all ABS systems work great, and not on all kinds of surfaces. Snow especially I have fond is not great. My Excursion WILL lock up wheels on snow and ice (it has ABS that works just fine on dry pavement), and so I need to let up off the brake pedal and hit it again to get better braking or steering. In most cases, it'll lock up the wheels and I just stop having steering and I slide in a straight line down the hill. Not very helpful. Better to put it in 4x4 and lock it in 1st gear and let it idle down the hill.

The point is that if you know the system, know how it works, and know its limitations (as well as your capabilities) you can work well with it.

 

[flyersfan31]

1) They don't understand how the systems work and thus don't understand how to work with them while driving. I can't tell you how many times people have started screaming when the brake pedal starts pushing back at them.

2) They don't realize that the laws of physics still apply, and you still don't have traction just because you have this fancy system in your car. You can lock up your wheels and enter a spin with ABS on snow/ice. My mom did it on the '98 Volvo when we'd had it for 6 months - totaled it.

First car we had with ABS was a '93 Accord. I tested the brakes - man, even though I knew what was coming that pulsating freaked me out. I took my wife out to do the same thing, knowing that she would have no clue what was going on unless she tried it first in controlled conditions. I think most people have NO clue how to use ABS properly.

Don't forget all those folks in the H2s and Tahoes who didn't study physics. 4WD does not mean your octillion ton truck will stop securely - yet they persist in driving fast and tailgating in bad weather because, heck, they've got 4WD.

 

[wsuffa]

Pretty much everyone I know up here in MN has a garage, although in Minneapolis proper a lot of cars do park on the street. What blows me away is the number of folks in suburbia that have two and three car garages and still park outside because the garages are too full of junk. Mine's got plenty of stuff besides cars in it but there's always room for the cars.

My garage doesn't do me a lot of good after an ice storm. The driveway is sloped down to the street.... a 3-4% grade.

Commercial travel yesterday was ugly.

/rant on/
We pushed back from IAD on time. It took over 40 minutes to deice. The first 20 minutes of it, the deice crew was standing next to the truck, talking amongst themselves in what appeared to be non-business, casual conversation. It appeared to be the laziest crew I've ever seen. It then took the next 20 minutes for crew chief (or so his vest said) to explain to line worker how to use the spray nozzle from the bucket - and then to actually deice the plane (about 15 min). In the dozens of times I've been on a commercial flight that was deiced, it took between 15 and 20 minutes start to end.... unless we had to wait in a long line of planes. Yesterday, we were the only one to be deiced and it was company crew/equipment (not contractors).

It was a 15 minute taxi from a west gate over to 19L.

Then we had to wait 20 minutes at DFW for a gate to open. Meaning that my connection was missed. Airline phone agent (platinum) said "they show plane being held for connecting pax". Bullhockey. The gate agent ran away when I asked her to rebook me, so I went to the club - who took care of it in about 60 seconds.

The new connecting flight again closed the door on-time. Then we sat at the gate in the metal tube for 45 minutes. Apparently there was an MX issue in the luggage compartment (they knew about this before boarding) which required epoxy to harden for 15-20 minutes before they could load baggage. They didn't start to load baggage until 25 minutes after they closed the door.... and it took 20 minutes to load.

This is a perfect example of why commercial air travel is disaster.

I understand weather delays. I don't understand laziness nor lack of information. I understand that on-time ratings are related to when the boarding door closes. I don't understand why people should be imprisoned while known maintenance is completed (or at least is close to completion).

/rant off/

 

[mikea]

I'm one of the weenies driving slow as can be. My little sports car hates snow and ice, has little braking power and no maneuverability. I have to use momentum loss to stop, and that takes a while. I hate ABS; I can do loads better and if I knew how I'd unbolt and chuck it from my car. Doesn't matter now, the little sports car is stuck fast in my garage; we got hit with about a half foot of snow with a good deal of ice to boot. Everything was closed yesterday. The snow in my alley is up past the dams on the car which staying put for the duration.

This is why I own 3 cars. The Mustang doesn't even go out if rain is predicted - but then I need to break down and spring for the 3rd set of tires.

I was thinking I could use it in a pinch right, now, but I don't think I'd get very far.

 

[sba55]

Lance, I agree with you.

That said, a human will not be able to outperform a good ABS system. There may be some extremely rare conditions where that's not true, but because ABS can apply brakes to each wheel individually and because it can react much more quickly to changing conditions than we ever could, it will get you stopped much more quickly in 99% of cases. And there's something else people forget: ABS doesn't just get you stopped more quickly. It also allows you to steer and avoid obstacles under maximum braking.

How I know this - I worked on a project with the largest ABS maker in the world. I saw some of the testing they do in Sweden with professional race drivers. ABS consistenly bear them by by a significant margin. All this assumes, of course, that you have a car with a good braking system. Many domestic products use 1980s technology and 1950s suspension.

 

[Ted]

Don't forget all those folks in the H2s and Tahoes who didn't study physics. 4WD does not mean your octillion ton truck will stop securely - yet they persist in driving fast and tailgating in bad weather because, heck, they've got 4WD.

Yep... I have found 4WD to be the most misused/misunderstood feature on any vehicle.

 

[SCCutler]

Ah, Spike...

(lots of stuff)

...Like most things, everything in moderation.

Like I said.

Point is, simply driving slowly (especially, as these yutzes were doing, in echelon formation with other slugs) is not, de facto safe. Clumping-up, especially in icy conditions, is significantly less safe.

---

As for traction control, I have had mixed results. My Caddy, a 2001, has marginally-effective traction control - it will stop wheel-spin when it occurs, but reapplies power without sufficient modulation to effectively use such traction as is available. On newer Cadillacs which I have gotten a loaner vehicles (I recall in particular a recent CTS), the traction control
is so good and so seamless that you can simply floor the gas pedal on an icy road, and the car accelerates smoothly and quietly, with no sensation at all that the TC is doing anything; it just works, and really well.

On CJanes VW, the TC blinks a little light at you, but is little better than my Caddy.