DC-4 Down in Fairbanks

Really **** deal. If there’s any silver lining its that they took off to the south instead of the north, which could have very well ended up in a neighborhood or business.
 
A few articles state that it looks like they tried to land it on the ice and slid it into the bank and treeline. Horrible way to go knowing you’d possibly survive but you have several thousand gallons of fuel in pallet tanks behind you.
 
ARFlyer said:
A few articles state that it looks like they tried to land it on the ice and slid it into the bank and treeline. Horrible way to go knowing you’d possibly survive but you have several thousand gallons of fuel in pallet tanks behind you.
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The video I saw shows a complete, immediate loss of control following a catastrophic engine failure. It went in at about a 90°bank angle.
 
I don't know of any video but I know that when I flew the DC-6 you had 2 attempts to put out an engine fire, the engine MUST be feathered before deploying the fire extinguishing agent, you had 2 tries......then about 4 minutes untill the spar failed.
 
Any one have a N number, I was part owner in two different ones.
 
It was one of Alaska Air Fuel's in Wasilla, Alaska.
 
ARFlyer said:
He’s right I just found it on Reddit.

NSFW: https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/s/GG2AVyX4RL

Looks like the #2 exploded and it rolled over.
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That is…very shocking.

RIP to the crew. I don’t think there was much of anything they could have done. That motor literally exploded. What could even cause an explosion that violent on a radial? That fireball was as big as the plane.
 
DavidWhite said:
That is…very shocking.

RIP to the crew. I don’t think there was much of anything they could have done. That motor literally exploded. What could even cause an explosion that violent on a radial? That fireball was as big as the plane.
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I hate armchair quarterbacking.....but perhaps a wing spar failure at the engine, however not a complete wing seperation? If a DC-4's like a DC-6 you only have so long to put that fire out before the spar fails. Look up Northern Air Cargo's incident near Russian Mission, AK.
 
That's horrible. I thought the word "explosion" might be an exaggeration, but that looks like an explosion to me. Fuel leak that resulted in an explosive air/fuel mix between the engine and cowling?
 
RadialGal said:
I hate armchair quarterbacking.....but perhaps a wing spar failure at the engine, however not a complete wing seperation? If a DC-4's like a DC-6 you only have so long to put that fire out before the spar fails. Look up Northern Air Cargo's incident near Russian Mission, AK.
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Just for the sake of your statement: that doesn’t strike me as armchair quarterbacking, as in “what I would have done” or “what I think they were doing.”

In general, I don’t think it’s a bad thing for subject matter experts to lend insight into possible failure modes. God knows there are enough of them. We all can come away with a broader understanding out of conversations stemming from expertise, even if it’s not “the thing.”
 
RadialGal said:
I hate armchair quarterbacking.....but perhaps a wing spar failure at the engine, however not a complete wing seperation? If a DC-4's like a DC-6 you only have so long to put that fire out before the spar fails. Look up Northern Air Cargo's incident near Russian Mission, AK.
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Armchair quarterbacking on aviation forums I think is not always a bad thing. Speculations and guesses on what happened can lead to better ADM from those that read them. If I ever die in an accident, please dissect it. Guess and speculate. If one person benefits someday from that and makes a decision in the heat of the moment that saves him/her, I will rest easier.
 
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DavidWhite said:
What could even cause an explosion that violent on a radial?
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Supercharger failure, master rod failure, etc. Lots of mass in one plane of motion if the wrong piece breaks at wrong time. Hopefully the pieces can be recovered. And if engine grenades a certain way can also catch flight controls but dont know if case here.
Sad. Saw that plane a number of times and knew some of the crews.
 
luvflyin said:
Armchair quarterbacking on aviation forums I think is not a bad thing.
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It sure can be a bad thing. For instance, there is a constant stream of stories about electrical system problems on owner's airplanes, and the armchair quarterbacks reveal their lack of knowledge of the systems by guessing that the battery is probably bad and needs replacing. The truth is that there are dozens of places that can cause hassles, and battery replacement just becomes the first round of many frustrating attempts in throwing money at the problem until it goes away.
 
Could be the explosion took out some flight controls. Looked like the left aileron might have departed. Nothing the crew could have done. RIP
 
It's always hard to see loss of control mishaps where the crew had no chance of recovery and the aircraft hits and explodes. All crashes are violent and horrible, but when fate dictates the event, it seems unfair.

Rest easy, aviators. You gave it your best.
 
Dan Thomas said:
It sure can be a bad thing. For instance, there is a constant stream of stories about electrical system problems on owner's airplanes, and the armchair quarterbacks reveal their lack of knowledge of the systems by guessing that the battery is probably bad and needs replacing. The truth is that there are dozens of places that can cause hassles, and battery replacement just becomes the first round of many frustrating attempts in throwing money at the problem until it goes away.
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That sounds like something that would be in the Maintenance Bay forum. Not Aviation Mishaps
 
luvflyin said:
That sounds like something that would be in the Maintenance Bay forum. Not Aviation Mishaps
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Same thing everywhere. Most are guessing at what failed without knowing the systems or structure or anything else about the airplane.

Flying Keys said:
In general, I don’t think it’s a bad thing for subject matter experts to lend insight into possible failure modes. God knows there are enough of them. We all can come away with a broader understanding out of conversations stemming from expertise, even if it’s not “the thing.”
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That there, with the key phrase being "I don’t think it’s a bad thing for subject matter experts to lend insight into possible failure modes." How many subject matter experts are here? Pilots or mechanics with DC-4 experience that could easily explain what might have happened?
 
Dan Thomas said:
Same thing everywhere. Most are guessing at what failed without knowing the systems or structure or anything else about the airplane.


That there, with the key phrase being "I don’t think it’s a bad thing for subject matter experts to lend insight into possible failure modes." How many subject matter experts are here? Pilots or mechanics with DC-4 experience that could easily explain what might have happened?
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Sometimes it’s just a matter of collecting some facts. Maybe it’s weather, maybe it’s a video, etc. It sure cuts through the chaff when there is at least a little evidence. Non-pilots tend to not know where to look (except videos, obviously) and definitely don’t have the ability to exclude so many nonsense possibilities that are thrown out there.

Just about any certificated pilot can be an SME as to regular pilot things we see from the public data. Things like: ”that was a really steep descent/bank angle. That looked like a spin. Turbulence is normal. Ice is bad. That airport doesn’t have a control tower. The ADS-B ground track did not align with the instrument approach” Sometimes those observations are debatable, but we usually discuss it out.

Then you can get deeper into things for which there truly are SME’s here. Deeper weather analysis. Things like knowledge specific to aircraft. Deep understanding of ADS-B data architecture. Local knowledge of geography and airport ops. Understanding of instrument flying. General, instructional-level knowledge. You’re not going to find as much deeply-rooted experience and knowledge outside of hard-core aviation forums.

Point is, you don’t necessarily have to be an SME in exactly one area to connect certain dots. But even the dots that turn out to lead nowhere get us all thinking about those particular dots, anyway. It doesn’t hurt anything to imagine yourself in any kind of situation. And so that others go before us allows us to maybe not encounter that situation ourselves.

But nobody’s relying on us for our findings, anyway. It’s just a bunch of shop talk where we mostly weed out the incorrect discussion elements that range from simple errors to maliciousness. More often than not, what makes it through to deeper discussion ends up being fairly close to what the NTSB finds. You can’t tell me there are a lot of surprising finds for the majority of accidents that seem pretty obvious (to pilots) from the outset. just a few details that tie it together.

Like the Piper that went down in Muncie. Nobody purports to know why it was so off course and why the pilot elected to do 360s over the airport (and we may never know). But we know *that* it was off course and can think of some reasons that *might* have been the case. In doing so, we put ourselves in those shoes, preparing ourselves so that we don’t similarly end up on this forum. If I do, I wholeheartedly hope the discussion will be fruitful.
 
Dan Thomas said:
That there, with the key phrase being "I don’t think it’s a bad thing for subject matter experts to lend insight into possible failure modes." How many subject matter experts are here? Pilots or mechanics with DC-4 experience that could easily explain what might have happened?
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Humans are curious creatures and it’s a bad thing when we stop being curious. As much as some accidents bring out the obvious dufus or 10 on a thread, even that may not be a bad thing if said dufus gets appropriately smacked down and educated.

Of course, there will always be some who can’t put the dots together and learn, and will likely go on to their own tragic end, but even that can be useful in telegraphing others that they are a pilot not to fly with, or whatever. Free speech has the positive effect of exposing idiots.
 
RyanShort1 said:
As much as some accidents bring out the obvious dufus or 10 on a thread, even that may not be a bad thing if said dufus gets appropriately smacked down and educated.

Of course, there will always be some who can’t put the dots together and learn, and will likely go on to their own tragic end, but even that can be useful in telegraphing others that they are a pilot not to fly with, or whatever. Free speech has the positive effect of exposing idiots.
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Keep in mind that many here (myself included) are relative novices, using this forum to learn. Many of the off-target responses will thus be based in lack of understanding rather than idiocy.

Remember: Ignorance is curable through education, while stupidity is ultimately terminal. Discerning the difference is a crucial skill.
 
Watching that clip made me sick to my stomach. The aircrew didn’t stand a chance.

Condolences and best wishes to their families.
 
RyanShort1 said:
As much as some accidents bring out the obvious dufus or 10 on a thread, even that may not be a bad thing if said dufus gets appropriately smacked down and educated.
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That only works if it's not other dufii doing the smacking and 'educating.'

Nauga,
and a half-facts SME
 
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