Thanks a lot, Ukraine

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JVerb

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JVerb
How long til TSA comes for us in the GA world? We've avoided the security theater for the most part, but things like this hit to the heart of the GA argument that the planes are too small to be weaponized.

www.forbes.com

Ukraine Packed A Cessna-Style Plane With Explosives, Added Remote Controls And Kamikaze’d It Into A Russian Drone Factory 600 Miles Away

Ukraine seems to have fitted Cessna-style planes with remote controls, packed them with TNT & flown one 600 miles to strike a drone factory in Yelabuga, east of Moscow.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
JVerb said:
How long til TSA comes for us in the GA world? We've avoided the security theater for the most part, but things like this hit to the heart of the GA argument that the planes are too small to be weaponized.

www.forbes.com

Ukraine Packed A Cessna-Style Plane With Explosives, Added Remote Controls And Kamikaze’d It Into A Russian Drone Factory 600 Miles Away

Ukraine seems to have fitted Cessna-style planes with remote controls, packed them with TNT & flown one 600 miles to strike a drone factory in Yelabuga, east of Moscow.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
Click to expand...

It's OK, we have to have ADS-B, so we're safe from any of this.

After watching the clip of it crashing, I don't think this really puts anything on the radar - so to speak.
 
Not worried.

IIRC, someone once brought down a federal building with a van packed full of fertilizer and fuel oil, but so far there’s not a lot of government scrutiny of vans, and we don’t (yet) need a background check to purchase fertilizer.
 
Proving the theory of there being nothing new under the sun, between Frank Corder and Joe Stack, there’s ‘justification’ enough if DHS wanted to try, but there ain’t a budget big enough to put a TSA body at every airport with an asphalt runway, much less grass strip and helipad to even attempt to enforce something like suggested by OP.
 
Half Fast said:
Not worried.

IIRC, someone once brought down a federal building with a van packed full of fertilizer and fuel oil, but so far there’s not a lot of government scrutiny of vans, and we don’t (yet) need a background check to purchase fertilizer.
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Been a long time since OKC. Long before DHS and TSA existed. TSA has been spotted in freaking train stations in recent years; they'll set up shop anywhere.
 
TCABM said:
Proving the theory of there being nothing new under the sun, between Frank Corder and Joe Stack, there’s ‘justification’ enough if DHS wanted to try, but there ain’t a budget big enough to put a TSA body at every airport with an asphalt runway, much less grass strip and helipad to even attempt to enforce something like suggested by OP.
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I'm more concerned of security theater by clamping down access of private vehicles/people easily through FBOs and unlocked gates at GA airports.
 
How would TSA making me take off my shoes and belt have any effect on what I do with my plane?

Why worry about “weaponizing” a 172 in a country where citizens have a right to own weapons and where private citizens can and do own warbirds, including supersonic jets?
 
Half Fast said:
Not worried.

IIRC, someone once brought down a federal building with a van packed full of fertilizer and fuel oil, but so far there’s not a lot of government scrutiny of vans, and we don’t (yet) need a background check to purchase fertilizer.
Click to expand...
I think CISA is in charge of that particular product and does require some purchaser information to be registered for ammonium nitrate or fertilizers with high concentration of AN. I don't remember if there was a restriction on volume of purchases or what.
 
I hate to say it but it didn't happen in the US so I doubt anyone here will pay much attention to it.

The big thing I thought we'd be seeing by now is people attaching small explosive devices- like pipe bomb/grenade sized things to consumer drones. Fortunately it doesn't seem to be a thing.
 
Half Fast said:
How would TSA making me take off my shoes and belt have any effect on what I do with my plane?

Why worry about “weaponizing” a 172 in a country where citizens have a right to own weapons and where private citizens can and do own warbirds, including supersonic jets?
Click to expand...
Last time I went through TSA screening to get to a private airplane, I had the following conversation:

TSA screener, as my passenger empties his pockets, “Captain, your passenger has a pocket knife. Is that OK?”

Me, “Mine’s bigger.”
 
Sounds like I get to update my business cards and can now call myself a fighter pilot.
Cessna loaded with explosives - callsign Leroy Jenkins?
 
MauleSkinner said:
Last time I went through TSA screening to get to a private airplane, I had the following conversation:

TSA screener, as my passenger empties his pockets, “Captain, your passenger has a pocket knife. Is that OK?”

Me, “Mine’s bigger.”
Click to expand...

I'd likely reply, "A knife? Why doesn't he have his gun?"
 
cowman said:
I hate to say it but it didn't happen in the US so I doubt anyone here will pay much attention to it.

The big thing I thought we'd be seeing by now is people attaching small explosive devices- like pipe bomb/grenade sized things to consumer drones. Fortunately it doesn't seem to be a thing.
Click to expand...
Not here, yet, but it is a big thing in Ukraine, on both sides. The only reason Russia is manufacturing drones is because they can't order enough commercial Chinese ones off Amazon to fill their needs.

This video is an interview of a couple mercs that were working in Ukraine. Towards the end they get in to drone warfare, and how it is changing modern combat.

 
cowman said:
I hate to say it but it didn't happen in the US so I doubt anyone here will pay much attention to it.

The big thing I thought we'd be seeing by now is people attaching small explosive devices- like pipe bomb/grenade sized things to consumer drones. Fortunately it doesn't seem to be a thing.
Click to expand...
Ssshhh! All the terrorist that came across the southern border are listening.
 
Some of y’all might remember that a guy down in Austin went kamikaze on the IRS with his Cherokee with spectacularly underwhelming results…

Man crashes plane into Texas tax building | US news | The Guardian

<p>Joseph Stack published rambling suicide manifesto before piloting single-seater into IRS's Austin office</p>
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com

I think DHS knows that light planes aren’t as fearsome as people make them out to be.
 
Compared to the really impressive damage they've dealt with cheap, commercial off-the-shelf drones, a Cessna packed with explosives is nothing.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Some of y’all might remember that a guy down in Austin went kamikaze on the IRS with his Cherokee with spectacularly underwhelming results…

Man crashes plane into Texas tax building | US news | The Guardian

<p>Joseph Stack published rambling suicide manifesto before piloting single-seater into IRS's Austin office</p>
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com

I think DHS knows that light planes aren’t as fearsome as people make them out to be.
Click to expand...
Or before that a troubled teenager crashed a stolen Cessna into a Tampa Office building in 2002, leaving a note claiming solidarity with OBL.

2002 Tampa Cessna 172 crash
 
dmspilot said:
I find this thread utterly tone-deaf.
Click to expand...

"Ukraine is fighting for their survival and Russian-owned members of foreign governments are denying them the weapons they need, forcing improvisation. But I'm the real victim because I think events might make my use of my private airplane slightly less convenient!"
 
Katamarino said:
"Ukraine is fighting for their survival and Russian-owned members of foreign governments are denying them the weapons they need, forcing improvisation. But I'm the real victim because I think events might make my use of my private airplane slightly less convenient!"
Click to expand...
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
 
DJTorrente said:
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
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I'm really not sure what you're getting at with this.

I'm going to assume you're arguing in favour of Ukraine maintaining their liberty.
 
Katamarino said:
I'm really not sure what you're getting at with this.

I'm going to assume you're arguing in favour of Ukraine maintaining their liberty.
Click to expand...
I'm saying that, contra your sarcastic dismissive tone, it is not trivial to discuss protecting our liberty to travel by air.
 
cowman said:
The big thing I thought we'd be seeing by now is people attaching small explosive devices- like pipe bomb/grenade sized things to consumer drones. Fortunately it doesn't seem to be a thing.
Click to expand...
Somehow, the YouTube algorithm decided to divert my feed of interesting RC planes, to interesting RC planes with little servo run cargo doors that open so full size 3D printed hand grenades filled with talcum powder can fall out.

Never click on the first one, or YouTube will make the rest of your feed look like that.
 
I was dismissive for three reasons.

1) As stated multiple times on this thread already, previous stupid acts with light aircraft have resulted in literally zero new controls.

2) There is absolutely no evidence that use of a light aircraft in a war in Europe is going to cause any new controls in the US.

3) The implication that Ukraine should refrain from certain methods of defending themselves, in case it inconveniences wealthy Americans, is ridiculous and self centered beyond belief.
 
Katamarino said:
I was dismissive for three reasons.

1) As stated multiple times on this thread already, previous stupid acts with light aircraft have resulted in literally zero new controls.

2) There is absolutely no evidence that use of a light aircraft in a war in Europe is going to cause any new controls in the US.

3) The implication that Ukraine should refrain from certain methods of defending themselves, in case it inconveniences wealthy Americans, is ridiculous and self centered beyond belief.
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If you recall, Homeland Security came dangerously close to implementing much of the TSA commercial controls in GA after "the event", until they were talked off the ledge. We ended up with ADS-B, scattershot airport badges, and partially fenced airports instead.

And commercial was significantly affected by the shoe bomber, and one internet chat group talking about bringing aboard binary liquid explosives.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
If you recall, Homeland Security came dangerously close to implementing much of the TSA commercial controls in GA after "the event", until they were talked off the ledge. We ended up with ADS-B, scattershot airport badges, and partially fenced airports instead.
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting that this instance is comparable to "the event", for the US?
 
Katamarino said:
Are you suggesting that this instance is comparable to "the event", for the US?
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Nope. But per my edit, how many times do your take your shoes off or pull bottles of spring water out of your bag because of events that didn't happen, either.

I don't trust some random bureaucrat to decide to make a delusional career enhancing proposal that gets amplified in the media to "keep us safe".
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
Cessna packed with explosives is nothing.
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And the likelihood of a person with sufficient intelligence and motivation to learn to fly while still being stupid enough to think deliberately crashing it and dying in the process is vanishingly small, especially now that flight schools know to watch out for people who only want to learn to fly but don't care about landing.
ElPaso Pilot said:
Never click on the first one, or YouTube will make the rest of your feed look like that.
Click to expand...
Now all you have to do is leave your mouse pointer over the video and YT thinks you've watched it. Fortunately you can go into your YT history and delete anything you've watched out of curiosity or by accident, which will keep it from recommending similar videos.
 
JMHO
The use of GA aircraft as radio controlled drones could be the death knell of freedom to fly in the US of A.
A few years ago some alleged terrorists were "caught" trying to put explosives in a RC model plane.
(I think the entire event was a put up job by the government.)

Now, it is illegal to fly a model plane over 2.5 ounces unless you are in an authorized area (FRIA) or you have the model plane version of ADSB out installed in your model.
Where I used to carry a model in the trunk of my car and go fly at hundreds of fields in my area, including my back yard and the farm next door, I am now a criminal if I take it out and fly it anywhere but my RC club's officially authorized site.

Now, it's GA's turn.
 
Shepherd said:
JMHO
The use of GA aircraft as radio controlled drones could be the death knell of freedom to fly in the US of A.
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Not if we stay calm, act rationally, engage in non-conspiratorial behavior and maintain good PR, and use the peaceful tools the Founders gave us to maintain our freedoms. Y'all need to stop living in fear, because that isn't good PR, guaranteed.
 
I, for one am shocked that people on an aviation discussion forum would be discussing news and only focusing on potential implications to aviation.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Not if we stay calm, act rationally, engage in non-conspiratorial behavior and maintain good PR, and use the peaceful tools the Founders gave us to maintain our freedoms. Y'all need to stop living in fear, because that isn't good PR, guaranteed.
Click to expand...
Yeah. That's worked wonders since never.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Not if we stay calm, act rationally, engage in non-conspiratorial behavior and maintain good PR, and use the peaceful tools the Founders gave us to maintain our freedoms. Y'all need to stop living in fear, because that isn't good PR, guaranteed.
Click to expand...

expecting pilots to act rationally (it's rational to buy a small airplane?), not think of conspiracies, and maintain good PR.... lol

if you know what I mean...
 
Shepherd said:
Yeah. That's worked wonders since never.
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Really?

Really?
Bob Noel said:
expecting pilots to act rationally (it's rational to buy a small airplane?), not think of conspiracies, and maintain good PR.... lol

if you know what I mean...
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We should try it! I'm more worried about what the general public thinks of small aircraft than I am about some Senator in DC that probably flies around on a jet. They KNOW that aviation is useful, but they will react to the masses calls for restrictions if they can carve out an exception for themselves.
 
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