No, not really. A little steep for a short while, but not too fast considering where they touched down. I wonder what the instructor in the right hand seat was doing though. Daydreaming? Still believe you are underestimating the slope that runway has. He would probably have needed some power to get up to the apron. Here is a guy touching down a little too early, same Altiport.
V-Tail gear-up at DVT
- Thread starter Rgbeard
- Start date
No, not really. A little steep for a short while, but not too fast considering where they touched down. I wonder what the instructor in the right hand seat was doing though. Daydreaming? Still believe you are underestimating the slope that runway has. He would probably have needed some power to get up to the apron. Here is a guy touching down a little too early, same Altiport.
Steve Costello
Pre-takeoff checklist
Same here, minus the hand slapping. Ken Kellogg (RIP, sir) was as old school as they come (worked for Beech for a long time, flying Twin Beeches and a bunch of other fun stuff). He drilled it into me to do no configuration changes unless we were either stopped, off the runway, or slowed down enough that we had the luxury of configuring without rushing (helps that KCPS has a nice long main runway). While it didn't matter as much in a 172, that lesson definitely carries forward once one starts flying retractables.
Tantalum
Final Approach
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San_Diego_Pilot
Maybe. Still doesn't look right to me. Maybe it's the different site picture? I've flown into and out of a share of mountainous, high altitude, sloped, etc., runways and it didn't look stable to me.
RE: gear.. that video has been around for at least 10.. maybe 15 years. From another forum when this video made the rounds.. someone who knows French
"
the copilot says:" you didn't lower the gear?" to which the pilot responds:"Fu.., I forgot. I was wondering why we were coming in so fast.."
and he goes on to say:" that's messed up!"
"
wondering why we were coming in so fast... it never looked right to me
Tantalum
Final Approach
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San_Diego_Pilot
genuine question - not snark. Do you typically land with max breaking? Or are you based at a sub 3K runway? My training and all the CFIs I've flown with over the last 20 ish years were strict about not touching stuff until clear of the runway - with the one exception being short field or when brakes are needed. They all had some story about various Bonanza people who geared up halfway down the runway on roll out.
These planes were also mostly owned or managed by the CFI and they didn't like paying for brakes and bald spots so we usually just coasted to the end. By the time you touch down you're going.. maybe 50 knots? Doesn't take much more than 2K feet to coast to a near stop
Half Fast
Touchdown! Greaser!
Sometimes I coast without braking but I'm based at a busy field. Often if I don't brake enough to use the first or second exit I'm forcing someone to go around or someone waiting to depart to forgo a takeoff opportunity.
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
First plane I learned in was on a 4500 runway in a plane owned by the instructor.
Next school I used would have been a 12,000 runway most of the time. I think the second runway was over 5,000 feet.
Both schools taught me that way.
Both are fairly busy airports, if that matters.
Randomskylane
Line Up and Wait
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Yup, also brake immediately because if there’s a brake problem you have more time to do something like open doors and swerve
2500 with short obstacles
Half Fast
Touchdown! Greaser!
Same here. My CFIs taught me to at least tap the brakes right away to make sure they are working even if I intend to roll the entire runway length.
John Collins
En-Route
In a Bonanza, maximum braking is achieved by first letting the nose wheel contact the runway and using light braking while pulling the yoke to the rear stop. One must apply sufficient additional braking to keep the nose down while moving the yoke to the rear stop. Then you can apply maximum braking. The brakes are very strong and will easily stop the wheel rotation and you will create a flat spot on the tire unless you are simultaneously holding the yoke at the full rear stop. It takes some practice to learn the technique because if you don't keep sufficient braking to keep the nose down, you will unload the wheels and risk lifting off or causing a flat spot and a possible blow out. Once the yoke is at the rear stop, substantially more braking can be applied. Braking force is based on the down force applied to the wheels and the more you can force the tires into the runway, the more braking. The braking force of a rolling tire is proportional to the down force on the tire. We used to teach retracting the flaps on touchdown and it does improve the braking, but risks unintentionally retracting the landing gear.
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
I’m sorry, but there are several things about that post that make no sense whatsoever.
John Collins
En-Route
I may not have been clear, but you haven't said what does not make sense. If you do a constructive comment, I will try and explain what I meant.
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
I’ve got a bunch going on right now but the ones I remember…. Having the nose wheel come up a bit isn’t going to reduce your braking. Having more weight back on the main gear will help. And if you lift back off then you are doing something very wrong.
Half Fast
Touchdown! Greaser!
True. But if it comes up, you can add more braking until it rotates back down. Then you can add more elevator until it comes back up a little. Then more brake until it goes down a smidge. And so on and so on....
Maximum braking would be the right combination of brakes and elevator so that the nose wheel is kept just barely off the runway, increasing both until you run out of elevator.
John Collins
En-Route
Actually having the nose wheel coming up while braking will substantially reduce your braking power because the wings will produce more lift and reduce the load on the main wheels and almost any application of braking will cause the wheels to stop rotating and generate a flat spot or blow out. Lifting off will be inevitable if the speed is at or near the stall speed (even below stall because of ground effect) and you bring the yoke to the full rear position and don't have sufficient braking. It is a balancing act and easily demonstrated.
John Collins
En-Route
My experience is that if just sufficient deceleration is generated while you are braking, the nose will be forced down (at least on a Bonanza) and the strut will compress a fair amount to generate a slightly nose low angle. With normal strut inflation, the Bonanza sits at about a 3 degree pitch up angle for the wing and with a depressed nose strut this drops the wing closer to level. Keeping the nose down definitely helps with braking effectiveness.
Justin Brady
Pre-takeoff checklist
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SONIC
In my Debonair the best braking I can get (just from my experience) is to touch down, push the nose down until slow enough to not lift back off (while braking) and then pull full rear elevator pressure while mashing the brakes.
Without the elevator pressure the weight transfers to the nose wheel and you lose weight on the mains and braking effectiveness.
The trick is figuring out the timing so you don't just wheelie down the runway.
Without the elevator pressure the weight transfers to the nose wheel and you lose weight on the mains and braking effectiveness.
The trick is figuring out the timing so you don't just wheelie down the runway.
Captain Sweet T
Pre-Flight
Let me just say....it can happen to ANYONE. A few weeks ago I was asked by the tower to extend down wind. For some strange reason I "didn't" follow my usual routine of putting the gear down mid-field. I thought, I'll put the gear down on base. When base came tower was on me for looking for traffic and I was now number three. I got busy looking for traffic and didn't do the gumps check....turned final....and again more traffic to deal with and my elec trim was acting up. I somehow got flaps in.....and it wasn't slowing normally.....still no gumps.... Hmmmm. Fortunately the taxiway turn offs were closed for construction and I was planning on landing long. As I crossed the numbers about 100 ft high....I hear....."check gear...check gear". That's when arms and legs went flying and the gear came down....and we performed a go around.
Never did I think I could even do that....cause I thought my "routine" was imprinted well....but it did. No metal was bent and we will fly another day....but, with a bit more humility.
Gear always goes down BEFORE you get in the pattern. no excuses, no mistakes. it's a pretty simple equation/routine. this negates the "when it it happens" talk all the non complex guys like to boast about on POA...so sick of hearing about that bs from guys who never even flown a retract
I like that policy too. My general rule is(within reason), the first time I think about extending the gear may be the last time. So that is when I extend it(if within limits). I tend to say to myself multiple times on final….”Gear’s down, prop’s fine”.
I used to fly into Boeing Field in a Mooney from the west on the Vashon arrival which involved multiple stepdowns under class B and difficult navigation to find the airport because it is in a valley. One has to get super low over the houses on the ridge west of the airport and it is busy with lots of mixed traffic to look for and parallel runways. I put my gear down way back before the shoreline, did the checklist and then focused. On an annual checkout with an instructor, he wasn’t happy because he said that he wasn’t able to try his distraction procedure on me that he uses on checkouts. Exactly.
As for the after landing stuff on a retractable……I like to stop. Then I can quietly say to myself as I start the procedure to move handles…..”flaps”(touch the handle), “not the gear”(point at the handle), “flaps up”(select the handle. All slowly and methodically. Takes 3 seconds.
I suggest all do this.
Last edited:
RyanShort1
Final Approach
Except plenty of planes with towers can negate the pattern completely with straight-ins and other complexities. Best to aways run GUMPS several times and stay on your toes.
Let me just say....it can happen to ANYONE. A few weeks ago I was asked by the tower to extend down wind. For some strange reason I "didn't" follow my usual routine of putting the gear down mid-field. I thought, I'll put the gear down on base. When base came tower was on me for looking for traffic and I was now number three. I got busy looking for traffic and didn't do the gumps check....turned final....and again more traffic to deal with and my elec trim was acting up. I somehow got flaps in.....and it wasn't slowing normally.....still no gumps.... Hmmmm. Fortunately the taxiway turn offs were closed for construction and I was planning on landing long. As I crossed the numbers about 100 ft high....I hear....."check gear...check gear". That's when arms and legs went flying and the gear came down....and we performed a go around.
Never did I think I could even do that....cause I thought my "routine" was imprinted well....but it did. No metal was bent and we will fly another day....but, with a bit more humility.
Thanks for owning up to doing this. I think the susceptibility to distractions varies with the individual Pilot, but given the right circumstances, any of us can forget something important.