Question for those that have had an accident with ntsb investigation

Salty

Salty

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Salty
Did you get any information on what was going on at all, or is it a total black box until they’re done?

I just want to know if my experience is normal. I haven’t had any contact with anyone about this since they asked for the keys. Faa inspector won’t respond to me in any way. I don’t even know if anyone is getting my messages.

insurance company also can’t get any response.

just want to know if this is normal or if I should be trying another route to figure out what’s going on.

Technically, I still own the plane, and still have no idea whats been or going to be done with it after more than 8 months.
 
I feel a Mooney AD coming. See if they will name it for you. "AD Salty"
 
As the Owner and the last one to fly my Arrow prior to a two fatality accident flown by an FAA employee ATP probably committing suicide with his five year old daughter…she was twice the legal limit for alcohol and Reds Apple ale bottles empties and receipt of purchase in the wreckage…neither NTSB or FAA interviewed me…gave me the logs back after ten days…absolutely no contact after finding out who was the Pilot…
 
Warlock said:
As the Owner and the last one to fly my Arrow prior to a two fatality accident flown by an FAA employee ATP probably committing suicide with his five year old daughter…she was twice the legal limit for alcohol and Reds Apple ale bottles empties and receipt of purchase in the wreckage…neither NTSB or FAA interviewed me…gave me the logs back after ten days…absolutely no contact after finding out who was the Pilot…
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Your story is horrible. Sorry you had to go through that. I'm not expecting contact regarding the incident, just status as the owner of the aircraft. Did you never get the aircraft back at all? It's the lack of information about the property that I'm finding annoying.
 
My case the insurance company took possession of the wreckage…I had some personal stuff in the Aircraft but nothing was offered and I did not ask…
 
I assume you went online to NTSB database, I vaguely remember they update investigations in progress, but that may only be major accidents.
 
from the FAA and NTSB i would expect nothing after the initial interviews unless they needed more, however, from the insurance company i would have expected a settlement by now. there are expenses with storing the wreckage that are piling up and if you are still the legal owner you are responsible for them. I would be after them to get the settlement done and transfer of ownership to them. if they have not done anything in eight months it may be time to invest in lawyer.
 
unsafervguy said:
from the FAA and NTSB i would expect nothing after the initial interviews unless they needed more, however, from the insurance company i would have expected a settlement by now. there are expenses with storing the wreckage that are piling up and if you are still the legal owner you are responsible for them. I would be after them to get the settlement done and transfer of ownership to them. if they have not done anything in eight months it may be time to invest in lawyer.
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Settlement has already occurred, but they don't transfer ownership until the salvage has sold, so I still own it technically. Which they can't do until it's released. I've been waiting to buy the salvage.
 
Salty said:
Settlement has already occurred, but they don't transfer ownership until the salvage has sold, so I still own it technically. Which they can't do until it's released. I've been waiting to buy the salvage.
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This is very confusing. If you’re still the legal owner, why do you have to buy the salvage from yourself? Seems like a weird way to do business.
 
Half Fast said:
This is very confusing. If you’re still the legal owner, why do you have to buy the salvage from yourself? Seems like a weird way to do business.
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That's what happens when insurance totals a car or airplane. They pay you a settlement, and they take possession. Usually the former owner gets the option to purchase it from the insurance company for scrap value basically. Otherwise it goes to an insurance auction or scrap yard to help the insurance company recoup anything they can out of it.
 
Half Fast said:
This is very confusing. If you’re still the legal owner, why do you have to buy the salvage from yourself? Seems like a weird way to do business.
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I expect Salty has the option to NOT make the insurance claim (thus retaining ownership of the aircraft) vs. letting the insurance company take possession and sell it at auction...at which he might be able to buy it much cheaper than the insurance company's settlement. If Salty wants to keep the aircraft, he can let the insuror pay him, say, $60,000, but pick up the aircraft at the auction for $10,000.

Ron Wanttaja
 
midwestpa24 said:
That's what happens when insurance totals a car or airplane. They pay you a settlement, and they take possession. Usually the former owner gets the option to purchase it from the insurance company for scrap value basically. Otherwise it goes to an insurance auction or scrap yard to help the insurance company recoup anything they can out of it.
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When insurance totaled my car some years ago, I transferred the title to them when they paid the claim. Same when I had a motorcycle stolen.

This company has already paid @Salty but he still has the title.
 
Salty said:
Did you get any information on what was going on at all, or is it a total black box until they’re done?

I just want to know if my experience is normal. I haven’t had any contact with anyone about this since they asked for the keys. Faa inspector won’t respond to me in any way. I don’t even know if anyone is getting my messages.

insurance company also can’t get any response.

just want to know if this is normal or if I should be trying another route to figure out what’s going on.

Technically, I still own the plane, and still have no idea whats been or going to be done with it after more than 8 months.
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I had the wreck trucked off within a couple hours of the FAA saying they were done. The NTSB is an advisory agency and has no input on your certificate. The NTSB people were working from an office in Hawaii regarding an accident in the CONUS. They were a pain in the ass and just made up stuff to include my accident in a comprehensive “report” regarding part 137 operations to the FAA. I finally had to tell the guy to F off and stop calling me. He was a ladder climbing government employee looking for his next promotion. It was pathetic. So my answer is it 100% depends on the person working your case. They will either be amazing with high ethical standards that do a great job, a crook like the guy I dealt with or somewhere in between. Good luck.

Your first mistake was letting the *******s take your airplane.
 
My naive understanding is that aircraft "owners" do not have a title to aircraft. We have a registration but no legal paper indicating ownership.

The federal government can take my 182 at anytime. Correct?
 
I signed a blank bill of sale. The insurance company will give the bill of sale to the winner of the salvage auction. The insurance company will never take ownership. After the auction, I will have “right of refusal” to purchase at the highest bid before the bidder gets it.
 
12 to 15 months is not an abnormal time for an NTSB investigation of a plane crash.
 
Clip4 said:
12 to 15 months is not an abnormal time for an NTSB investigation of a plane crash.
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That's nice. Has nothing to do with my question though. Thanks for playing.
 
Darwin60 said:
My naive understanding is that aircraft "owners" do not have a title to aircraft. We have a registration but no legal paper indicating ownership. The federal government can take my 182 at anytime. Correct?
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No legal title to aircraft nor does your FAA registration determine actually legal ownership. While the FAA requires a documented legal chain of ownership to issue an aircraft registration, any challenges to those ownership documents are usually handled by state and local laws. As to taking your aircraft there are legal avenues to seize your aircraft like for enforcement of a civil penalty (Part 13) or during an accident investigation (Part 830). But to walk up and take it for no cause I'm unaware of any route they could take.

Tarheelpilot said:
and just made up stuff to include my accident in a comprehensive “report” regarding part 137 operations to the FAA
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Curious. You've made this claim before so why not post the NTSB accident number so you can show us the stuff they "made up"?
 
Bell206 said:
No legal title to aircraft nor does your FAA registration determine actually legal ownership. While the FAA requires a documented legal chain of ownership to issue an aircraft registration, any challenges to those ownership documents are usually handled by state and local laws. As to taking your aircraft there are legal avenues to seize your aircraft like for enforcement of a civil penalty (Part 13) or during an accident investigation (Part 830). But to walk up and take it for no cause I'm unaware of any route they could take.


Curious. You've made this claim before so why not post the NTSB accident number so you can show us the stuff they "made up"?
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Because I’m not going to share my accident report number with the entire internet in a manner that links it to a social media account I’ve maintained for over ten years.

curious. You’ve “called me out” in regards to this before. I’m surprised you haven’t figured out I don’t care if you believe me or not.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Because I’m not going to share my accident report number with the entire internet in a manner that links it to a social media account I’ve maintained for over ten years.
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Yet you're first in line to whine over the "entire internet" how the NTSB lied about your accident and how you got in their face over it. Sure. At least this time you gave a better excuse that you didn't want others in your social media circles to know about it. Whether you care or don't care about my posts doesn't matter. I just call like I see it.;)
 
Bell206 said:
Yet you're first in line to whine over the "entire internet" how the NTSB lied about your accident and how you got in their face over it. Sure. At least this time you gave a better excuse that you didn't want others in your social media circles to know about it. Whether you care or don't care about my posts doesn't matter. I just call like I see it.;)
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Ignorance is bliss. I truly hope you never believe me. I also call it how I see it. I’ve just seen more than you.

EDIT:
I have not seen more than you. I’ve just seen different things than you. I’m glad you’ve never experienced the incompetent people in government. It would however be nice if you would extend the same respect I do in return.
 
Salty said:
Did you get any information on what was going on at all, or is it a total black box until they’re done?
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Total black box. If you were an airline or a manufacturer, they might allow you to participate as an interested party. As just a private pilot owner, you won't know anything until their done.
 
Both the FAA and NTSB inspector in my off-airport landing had watched too much CSI or something, because the attitude was basically "we ask all the questions" -- nothing ever given me or even acknowledged, except with snark or incredulity. One day many months later, a report came out. It was NOT a collaborative process, it was an extractive and insulting one.

Which is incentive for me not to repeat the experience, I suppose.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I’m glad you’ve never experienced the incompetent people in government.
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I've never stated that or said the NTSB or FAA were perfect either. But respect is a two way street. I've read the report and the 6120.1. Where are the NTSB lies?
 
Bell206 said:
I've never stated that or said the NTSB or FAA were perfect either. But respect is a two way street. I've read the report and the 6120.1. Where are the NTSB lies?
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I don’t know what report you’ve read that’s relevant to my post.

Don’t worry every time you call my integrity into question without cause or any evidence to support your accusations then I’ll call you right back out. Im not the one being disrespectful.
 
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Total black box. I had the investigator's name and talked to him, but I didn't get any feedback until the official report was issued.
In fact, I was barred from attending the engine tear-down which I had requested.
 
flyingron said:
Total black box. I had the investigator's name and talked to him, but I didn't get any feedback until the official report was issued.
In fact, I was barred from attending the engine tear-down which I had requested.
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I don’t even have a name for ntsb let alone talked to them. I have no idea if they are doing a tear down or not. The Faa asked for the keys so they could do one and since then I’ve talked to no one. Once they got the keys they will not even respond that they got my message. In fact, I don’t even know that they received the keys I mailed them.
 
flyingron said:
In fact, I was barred from attending the engine tear-down which I had requested.
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FYI: by rule you are excluded in most cases. And you can thank a handful of plaintiff's attorneys and congress for changing who can be involved in the investigative process and what data is available to outside parties in the early 90s. This is the same group of attorneys who eventually caused the shutdown of single engine GA production.

Tarheelpilot said:
Don’t worry every time you call my integrity into question without cause
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Cause? If you recall several years ago, you made the original accusation the FAA/NTSB lied involving an incident. And you continue to make those accusations as in Post #14 above. Yet when asked to substantiate those serious claims you balk. Integrity? I think your actions speak for themselves.
 
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