Reselling N-Numbers as a Business

Lindberg said:
They're capturing a public resource at virtually no cost and reselling it for tremendous profit without providing any benefit to the public. If there's a market for N numbers, it should be realized by the FAA and benefit the taxpayers who created those resources, rather than whomever has the fastest finger.
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I agree with that and I'm a rabid conservative.
 
PaulS said:
Here's a novel idea, if you don't have an airplane to assign it to, you don't get an N number. Make a small exception for a number this is on an airplane owned by someone to be transferred with a one year grace period for the transfer to occur. One transfer every 3 or 5 years.

For me, if I had an airplane, a short number would be nice. But I'm not paying some schelp big bucks to get one.
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You’d have to have a grace period (1 year) to allow so planes can scheduled to be repainted to actually put the number on their plane.

It’s also about syllables:

123G vs 70JI

Same length, but 1 is longer to say.
 
nauga said:
How does an Ex/AB builder prove they have an airplane? Can't get an airworthiness cert without an N-number, don't have an airplane without an airworthiness cert.

My airplane was several crates full of aluminum when I reserved my N-number. The one I wanted was already reserved but I'm OK with what I got.

Nauga,
N-mumblemumble
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How do you do it now? I don't see that changing?

MooneyDriver78 said:
You’d have to have a grace period (1 year) to allow so planes can scheduled to be repainted to actually put the number on their plane.
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Why? You own the plane, you've got the number.

UngaWunga said:
Why not just require an aircraft serial # when registering a tail number?
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Yup
 
nauga said:
How does an Ex/AB builder prove they have an airplane? Can't get an airworthiness cert without an N-number, don't have an airplane without an airworthiness cert.

My airplane was several crates full of aluminum when I reserved my N-number. The one I wanted was already reserved but I'm OK with what I got.

Nauga,
N-mumblemumble
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When the inspector comes out to check it out, you submit his approval to the FAA.
 
EdFred said:
When the inspector comes out to check it out, you submit his approval to the FAA.
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While you might find some who will do it I'm not aware of an inspector that would approve it without proper markings. I'm not aware of an inspector that would inspect it (approval or otherwise) without a registration.

Nauga,
down the road
 
Lindberg said:
They're capturing a public resource at virtually no cost and reselling it for tremendous profit without providing any benefit to the public. If there's a market for N numbers, it should be realized by the FAA and benefit the taxpayers who created those resources, rather than whomever has the fastest finger.
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Thanks. Nailed it.
 
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PaulS said:
How do you do it now?
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I paid my $10 and reserved my N-number...about 12 years before I flew it. So yeah, how I did it works, but that's also how you get N-number squatters.

Look, I don't *like* it either, but I realize it's the system we have, it works, and I'm just a little leery of making changes so people can get the vanity tag they want without considering the unintended consequences.

Nauga,
unreserved
 
nauga said:
I paid my $10 and reserved my N-number...about 12 years before I flew it. So yeah, how I did it works, but that's also how you get N-number squatters.

Look, I don't *like* it either, but I realize it's the system we have, it works, and I'm just a little leery of making changes so people can get the vanity tag they want without considering the unintended consequences.

Nauga,
unreserved
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I don't disagree, but I'm amenable to paying a higher initial fee to prevent people from buying just to resell. $500 to reserve and $10 to renew reservation seems fair to me.
 
nauga said:
While you might find some who will do it I'm not aware of an inspector that would approve it without proper markings. I'm not aware of an inspector that would inspect it (approval or otherwise) without a registration.

Nauga,
down the road
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Yeah, I was suggesting a change in policy.
 
EdFred said:
Yeah, I was suggesting a change in policy.
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So two inspections or issue an airworthiness cert to an airplane with no N-number?

Nauga,
back to the days of pre-covers
 
Salty said:
I don't disagree, but I'm amenable to paying a higher initial fee to prevent people from buying just to resell. $500 to reserve and $10 to renew reservation seems fair to me.
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That might work but I'd be interested to know what kind of ROI the squatters get - the risk is raising the price to a level that makes it painful to the average amateur builder but squatters are still willing to pay.
OTOH, there's no requirement to reserve a number, so all of this is not preventing anyone from registering an airplane.

Nauga,
N8675309
 
Make them have a PPL or better (or 121/135 certificate) to register a number and the first few numbers are cheap but the price goes up with more.
 
no reg change for the first two reservations. $500 for each additional? Regs tied to a pilot cert # to prevent the "me and my 100 friends" registry

yeah we're just making stuff up because we hate this business. Probably just more effective to find out who he is and find a woodshed.
 
DesertNomad said:
Make them have a PPL or better (or 121/135 certificate) to register a number and the first few numbers are cheap but the price goes up with more.
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That would certainly cut down on manufacturers getting custom N-numbers.

Nauga,
blanked
 
EdFred said:
Co-issuance of a/w and N#
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Certainly would highlight the benefits of inspection before painting. Or an emerging "N-number touchup" market for those who guessed wrong.

Nauga,
baring it
 
I just registered my own N-number with the FAA, lol. For $10, I figured why not?! Sorry to the guy who wanted the N-number, but at least I didn't have to pay the 3rd party additional money for it.
 
Looks like the one behind vvip.aero isn't even based onshore. Searching the vvip.aero domain shares his UK linkedin data. Also seems like he's trying to grift co-marketing of other peoples' N numbers, so.. somehow that's a different ring of outrage for me.

https://short-n-numbers.com/ is registered behind a privacy screen to someone in... Iceland. No idea how accurate that is likely to be.

at least https://nnumbersforsale.com/ throws a Florida address on their page. Why is this sort of thing so often from Florida I wonder.
 
nauga said:
How does an Ex/AB builder prove they have an airplane? Can't get an airworthiness cert without an N-number, don't have an airplane without an airworthiness cert.

My airplane was several crates full of aluminum when I reserved my N-number. The one I wanted was already reserved but I'm OK with what I got.

Nauga,
N-mumblemumble
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Me too

Cheers
 
nauga said:
I paid my $10 and reserved my N-number...about 12 years before I flew it. So yeah, how I did it works, but that's also how you get N-number squatters.

Look, I don't *like* it either, but I realize it's the system we have, it works, and I'm just a little leery of making changes so people can get the vanity tag they want without considering the unintended consequences.

Nauga,
unreserved
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So you owned or had a po on a kit? I'm fine with that being included.

Paul,

King of N numbers.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
That sounds really expensive.
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It’s only if you want to reserve a number. You don’t have to reserve a number to get one. I don’t see the issue with paying a bit more for the reservation if you care that much.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I do see a problem with it. I like it exactly how it is now.
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Presumably you already have what you want. It sucks if some company has the ones you want and aren’t ever going to use them.
 
Salty said:
Presumably you already have what you want. It sucks if some company has the ones you want and aren’t ever going to use them.
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No. I get it. I’ve had to buy a domain from a clearing house in the past. I still wouldn’t change the way it’s managed.

edit. I’ve also been unable to get something I wanted. Just how crap rolls sometimes.
 
I'm all for free market, low regulation, and all of that....but this just smells like a snake belly to me....

PaulS said:
Here's a novel idea, if you don't have an airplane to assign it to, you don't get an N number. Make a small exception for a number this is on an airplane owned by someone to be transferred with a one year grace period for the transfer to occur. One transfer every 3 or 5 years.

For me, if I had an airplane, a short number would be nice. But I'm not paying some schelp big bucks to get one.
Click to expand...

In my simplistic view of it, seems like it should be pretty much this simple....exept perhaps the exeptions bit. Why does there have to be exceptions at all?!?

nauga said:
How does an Ex/AB builder prove they have an airplane? Can't get an airworthiness cert without an N-number, don't have an airplane without an airworthiness cert.

My airplane was several crates full of aluminum when I reserved my N-number. The one I wanted was already reserved but I'm OK with what I got.

Nauga,
N-mumblemumble
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That could be just part of the process of getting the airworthiness inspection process. Inspection passed, here's the list of available numbers. Now you've got 30 days or whatever to get it plastered on the side for a follow-up inspection to make sure teh numbers are the right size, etc... before you can fly it.
something like that. Simple.
 
Brad W said:
In my simplistic view of it, seems like it should be pretty much this simple....exept perhaps the exeptions bit. Why does there have to be exceptions at all?!?
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There aren't any right now. There would need to be exceptions to the process you quoted because it's not just TC'd single-owner one-airplane airplanes requiring N-numbers. Commercial fleets, manufacturers, research agencies, etc. The more you narrow things down to stop bulk N-number registrations, the more legitimate users you exclude...unless you add patchwork exceptions to accomodate them. It's this patchwork and the unintended consequences that set my teeth on edge.

Brad W said:
That could be just part of the process of getting the airworthiness inspection process. Inspection passed, here's the list of available numbers. Now you've got 30 days or whatever to get it plastered on the side for a follow-up inspection to make sure teh numbers are the right size, etc... before you can fly it.
something like that. Simple.
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Simple? Adding another inspection? Does this only apply to people who want specific N-numbers or does anyone getting a 'random' N-number have to do it too just in case someone might want the one that gets assigned? Either way, it's an additional inspection with associated wait time and fees for what is already an overburdened staff, and either (a) two processes that must be defined and regulate; one process for selected N-numbers and one for assigned N-numbers, or (b) an additional unneeded inspection and associated cost, delays, and paperwork for those who don't want a vanity tag.

I propose a simpler process:
1. Reserve the N-number you want from the list of available numbers, or let the FAA assign one to you.
2. When ready, register the airplane using that number and apply it to the airplane (order not important)
3. Single inspection by DAR or FAA ASI.
4. Fly.

Sound familiar?

Nauga,
who thinks the process is not the problem
 
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Salty said:
Presumably you already have what you want. It sucks if some company has the ones you want and aren’t ever going to use them.
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Some company *has* the one I wanted and I don't care if they never use it. My airplane flies no different with the number that's on it and it's too ingrained to go back now if the number became available...or affordable.
Personally I'm more concerned about people making my life potentially a lot more difficult so they can force someone else to give up something they want.

Nauga,
who is not facing an identity crisis
 
Yep, nauga finishes his kit, and it is examined by the inspector.

The inspector gives nauga a form to fill out and send to the FAA requesting a number from the computer list of un used numbers.

Nauga picks one, and sets it in reserved status, to prevent someone else from reserving the same one, and sends off the form the examiner gave him.

6 months later, the Fastest Agency Around sends him a letter approving his choice, and authorizes him to paint it on his plane.

So, 6 months after completion, nauga is now allowed to start test flights, and progress toward flying someplace!

If, of course, the less than famous United States Postal Service did not miss direct or miss place, or shred either the form going, or the one returning.

I personally have never seriously considered a vanity plate, or a special N number, so the present system is fine by me, and more efficient than the proposed cures for a minor problem.
 
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