How to move on from airplane crash

A

Asdfg

Guest
I recently was in an airplane crash in a small plane that I honestly should not have survived. Shortly after takeoff the plane refused to climb and began to descend. With no place to land (was near mountains and forest) Me and my friend who is a CFI went for the town next to the small airport. As we went down I had already accepted in my head that there was no way we would survive as there was nothing but houses and trees and I was literally preparing myself thinking this was the end . Somehow, we skimmed over houses and shot a small gap between all of the power lines crossing the small road, smashed down and slammed into a hill. The airplane crumpled like a can. Walked away with just a scratch. By far the scariest moment in my life and has left me really shaken up mentally. I currently have my private, and all I have ever wanted to do was get to the airlines to be a pilot. After this crash, I don’t know if I’m able to go back up anytime soon as this near death experience has really gotten to me. Now I’m uncertain about what to do next in my aviation career or if maybe this isn’t what I’m supposed to do. Any advice going forward? Before anyone asks, all weight and balance was done, and everything checked out. The engine just would not perform.
 
Had an engine out years ago when doing ultralight training in a two place Challenger. Engine quit on takeoff at ~150 feet or so. Hard slip and put it into the muddy field at the end of the airport property with some landing gear damage to the plane. Student got out, looked at me and said, "I'll be back to finish my flight training." I reminded him that he was just in an airplane crash. He said, "I know ... and you just proved to me that if the engine quits I don't have to die."

My point is that your CFI appears to have done what needed to be done to get down alive. Forget the plane as it belongs to the insurance company once the engine quits. Like my student you just experienced the fact that even in worse case scenarios, keeping your head in the game and following your training means that you will likely survive if you fly the airplane all the way through the crash.

Ever been in a car wreck? Still driving? It can be unsettling but the perspective you put on it will determine how it effects you.
 
Asdfg said:
I recently was in an airplane crash in a small plane that I honestly should not have survived. Shortly after takeoff the plane refused to climb and began to descend. With no place to land (was near mountains and forest) Me and my friend who is a CFI went for the town next to the small airport. As we went down I had already accepted in my head that there was no way we would survive as there was nothing but houses and trees and I was literally preparing myself thinking this was the end . Somehow, we skimmed over houses and shot a small gap between all of the power lines crossing the small road, smashed down and slammed into a hill. The airplane crumpled like a can. Walked away with just a scratch. By far the scariest moment in my life and has left me really shaken up mentally. I currently have my private, and all I have ever wanted to do was get to the airlines to be a pilot. After this crash, I don’t know if I’m able to go back up anytime soon as this near death experience has really gotten to me. Now I’m uncertain about what to do next in my aviation career or if maybe this isn’t what I’m supposed to do. Any advice going forward? Before anyone asks, all weight and balance was done, and everything checked out. The engine just would not perform.
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If it was me, I would want to know what caused the crash. Speaking with others, W&B doesn’t seem to be a big issue but density altitude does have a critical part. Are you comfortable with your instructor, their aircraft and maintenance? Maybe go for newer planes with more advanced equipment. It might help your thinking. But know that Aviation is a risk, and there are always airlines and others who will take shortcuts when it comes to maintenance.
 
mandm said:
If it was me, I would want to know what caused the crash. Speaking with others, W&B doesn’t seem to be a big issue but density altitude does have a critical part. Are you comfortable with your instructor, their aircraft and maintenance? Maybe go for newer planes with more advanced equipment. It might help your thinking. But know that Aviation is a risk, and there are always airlines and others who will take shortcuts when it comes to maintenance.
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density altitude was also good on that day. It was actually an aircraft I had just bought believe it or not. Had an annual done on it a few days prior and everything checked out fine. Low time on the aircraft and everything. Starting to wonder if the annual was done right
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Stuff happens. There is not meaning to the event unless you decide there is…

Find out what happened to your engine, learn from it and move forward knowing that when you were told to fly all the way into the crash to give best outcome was really good advice.
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You did Good. Get back in the saddle. QUICKLY.
 
I agree with the doctor - get back to it. Talk it through with a CFI to make sure they understand, but don't obsess about it. Remember how much fun flying is.

When I was young, I nearly killed myself in a dozen different ways. If I think too much about those things, I'd miss out on a lot of great stuff.
 
It's a tough situation for sure.
I think they key is to focus on the positive, you had a worst case scenario and you pulled it out!

Career wise, if you can make it to 1500 hours (mentally I mean after this incident) the safety record at airlines is impeccable and it's really no longer a concern.

In my book you walked away with an experience most of us hope to never have, and with a good outcome. Use it!
Always be mentally prepared for that to happen again and have a plan every time, it will make you a better pilot.
 
Scary stuff. My dad had a pretty harrowing boating experience once. The boat was in bad shape and he wanted to pay someone to retrieve it. A wise sailor advised him that if he didn't get right back out there it was likely he'd never sail again. He listened, owned two boats after the experience and enjoyed another ~25 years of boating. At his request, I just distributed his ashes near one of his favorite sailing locations which probably would not have been his wish had he not listened to his friend.
 
Cars crash as well. I have been in a couple really hard car crashes. I got in a car to get home.

Get back in a plane, and don't think about it, just get in and go.
 
It might take you a while to figure out what likely happened, but get back at it. Also, I'd rather put it down in trees near civilization than over cold water or BFE wilderness.
 
Sorry that happened to you. I can't speak from experience, but many great aviators have had crashes, some with multiple crashes. They accepted that it can happen and moved on. I would look at it from the perspective that you have been tested and passed in a situation that most of us haven't. Also, statistically, you're likely never going to be involved in another forced landing. Good Luck and Blue Skies!
 
As a fellow airplane crash survivor, I think If you honestly don't think you should have survived, maybe you shouldn't keep flying. I hate to sound harsh, but it sounds like you gave in to the "resignation" hazardous attitude. At no time during my "crash" other than the first few milliseconds after we hit the first tree did I think it might not be survivable. If I had, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be flying today. I kept flying that sucker to the best spot possible, and didn't think about anything else, all the way until the wind got knocked out of me. I wasn't seeing all the bad things that could happen, I was looking for all the ways to make it work out.

PS> Nobody knows what was really in your head but you, I know from experience how difficult it is to express what you felt during that emergency, so ignore me if you don't think it fits.

PPS> I still second guess flying in a way I never did prior to my accident, but I think that makes me safer.
 
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I just finished reading this book: Forever Flying Bob Hoover
Bob is considered by many to be one of the best pilots who ever lived. He also had more engine out emergencies than anyone else I've ever heard of, in every conceivable situation, and came out to tell the tale.

It really taught/showed/convinced me that a good outcome is almost always possible if you fly the airplane all the way down.

Give it a read it might help.
Everyone else should read it too because it's awesome.
 
Find out what caused the engine issue. That will help a lot. If I didn't know exactly what caused the in-flight emergencies I experienced, I don't know that I'd be willing to go back up.

Before getting my ticket, I was flying with a friend in a plane that (to make a long story short) we were both convinced was going to end up in a crumpled ball of aluminum. At one point this guy, a multi-thousand hour pilot with a lot of experience ferrying and flying freight, looked over and said, "I'm really sorry I killed you." But, obviously we didn't die. Didn't even crash. Since then I've had two partial engine failures on takeoff. Yeah, I get a little antsy for those first few hundred feet after takeoff, and you can bet your butt I pay a lot more attention to where I'm going to land off airport if I have to.
 
Paging @GMascelli I think he had a pretty harrowing engine out and posted about some of the aftermath issues but is back up and burning holes in the shy.
 
benyflyguy said:
Paging @GMascelli I think he had a pretty harrowing engine out and posted about some of the aftermath issues but is back up and burning holes in the shy.
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What timing, I was typing as you posted.


@Asdfg

It's a decision YOU alone will have to make. It's different for each person.

In June 2018 I lost an engine at 300', managed to make a fairway on a par three course. My bride and I survived. After I finally got out of the hospital, surgeries, and rehab I wanted to get back in the air. Thankfully my friends kept me in the game with their encouragement and offers to fly. I finally took the plunge eight months after the accident and got back in the air. My bride took the flight a month later, right seat, and got back in the air too. I have plenty of added metal in my feet and right leg but I can still fly.
 
I had a bad accident where I went into the trees. I flew the plane as long as I could, but reality says at some point I hit a tree that didn't give way and I was along for the short ride to the ground. I broke ribs, busted up my face, had a concussion, and more. I was in a Luscombe and a friend of mine also had a Luscombe, so I flew with him the next day. I knew better than to think about it too long. The accident will change the way you think about flying. You had been taught about things going wrong, now you've seen it for yourself. When flying over tree-covered mountains, I'm really looking for places to land. I did this before, but now I know how bad trees hurt!

I just watched a show on Netflix (terrible show that I don't recommend!) called Keep Breathing. There is a plane crash and you're inside for the ride. It felt very real to me and it was stressful.

As far as what caused your accident... I'll put money on the NTSB saying carb ice... that's what they said about mine. It's an easy way to close a case, the evidence melts.
 
Lowflynjack said:
I had a bad accident where I went into the trees. I flew the plane as long as I could, but reality says at some point I hit a tree that didn't give way and I was along for the short ride to the ground. I broke ribs, busted up my face, had a concussion, and more. I was in a Luscombe and a friend of mine also had a Luscombe, so I flew with him the next day. I knew better than to think about it too long. The accident will change the way you think about flying. You had been taught about things going wrong, now you've seen it for yourself. When flying over tree-covered mountains, I'm really looking for places to land. I did this before, but now I know how bad trees hurt!

I just watched a show on Netflix (terrible show that I don't recommend!) called Keep Breathing. There is a plane crash and you're inside for the ride. It felt very real to me and it was stressful.

As far as what caused your accident... I'll put money on the NTSB saying carb ice... that's what they said about mine. It's an easy way to close a case, the evidence melts.
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carb ice was one thing I have thought about. The reason I don’t think that was it was because the owner took the plane up 5 minutes before we took off and did a bunch of maneuvers and had no issues what so ever.
 
Asdfg said:
As we went down I had already accepted in my head that there was no way we would survive as there was nothing but houses and trees and I was literally preparing myself thinking this was the end.
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I have a real adverse reaction to this statement.

I landed off-airport in a plane under similar circumstances to you, and with similar outcome. During the entire short descent and ultimate landing, my mind was laser-focused on ekeing out the best outcome possible. Like, my brain summoned forth every scrap of checklist, aircraft trivia, anecdotes, books, and jokes that I had ever read/learned about up until that point, and magically curated them for me with instant recall and helpful prioritization. It was only after our landing in the field that I paused to reflect on the ramifications of it all. It was not germane in the moment, if that makes sense, so it took none of my attention.

I hate to say it, you were tested as few get to be. If your story is as it happened, then your brain gave up and did not fight for life. That sucks to learn, and now you need to figure out what it means for you.

I'd be disappointed too.
 
schmookeeg said:
I hate to say it, you were tested as few get to be. If your story is as it happened, then your brain gave up and did not fight for life. That sucks to learn, and now you need to figure out what it means for you.

I'd be disappointed too.
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To cut the OP *some* slack. Presumably the vastly more experienced CFI took over and handled the emergency relegating the OP largely to be a passenger and watching it happen to them rather than being the one directly pulling the strings.

Maybe I'm reading into the post, but it sounds like the OP is a freshly minted PPL with a very light amount of experience. How many hours did you have when your engine died?
 
Mtns2Skies said:
To cut the OP *some* slack. Presumably the vastly more experienced CFI took over and handled the emergency relegating the OP largely to be a passenger and watching it happen to them rather than being the one directly pulling the strings.
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This is why I put a disclaimer in my message, but still, if you can’t see the “outs” that were obviously there, it’s a concern.

Ps> never once did it occur to me to call my experience a near death one.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
To cut the OP *some* slack. Presumably the vastly more experienced CFI took over and handled the emergency relegating the OP largely to be a passenger and watching it happen to them rather than being the one directly pulling the strings.

Maybe I'm reading into the post, but it sounds like the OP is a freshly minted PPL with a very light amount of experience. How many hours did you have when your engine died?
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Agree. The OP was there and everyone judging them was not. During my crash, I knew I was going into the trees and nothing I could do was going to prevent a crash. I don't call this giving up, it was reality. I survived by luck. My skill and the ability of the airplane to glide had run out. I was the most experienced pilot in my plane that day and in the end, I was a passenger watching it happen to me!
 
Asdf said:
carb ice was one thing I have thought about. The reason I don’t think that was it was because the owner took the plane up 5 minutes before we took off and did a bunch of maneuvers and had no issues what so ever.
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Not saying that was the cause, but the NTSB closes a lot of cases that way. I don't think mine was either! Saves a lot of investigation.
 
It's normal.
You do not 'get over it',.....but the feeling diminishes with time.

It's perhaps a minor form of PTSD (but I don't like to use that term because I think it is largely used for war survivors.) But what you are feeling is real, valid, and sometimes needs treatment.

My crank broke at 1500' after takeoff and I landed on a highway safely. Even with no injury, no damage, I felt like crap, 'not myself' for some time. I tried EMDR (fully aware of its scientific standing)...maybe it helped.
I still get some dreams about the event or I can be daydreaming and get whole body spasms as it comes back. (Never do I get that around airplanes however, that would be self-grounding for me)
I had no trouble returning to the cockpit (got a ride home in a Comanche that day) although I am a little less on edge in the twins, than the SELs now!
 
Mtns2Skies said:
To cut the OP *some* slack. Presumably the vastly more experienced CFI took over and handled the emergency relegating the OP largely to be a passenger and watching it happen to them rather than being the one directly pulling the strings.

Maybe I'm reading into the post, but it sounds like the OP is a freshly minted PPL with a very light amount of experience. How many hours did you have when your engine died?
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~180ish. So yeah I suppose that could leave one with time to pontificate if they trusted their CFI entirely and implicitly. Hard for me to imagine that scenario though.

A few years later, I was taking dual from a CFI for my commercial ride and we lost partial power in our Cutlass. My CFI's reaction? "Your controls" :mad: -- useless cretin. So I guess OP was fortunate here. :D
 
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Stewartb said:
Get some PTSD counseling
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Would that potentially jeopardize his medical?

To the OP, as others mentioned above, I don't think you'll ever get over it, but you will learn to accept it and live with it and learn from it.

Knowing what exactly caused the loss of power will also help rationalize and understand and learn for the future
 
Tantalum said:
Why do you think he did this? Potentially for legal or insurance reasons?
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This was Sheble at Kingman, who I think knew no legal or insurance concerns ever. :D

My opinion would be because he was a craven worm. He spent the rest of a long final approach into IGM studying the ground outside of his window, presumably trying to time some sort of looney tunes jump.
 
Tantalum said:
Would that potentially jeopardize his medical?

To the OP, as others mentioned above, I don't think you'll ever get over it, but you will learn to accept it and live with it and learn from it.

Knowing what exactly caused the loss of power will also help rationalize and understand and learn for the future
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I’d wager it’s not likely to ever be known in many cases. Not expecting to ever know in mine. Bothered me at first. I’m over it. I expect them to come back with fuel starvation or carb ice, but there’s no way to prove either.
 
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Well that makes it tougher to rationalize. Also, if it's just one of those dumb luck things it's one thing if it happens after 10,000 hours and another after maybe just 100...
 
I too have an off field landing....that totaled the aircraft. Ended upside down in a muddy field. Walked away with bumps and bruises. That was over 30 years ago. First thing I did was get my instrument rating.

Get back on the horse and ride it.....start your instrument and motor on. ;)
 
This would be my guess too. It won't matter if it was flown just before. Hot/warm and humid air contains more moisture than cooler air. If it had carb heat be sure you are diligent with using it as part of your check list....especially during the runup. Maybe not for take off....but definitely for landing with the power reduction. Possibly if you used carb heat during the runup check you might have cleared the ice?....but, maybe not also.
Asdf said:
carb ice was one thing I have thought about. The reason I don’t think that was it was because the owner took the plane up 5 minutes before we took off and did a bunch of maneuvers and had no issues what so ever.
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Justin Brady said:
I just finished reading this book: Forever Flying Bob Hoover
Bob is considered by many to be one of the best pilots who ever lived. He also had more engine out emergencies than anyone else I've ever heard of, in every conceivable situation, and came out to tell the tale.

It really taught/showed/convinced me that a good outcome is almost always possible if you fly the airplane all the way down.

Give it a read it might help.
Everyone else should read it too because it's awesome.
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Thanks for the book tip. Just got a copy off eBay for $4, shipping included.
 
I fly a 182. It’s an ice box. I have had some occ stumbles with carb heat after a long idle at ramp then taxi especially on these more humid evenings when temps starting to drop just a touch. If I have passing thought about icing I pull the carb heat.
 
Get back in the air, you made it OK so fagetaboudit and move on. It's life, **** happens.
 
As a survival of 5 “fender benders”, two with only me to blame, 3 mechanical (2 of which just out of annual), I understand the feelings. As some have said, give it time for you to reflect on the accident, the cause, how much you enjoy flying, your family responsibilities, etc. Flying is dangerous. After my first accident(spinal fusion with Herrington Rods, body cast for 9 months, just after opening my solo ophthalmology practice(major debt), almost killing my dad), I said I was never going to fly again. 2 years later, I was back flying because I missed it so much. My wife and family were very supportive. I would give it time. Accidents happen in aviation, some of us realize the risks and accept them, others downplay the risks. Only by the grace of God am I alive and did not take other lives.
 
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