On the controls during Discovery Flight

[RobertGary1]

Many years ago I took a discovery flight in a Bell 47. The instructor didn't really let me touch the controls and he said I'd need some time before I could take the controls. Last week I decided to try again in an R-22. The instructor immediately took me over to the helipad put us in a hover and one by one turned the controls over to me. He then put his hands in the air and said "You have it". Now I'm not super pilot and I could only hold a good hover for about 20 seconds but he would then correct me and give it back to me to try again. Now I find myself signing up for more lessons

So was CFI #1 just not confident in his ability or was CFI #2 crazy?

-Robert

 

[EdFred]

What's the point of a discovery flight if the person doesn't get on the controls?

 

[Deelee]

So was CFI #1 just not confident in his ability or was CFI #2 crazy

Don't know what CFI #1's issue was and I cannot speak to the mental state of CFI #2, but everyone I have known (including me) who has had a discovery flight in any type of aircraft has been given control at some phase of flight. For mine, I got control just after takeoff and flew until we were on final.

 

[AlphaMike]

If they don't let you have the controls its not a discovery flight, its just a passenger going for a ride.

 

[dmspilot]

They could both be right. I usually try to read the student and tailor the experience to their readiness and eagerness. Perhaps on your second flight you were more eager than the first. Some people who sign up for discovery flights aren't interested in learning to fly at all. I guess you could say that it's my job to convince them but I was never a good salesman.

 

[Skyrys62]

CFI #1 had insurance in mind.
CFI #2 had payday in mind.

 

[RobertGary1]

Don't know what CFI #1's issue was and I cannot speak to the mental state of CFI #2, but everyone I have known (including me) who has had a discovery flight in any type of aircraft has been given control at some phase of flight. For mine, I got control just after takeoff and flew until we were on final.

When I’m giving a discovery flight in a sel I talk them through the take off but I do give them the yoke and help them out. Rudders are too much for them.
But when I took my first glider flight he didn’t give me the controls until 200 feet. I’m considering getting my cfi-g now and I think I’d probably give them the controls on take off in a glider too if they were already sel.
But after the flight in the 47 I though maybe this was a helicopter specific thing.

 

[murphey]

We even let the kids have the controls (but not rudders) during a Young Eagle flight!

 

[skyking3286]

Back in 1982, my first flight was a discovery flight was at TTD in C152 N5460B - and the instructor followed me through the controls for a while and set me free to fly - and I even did most of the landing. I had flown a lot of RC models and knew about the flare, airspeed control and the like. He turned to me as we turned off the runway and asked if I had taken any lessons before, and I truthfully said no. It was a thrill and got me going. So. . . it depends. Some folks even with hundreds of hours probably need a CFI to follow them through the controls with every flight, especially if you have been reading Kathryn's Report the past three weeks. Assessing decision-making is also a part of it I'm sure.

 

[flyingron]

Huh? How are you doing instruction if you never let the student fly?

There's no requirement for a student to spend time as a passenger before being instructed.

 

[RussR]

Because the flight was in an R22, it sounds like CFI#2 violated SFAR 73, which requires ground training before any other person touches the controls.

 

[Dave Theisen]

#1 failed to sign you up for lessons, #2 got you hooked. Question answered.

 

[skyking3286]

Because the flight was in an R22, it sounds like CFI#2 violated SFAR 73, which requires ground training before any other person touches the controls.

That's an interesting twist to the thread. Wonder if the original poster can fill us in. . .

 

[X3 Skier]

I don’t worry about rudder pedals since the plane doesn’t have any.

Flew a CH-3C once for 5 minutes and it was sufficient for a lifetime.

Cheers

 

[RussR]

That's an interesting twist to the thread. Wonder if the original poster can fill us in. . .

This stood out to me because I did exactly the same thing (signed up for a discovery flight in an R-22) about 12 years ago, and the CFI was very sure to let me know that if I wanted to handle the controls, SFAR 73 required some ground training beforehand. Since I very much did want to try the controls, I paid the extra for the ground training and received the required endorsement for it, then we went.

And then I went on to add it to my Commercial certificate as well!

 

[RobertGary1]

He provided the sfar endorsement prior to our flight.

 

[RussR]

He provided the sfar endorsement prior to our flight.

Excellent. Then I would say CFI #2 was being appropriate, and CFI #1 was possibly being too hesitant. HOWEVER, a lot of that depends on how the first flight was "sold" to you, what each of your expectations were, and communication about that.

 

[kath]

I'm with CFI #2.

I took a helicopter lesson once. It started with the SFAR thing. "There is one thing you need to know to NEVER EVER do in a helicopter, before you can legally take the controls," my instructor explained to me, and then explained what it was. Then she filled out a little index card thingy saying that I had been thusly trained.
Then she told me a crazy story about bringing a helicopter to a festival of some sort, drawing a big circle in the grass, and challenging all comers to "get airborne and try to keep the helicopter inside the circle". She'd had to teach each hopeful the "Thing You Must Never Ever Do" SFAR thing with them as well. She said most hopefuls only lasted a few seconds before she'd have to take over, and no one could keep it in the circle.
Then we fired up the helicopter and had a lesson. I was on the controls for about 80-90% of the flight, just like on a typical airplane discovery flight. It was awesome!!
She demonstrated an autorotation.
She let me try to hover... first with just one of the controls, then with two... then with all three. For about three seconds, before she took the controls back. Told me she rarely lets people hover with all three controls on the first lesson, but that I seemed to be doing really well.

At this point, you might be wondering... "What is the Thing You Must Never Ever Do in a Helicopter? Tell us!"

... I forget what it was. All I remember is that it is very important to never do it.