Annual maintenance regulations COVI changes.

[bluesideup]

Hi everyone.

Did any one have to get an extension for the annual maintenance and are there any extensions / regulations that may be used to extend flight beyond 12 months without the ferry permit?

Thanks

 

[Tom-D]

Special flight permit. other wise known as a ferry permit.

 

[Bell206]

are there any extensions / regulations that may be used to extend flight beyond 12 months without the ferry permit?

There are no FAA extensions for the annual inspection 12 month requirement. The only maintence type covid extensions issued were for A&P testing eligibility dates and IA renewal requirements. As you noted, the only way to fly an aircraft with an expired annual is with a ferry permit which is usually limited to moving the aircraft to a mx facility or get the aircraft out of harms way.

 

[Magman]

Until recently the fiefdom er FSDO, would issue the Special Airworthiness

Certificate (Ferry Permit).

It was not valid until an A & P signed logs that aircraft was ok for the flight.

Recently the feds want the A & P to sign but the Ferry Permit is issued

by a DAR ( Designated Airworthiness Representative) who must travel to your

aircraft to lay hands on it prior to issuance.

So now it takes longer but costs more money,

And the Annual is not started yet.

Maybe you will get lucky with a FSDO issuance?

 

[mondtster]

Until recently the fiefdom er FSDO, would issue the Special Airworthiness

Certificate (Ferry Permit).

It was not valid until an A & P signed logs that aircraft was ok for the flight.

Recently the feds want the A & P to sign but the Ferry Permit is issued

by a DAR ( Designated Airworthiness Representative) who must travel to your

aircraft to lay hands on it prior to issuance.

Not true. The FSDO will still issue a special flight permit and do it sight unseen. The only thing that has changed is the process by which you request the permit. What used to be a 10 minute call to the FSDO now takes hours or days to complete.

 

[Bell206]

Recently the feds want the A & P to sign but the Ferry Permit is issued by a DAR ( Designated Airworthiness Representative) who must travel to your aircraft to lay hands on it prior to issuance.

Don't quite follow your comment. Are you saying the DAR is required when there is no local mechanic to perform the ferry flight inspection or that your FSDO has delegated all ferry flight permits to DARs? As noted above, and on the last ferry permit I signed off on a couple months ago, the entire process was completed by phone/emails and the permit sent out without any DAR involvement.

 

[Tom-D]

Each FSDO is allowed to dictate what they will except.. ours will talk to us.

the FSDO may have aircraft they will not allow to fly.

case in point, an aircraft has been signed off prior once or more and there is cause to refuse the flight.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Each FSDO is allowed to dictate what they will except.. ours will talk to us.

the FSDO may have aircraft they will not allow to fly.

case in point, an aircraft has been signed off prior once or more and there is cause to refuse the flight.

There is so much wrong with that post.

 

[Magman]

“ Not true”.

Sorry; IS true!

Tom’s first line stating that individual FSDOs can set policies depending on

staffing and other factors is correct.

ie Some FSDOs will issue Field Approvals and some will not.

Ferry Permits are treated in a similar fashion.

My FSDO will issue it IF work load permits.

Most times it is referred to a DAR.

The DAR only comes into the picture after the A & P has inspected and logged

aircraft as able to be complete the flight.

Then the DAR is contacted and scheduled.

They tell me that their rules require them to be able to “ lay hands on the

aircraft” prior to issuance.

I believe there are only 2 folks in New York State that are authorized.

So a 2 hour drive each way while on the clock is routine.

Thus an aircraft 5 days overdue and having a 15 minute flight

for the Inspection will be running up quite a bill.


I go back to the time Ferry Permits were only issued by Pre-paid

TELEGRAMS.

Policies do change ; not always for the better.

 

[Tom-D]

“ Not true”.

Sorry; IS true!

Tom’s first line stating that individual FSDOs can set policies depending on

staffing and other factors is correct.

ie Some FSDOs will issue Field Approvals and some will not.

Ferry Permits are treated in a similar fashion.

My FSDO will issue it IF work load permits.

Most times it is referred to a DAR.

The DAR only comes into the picture after the A & P has inspected and logged

aircraft as able to be complete the flight.

Then the DAR is contacted and scheduled.

They tell me that their rules require them to be able to “ lay hands on the

aircraft” prior to issuance.

I believe there are only 2 folks in New York State that are authorized.

So a 2 hour drive each way while on the clock is routine.

Thus an aircraft 5 days overdue and having a 15 minute flight

for the Inspection will be running up quite a bill.


I go back to the time Ferry Permits were only issued by Pre-paid

TELEGRAMS.

Policies do change ; not always for the better.

Speciality if they are warned..
The FSDO will/can state what must repaired prior to issuance.
That was put out at the IA renewal seminar.

 

[Bell206]

My FSDO will issue it IF work load permits. Most times it is referred to a DAR.

What FSDO?

I go back to the time Ferry Permits were only issued by Pre-paid TELEGRAMS.

Were they signed by Charlie Taylor?

 

[Magman]

I get along with the FSDO Folks quite good for certain reasons.

Being publicly critical may not work well.

People I've talked to across the country seem to have similar policies.

"Maybe yes or maybe no".

Not all are the same.

I recall Charlie as a pretty good student that displayed possibilities!

 

[Bell206]

I get along with the FSDO Folks quite good for certain reasons. Being publicly critical may not work well.

And I get along well myself with a number of FAA offices, but I don't follow why simply mentioning the FSDO would be construed as "publicly critical?" Unless you're a former ASI or the current DAR? But that's fine as well.

People I've talked to across the country seem to have similar policies.

Interesting. However, that is opposite of my past and current experience which is the reason for the questions. If we were discussing your FSDO delegating "most" AWC work I'd agree 100%. But delegating "most" ferry permits to a DAR seems a bit out of the norm considering "most" ferry permits are dealt with via phone/fax/email which, as you noted, a DAR can not use to issue a ferry permit. Sounds quite convenient.

I recall Charlie as a pretty good student that displayed possibilities!

Well if Charlie was your student, you must have been sipping wine with du Temple and Le Bris. But I did hang out at the local GADO on occasion.....

 

[Magman]

Well I just missed the DAMI era and never had a chance to "hang the ticket".

Still have some carbon copies of Form 8320-3 Aircraft Use & Inspection Report.

You got me with the French ? guys!!

I first heard of the policy about 2 years ago.


It might be interesting to to start a thread regarding unusual Ferry Permits ?

Maybe Maintenance Bay?

 

[Bell206]

Well I just missed the DAMI era and never had a chance to "hang the ticket".

Ha. I saw one of those DAMI certificates once. One of my mentors somehow kept his frame and all. Kind of tough to carry that in your wallet.

FWIW: they regurgitated the DAMI acronym in Part 183 however its but a speck of its former self.

 

[Magman]

That goes back to the days when feds determined how many & who would be an Inspector.

Now the wording is if you meet requirements you are entitled to test to obtain.

 

[Doc Holliday]

That goes back to the days when feds determined how many & who would be an Inspector.

Now the wording is if you meet requirements you are entitled to test to obtain.

 

[Tokirbymd]

Not saying I would do this, but if an airplane was simply out of annual (ie no obvious mechanical issues) and needed to be ferried for annual inspection and "magically showed up at a new airport" for said inspection, how would the A&P/IA handle that? Obviously any accident along the way would no longer be covered by insurance, and result in FAA ticket action, but if the airplane just appeared at a new airport and was found to be "out of annual" at that time, who would know?

 

[Bell206]

how would the A&P/IA handle that?

No different than any other aircraft unless I'm missing the context of your question. There are various situations where an APIA may not know the history or background of an aircraft prior to working on it.

 

[Tom-D]

Not saying I would do this, but if an airplane was simply out of annual (ie no obvious mechanical issues) and needed to be ferried for annual inspection and "magically showed up at a new airport" for said inspection, how would the A&P/IA handle that? Obviously any accident along the way would no longer be covered by insurance, and result in FAA ticket action, but if the airplane just appeared at a new airport and was found to be "out of annual" at that time, who would know?

An A&P- IA is not responsible for how the aircraft got here. that is solely the pilot's business.
The A&P-IA should not care how long the aircraft was out of annual, simply do the inspection.

 

[Tom-D]

Just saying,,

when the FSDO feels the aircraft isn't safe to fly, they will remove the Aircraft's airworthy certificate, and notified the owner.
I'm not certain if that is required to be in writing or not.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Just saying,,

when the FSDO feels the aircraft isn't safe to fly, they will remove the Aircraft's airworthy certificate, and notified the owner.
I'm not certain if that is required to be in writing or not.

You claim to know everything else about how a FSDO works, why is this unknown? Hint: It's in the guidance.