Howard Wilson
Line Up and Wait
Geezer, not a correction. Just added information. ;-)
Remember 'Concorde' going to and from Dulles, passing over every day.
Remember 'Concorde' going to and from Dulles, passing over every day.
STOL
- Thread starter Silvaire
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Silvaire
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Silvaire
Most people have seen this picture of Bedford Maule taking off from his hangar in Georgia that put the STOL marketing stamp on Maule Aircraft about 50 years ago. When my brother and I visited the factory we noticed that the hangar is open at both ends and is probably at least 300 feet with an additional 300 feet of apron so he had a good 600 foot run for that stunt but the picture was worth it's weight in gold and Maule was branded STOL from then on despite being really just a slightly modified Piper Pacer underneath.
The Sherpa is an aircraft that uses some of the Helio tricks such as huge Fowler flaps and D-foil aileron/spoiler combos but lacks the leading edge slats. Also it's experimental so probably couldn't be used by organizations such as JAARS. There was one at the High Sierra Fly-in a couple of years back and he did compete in the STOL Drag event with a slight twist - had his whole family and the dog onboard at the time.
The Sherpa is an aircraft that uses some of the Helio tricks such as huge Fowler flaps and D-foil aileron/spoiler combos but lacks the leading edge slats. Also it's experimental so probably couldn't be used by organizations such as JAARS. There was one at the High Sierra Fly-in a couple of years back and he did compete in the STOL Drag event with a slight twist - had his whole family and the dog onboard at the time.
CharlieD3
En-Route
I was really enamored with the Helio after seeing the OP... But, it's an orphan... So you can't easily find operating costs....
But I did find this (quite long but interesting): https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/com..._source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body
I could view it in browser, didn't have to join reddit.
But I did find this (quite long but interesting): https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/com..._source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body
I could view it in browser, didn't have to join reddit.
kyleb
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Drake the Outlaw
Operating costs shouldn't be any different than any other piston single with that engine/prop.
CharlieD3
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It's the paucity of parts for the airframe... And this one had castering (crosswind) main gear... Oh, and a geared engine... But typical for THAT geared engine, I suppose.
kyleb
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Drake the Outlaw
I was looking at it from the perspective that it is a simple airframe. Like a lot of types with no new parts, you might have to fab new parts yourself. Things like brake pads and wheels - what a PITA.
Matthew Rogers
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Matt R
It is easier to get a part machined these days than to find or buy some Cessna parts. If you could just CNC machine a new spar carry through for a 210 or 177, I am sure you could find a solution for less than the nearly $10,000 it costs for even a used one (prices range from $2,000-10,000 reportedly for used and "Unknown" as the cost for new from Cessna). Combined with 3D laser mapping of your existing part and CNC machining, I bet parts would be easier and cheaper.
CharlieD3
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I've suggested that before.... Got NOWHERE with it.
It can be "easier" to an extent via owner produced parts. Whether "cheaper" depends on if you can find the original approved data or get new data approved and find the right person to install the parts. A lot of the older unique aircraft follow this same path. But definitely doable regardless of the type aircraft. In the case of the Helio I thought I read an article years back where someone out west bought the Helio TC, etc and was going to start producing airframes or parts again. But I could be mistaken as well.
Stewartb
Final Approach
The Helio restart never happened but lots of them are still going strong. They aren't that unique. Slats are passive. Big flaps and big chord ailerons. Big tail. Complicated fuel system. If you want STOL buy a new age Cub!
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It looks like Atlee Dodge and McFarlane make some parts for Helios. Are there any Helio groups/clubs up there?
kyleb
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Drake the Outlaw
Why is the fuel system complicated? High wings *usually* make for simple fuel systems.
Silvaire
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Silvaire
I love Cubs, learned to fly in a J3 in 1969 and used to draw pictures of Supercubs when I was kid but the Helio Courier is more in the league of a 206 and, as I noted earlier, has mostly been replaced by Kodiaks and PC6's so no, a new age Cub is not the option for that mission unless it's okay to make four trips instead of one.
Stewartb
Final Approach
They never dethroned either the 206 or Beaver as a working airplane. And like I said earlier, my Cub (with leading edge stats and big Fowler flaps) has more space and a greater useful than a Helio. They're a little faster but a Cub will take off and land in less space. I guess the market has noticed, because nobody's building Helio clones!
Mtns2Skies
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Is anyone building Beaver clones? Quest Kodiak I guess?
Stewartb
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Murphy Moose? A buddy has one with a hot-rodded Barrett motor and Whirl Wind prop that's the best performing float plane I've ever seen. FWIW, I've been around Helios, turbine Beavers, and Kodiaks on floats. 
Silvaire
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Well of course not because the capabilities of the Helio are a niche market. There aren't any 206's or Beavers going into those jungle patches in New Guinea or the Philippines. It's like when we owned the Maule and would go to the back country fly-ins up in Idaho and Montana, everyone sitting around feelin' all bush-pilot-like and here comes some punk kid in a clapped out 150 or, even worse, some old geezer in an Ercoupe and all the egos get deflated lower than the 8 psi in their four thousand dollar set of Alaska Bushwheels.
CharlieD3
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More room in a cub? Where? The Helio seats 5 has a gross of 3600#. The Helio's STOL characteristics were built in from the factory... Your Cub's may have been as well, I don't know. The stall speed on a Helio is 25 mph... Not knots... Useful load ~1250# And they were chosen, over Cubs ... When Cubs were certainty more plentiful... for jungle work on horrific strips. Perhaps it was the 17K ceiling?
But, I have to admit, I don't know the specs on your bird... so I may again be talking out my rear...
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Matthew Rogers
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Your Cub has these specs? Please tell us which ones your Cub can beat? Remember the takeoff specs are at max gross of 3400#. And a future model has a gross weight increase to 3600#.
Your Cub has 1510# useful load?
Your Cub has a cruise speed of 165 mph?
Your Cub can seat 6 people?
All while having a V0 of 30 mph at max gross?
STANDARD DATA: (H-295) Seats 4-6. Gross wt. 3,400. Empty wt. 2,080. Fuel capacity 120. Engine 295-hp Lycoming.
PERFORMANCE: Top mph 167. Cruise mph 165. Stall mph 30. Initial climb rate 1,150. Range 660. Ceiling 20,500. Takeoff distance (50′) 6 10. Landing distance (50′) 520.
STANDARD DATA: (H-250) Seats 6. Gross wt. 3,400. Empty wt. 1,890. Fuel capacity 120-270. Engine 250-hp Lycoming.
PERFORMANCE: Top mph 160. Cruise mph 152. Stall mph 31. Initial climb rate 830, Ceiling 15,200. Range 644-1,288. Takeoff distance (50′) 750. Landing distance (50′) 520.
Stewartb
Final Approach
You guys live in books. I live in the Alaska STOL world. You need to get out more!
I came about 30 seconds from buying a Helio 250 when I bought my 180. Bro in law had a 395 at the time. I'm familiar with Helios. I've never been sorry that I chose my 180. Or my new Cub!
I came about 30 seconds from buying a Helio 250 when I bought my 180. Bro in law had a 395 at the time. I'm familiar with Helios. I've never been sorry that I chose my 180. Or my new Cub!
CharlieD3
En-Route
You still didn't answer the question(s). I understand you are rightfully proud of your choice... and that there are possibly more versatile, practical aircraft than the Helio for different missions.
But, legal specifications matter. And I don't see the Cub beating the Helio... Nor a 180 without modification.
Silvaire
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Silvaire
The main point of this thread when I started it was that hey, that was back in 1954. There were about 500 Helio Couriers made over a 20 year span and there definitely was a specialized mission for them but they are no longer being built so the "newest" one is 46 years old now and outside of experimental they were never fitted with a turbine which is the biggest factor for aircraft being used on those remote missions due to the scarcity of avgas. I just thought it was a cool airplane, didn't want to see a pi$$ing contest.
CharlieD3
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Well, it IS POA... and "marking trees" is a "speciality." I was really grateful for your OP. I think the plane was ahead of it's time in some respects... And your post made me dig further...
Of course, it's not a Bonanza, so it's far from perfect! But I like underdogs and unique vehicles. So, I championed its cause.
Seems as though there have been many attempts to resurrect it... Though not as many as the Cub (and obviously not as successfully).
There are other underdogs I like, too... Like the Navion (no offense @flyingron) which have been promised resurrection... and I love some Navion... They just have such a ramp presence.
But, even for we that "don't get out enough" slamming the topic aircraft dujour without backing up talk with fact... Rankles a bit...
Stewartb
Final Approach
Just because I truly enjoy the whole STOL thing, here's a video tour of my Cub. Since then the landing gear has been changed to increase AOA and it has a new engine that should be making 235 HP. The prop is constant speed. If I remove the cargo curtain there's better than 7' of flat floor behind the rear seat. With the big baggage door it's easier to load this plane than my 180. This is a big Cub.
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Stewartb
Final Approach
FWIW, being invested in leading edge slats I've tried to learn about them. The short history is a German engineer (Lachmann) invented slats in 1917 but he never built an airplane with them. Handley Page in the UK flew the first plane with slats (and flaps) in 1921. We're coming up on 100 years very soon. Still a very cool mod, especially in concert with big, deep chord flaps.
Fly North
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Fly North
I think Stewart’s airplane is AWESOME! More room inside than a Helio or not, its an awesome airplane. No gearbox, no wing issues, you can actually move the tail around by hand, and so on. Besides, the color on Stewarts airplane is once again, there is that word again, awesome. Well done Stewart!
Kurt
Kurt