Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
Again, we should fly lower than comfort over towers and houses so that someone outside the pattern can not have to adjust anything. douchebaggery.
Another crazy flight, but didn't have the cameras running for this one
- Thread starter Salty
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EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Oh, so you were in the 206 to know he couldn't, even though he said he had you in sight. Can you please teach me this clairvoyance technique?
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Oh, so every other plane should alter their paths so you don't have to adjust anything. This is starting to make sense now. He was base for 5/crosswind for 23. That's in the pattern.
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
No, it isn't in the pattern. The pattern is right traffic to avoid the skydive area - the one he flew through.
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
The opinion of someone that thinks it's a good idea to fly over another aircraft in the pattern is not meaningful to me.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
NOTAM stating you can't be there?
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Sorry I'll try to align my views to coincide with those that think climbing into another airplane is a good idea. I'll get back to you when I can survive on respirating hydrogen sulfide and methane.
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
Moving goalposts. It wasn't the pattern. Welcome to the ignore list.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
You forgot your other ball. Crosswind is part of the pattern.
danhagan
En-Route
Not sure about Salty's field, but ours is NOTAMed for right traffic 28 and left 10 for the meat bombs south of the field. You can't crosswind enter at ours without interfering with the jump operations. We also have an acro box that goes active a couple of times a month that EXTENDS even further west. The jump plane coming out of their protected area can get interesting as they are spiraling down from 18000 or 14000 depending on the jumpers.
NOTAM: !ABQ 01/021 Dona Ana County International Jetport, Santa Teresa, NM (KDNA) Airspace parachute jumping exercise WI an area defined as 3 nautical miles radius of DNA surface to flight level 230 daily sunrise-sunset Jan 4, 2020 1408Z (08:08 MDT) to Jan 3, 2021 0015Z (Jan 2, 18:15 MDT)
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
That's why I asked. Some places have that defined, but coming in from the non pattern side of the field it's not against regulations. Nothing at ZPH says being SE of the field is prohibited. Even that notam for DNA doesn't say you can't be there (except for no pattern), just be ready for someone in your windscreen. We used to have parachute jumping at our field. That was interesting because we had 12 30 18 36 and 9 27. The jumpers would land ANYWHERE.
Just seems to be another case of someone thinking everyone else is the problem.
If I’m understanding this right, both your buddy and the 206 pilot lacked situational awareness in this event. The call for a ‘right base 5 to join the downwind 23’ should’ve just been ‘entering right crosswind for 23’. Adding in ‘right base 5’ was not the right call to make, as it just adds further confusion. In this situation, being only 400ft AGL, I would’ve happily extended my upwind to allow the faster traffic (206) who was already entering the pattern to get in front, rather than making a close in downwind turn at 800ft like your friend decided to do. That was your mistake, or rather your buddy’s mistake.
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
I can understand this position. I don't agree, but I get your logic. We didn't know he wasn't going to try to space himself at the time. I don't really know what I would have done, but I feel like the crosswind turn was the only option. There's a lot of houses and towers straight out, which isn't a problem if you can climb, but I wouldn't continue to climb while a plane is heading to fly over top of me. I assumed the guy would turn left a few degrees and pull power. I was wrong.
In retrospect, your suggestion would have been better, but with the information known at the time, I don't agree.
I get it, I just try to err on the conservative side, because one can never know what the other guy is thinking or what he’s about to do. Personally, I don’t see any conflicts by continuing the upwind at 400AGL if the 206 was already at TPA on the crosswind leg. Given their speed, will easily be well beyond you by the time you get to their altitude, but this of course takes into consideration that you can confirm their position and have them insight. YMMV, and you live and learn.
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
Maybe I'm alone, but I would never intentionally enter on a crosswind when a plane had just taken off and was still flying runway heading. That's just rude and pointlessly dangerous IMO. I'll enter on a crosswind if there's nobody around, but not with a plane pointing right at me just getting off the ground. There's just no good reason for it.
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
In retrospect, the guy probably thought he was doing the right thing by entering on the crosswind on the edge of the jump zone instead of flying through the middle of the jump zone. Still no excuse to overtake someone in the pattern and fly above them to the point you can't see them, and ignore their calls.
I fly a Mooney, I have to slow down often to space into the pattern. Just last week I had to do a 360 to let someone being stupid have the time to get in safely ahead of me. Cost me 2 minutes, .50 in fuel and kept everyone safe.
I fly a Mooney, I have to slow down often to space into the pattern. Just last week I had to do a 360 to let someone being stupid have the time to get in safely ahead of me. Cost me 2 minutes, .50 in fuel and kept everyone safe.
Ghery
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Makes me glad my home field is towered (at least from 0800 to 2000 local). I've been asked to extend my downwind for arriving traffic more times than I can recall and it doesn't bother me at all. Last month I even had to do a 360 while in the downwind because a NORDO aircraft was landing (yes, he did coordinate it with the tower in advance) and then nearly had to do a go around as the NORDO aircraft stopped where the two runways cross. He got going in time for my to do a T&G, but the tower had called me to warn of the possibility (which I had already seen and was ready to react to). Did I get upset? No, I didn't. Life happens.
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
We extended our downwind on every landing because of the slower traffic in front of us. Not the same thing as extending an upwind because some jerk is giving you virtually no other good choice. That's the point exactly, this guy should have widened his crosswind, extended it, and entered the downwind on a 45. It would hardly have been a measurable difference to him and much safer for everyone.
Half Fast
Touchdown! Greaser!
If you're going to continue having these little adventures, I hope you'll update your will. Don't forget your flying buddy who's planeless and would give that Mooney a nice home.
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
I'm being buried in it. But feel free to dig it up and fly it afterward.
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
He might have had to clean a trike off his landing gear, but at least we would have been able to avoid him that way. I didn't see or hear any jumpers at the time, so he'd probably not have chopped anyone up.
Half Fast
Touchdown! Greaser!
wilkersk
Pattern Altitude
"Right base 05, extending for right crosswind 23" means he'll be passing in front of a departing aircraft, climbing toward him with their nose up in the air. Not a place I'd put myself. Then, calling "#2" on the downwind after OP called it, without any attempt at de-conflicting, is another reason to wonder just who cut who off.
But then, as I said, I wasn't there, and we only know one side of the story.
One thing I'd like to know is, where was the 206 before he called "right base 05"? Did OP know he was there? Did he previously enter the pattern for 05, and then change to the runway in use? Did he do a 5 mile base? We just don't know.
Yes, but that’s a very poor way to word it. It should’ve simply been... ‘N123 is right crosswind for 23, has the departing traffic in sight, zephyrhills’.
Leave out anything about runway 5... that’s a good way to cause a lot of confusion and misunderstanding.
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
Not sure about my buddy, but I had no idea the 206 was there until his call about right base. He came in from the south, we had been in the pattern for 3 touch n goes already. We had been dodging traffic the entire time, so we were listening to the radio pretty closely. There had been 3 departures (one rather rude one that pulled out on the runway while we were on short final, annoying but didn't make me curse
) and one full stop entered the pattern and landed before this had happened. All the planes jockeyed around each other and safety was not compromised.
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EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Could have been on flight following and didn't get let go until late. Could be a guy that also owns a 210...
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
Wish I'd had it on recording, I honestly could be wrong about exactly what he said. I remember him saying what I remember to be "right base", but I don't actually remember a runway number, I just remember looking up when I heard it and he was right where I expected him to be (right base) based on what I heard, just a bit closer than I expected.
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idahoflier
Pattern Altitude
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idahoflier
Since everyone was using the radio, if in doubt ask. "206, are you going to follow the skycatcher or are you going to get ahead of the skycatcher?"
EugeneR
Pre-takeoff checklist
Our very busy towered airport becomes an uncontrolled field after 6pm since April due to COVID and reduced staffing.
I totally forgot about that and came in just after 6pm. Never again, it was a total zoo. A few planes (ranging from jets to 152s) on the ILS doing straight-in, planes approaching the pattern from different directions and a couple of trainers already in the pattern. There was also a usual 1000agl cloud deck building up on the upwind side, so everyone tried to stay away from it.
Even with ADS-B it was quite stressful.
What’s funny, there was no one in the pattern just 15 minutes after I landed. I should’ve just stayed away for a while and come back when there are less planes in the pattern. I usually do it when flying to uncontrolled fields, I guess the unusual circumstances played their role (the tower is normally open until 10pm).
I totally forgot about that and came in just after 6pm. Never again, it was a total zoo. A few planes (ranging from jets to 152s) on the ILS doing straight-in, planes approaching the pattern from different directions and a couple of trainers already in the pattern. There was also a usual 1000agl cloud deck building up on the upwind side, so everyone tried to stay away from it.
Even with ADS-B it was quite stressful.
What’s funny, there was no one in the pattern just 15 minutes after I landed. I should’ve just stayed away for a while and come back when there are less planes in the pattern. I usually do it when flying to uncontrolled fields, I guess the unusual circumstances played their role (the tower is normally open until 10pm).