After 1.5 years and OVER $125k, I finally got my SI

MalibuJim

MalibuJim

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MalibuJim
Well, it was a 1.5 year fight with the FAA and I finally got my 3rd class SI, now good for only 3 months, then back to AME for 6-month renewals, for the next 5 YEARS.

Seems like I have taken (and passed) EVERY medical test known to man, (aero-cog, psych, heart, brain) including an unnecessary Angiogram JUST to satisfy the FAA.

I pity anyone else who is going through this process and would suggest some just give it up as the FAA is out of control.
 
It really is criminal that they made you go thru that much BS and $$$$$. What a bunch of scumbags. Most people don’t even make that much money in 2 years. Congratulations on getting your medical though.


How long did it take from submission of your records to receiving the SI?
 
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$125K!? That's ridiculous! Agree, the FAA is out of control. Glad you made it through. If you can, suggest you go the BasicMed or Sport Pilot route and never look back.

The sad thing is some pilots are going to read about your experience and forgo a trip to the Dr. when they really need help...
 
For the next 3 months, your medical expenses for flight total $1,388 and change per day. Did an alien crawl out of your chest while in a FSDO office and run around biting inspectors in the ass?

I imagine top overhauls, avionics, and the price of insurance all seem so very insignificant right now.

Eesh.
 
So sorry to hear that. This is one of the reasons I no longer support AOPA. They should not let this happen. Pure bureaucracy without limits.
 
schmookeeg said:
For the next 3 months, your medical expenses for flight total $1,388 and change per day. Did an alien crawl out of your chest while in a FSDO office and run around biting inspectors in the ass?

I imagine top overhauls, avionics, and the price of insurance all seem so very insignificant right now.

Eesh.
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Unfortunately there is no need for butt aliens.
 
The for cash recath was a killer.....
This is America, where, we are still free to spend amazing $$s to convince the FAS that we can operate with equivalent safety.
 
MalibuJim said:
Seems like I have taken (and passed) EVERY medical test known to man, (aero-cog, psych, heart, brain) including an unnecessary Angiogram JUST to satisfy the FAA.
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There is another aspect to this - some of these procedures have serious health risks. The FAA requiring them on thin evidence is really quite contrary to helping airmens’ health.

Surely this must win some type of prize for persistence. Enjoy your flying as PIC !
 
bbchien said:
The for cash recath was a killer.....
This is America, where, we are still free to spend amazing $$s to convince the FAS that we can operate with equivalent safety.
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The FAA required him to have an invasive procedure?
 
I had a stress treadmill test that showed I was perfect. Then they required I had another one 6 months later that raised some questions. Then I had another one and that didn't clear things up. Then I had a nuclear heart test. That didn't provide clear answers. Then I had a CT Angiogram, which came back fine with no issues, only to find that the FAA does not accept CTA tests. So, the only way to prove I was good was to get an ELECTIVE angiogram, which came back PERFECT. Mind you this was just for the heart.

I was preparing to have to sell the plane. I got my SI 4 days before the annual expired. Now the plane is in the shop for the next 3 weeks!

My SI expires in 3 months, then I have to see my AME, EVERY 6 MONTHS for the next 5 YEARS!
 
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Would seem like the evidence that you didn't drop dead in the time it took to take all those tests should be a significant piece of evidence warranting longer than a 3 month SI...
 
idahoflier said:
$125K!? That's ridiculous! Agree, the FAA is out of control. Glad you made it through. If you can, suggest you go the BasicMed or Sport Pilot route and never look back.

The sad thing is some pilots are going to read about your experience and forgo a trip to the Dr. when they really need help...
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Seriously considering Basic Med, but if I ever need a SI in the future, it would require me to start my quest all over again and prove I am healthy all over again.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Would seem like the evidence that you didn't drop dead in the time it took to take all those tests should be a significant piece of evidence warranting longer than a 3 month SI...
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I SERIOUSLY doubt 95% of ALL the airmen can pass all the tests I had to go through. I think the PSYCH EVAL and the 2 day Aero Cog tests would wipe out half the pilot population alone.
 
idahoflier said:
$125K!? That's ridiculous! Agree, the FAA is out of control. Glad you made it through. If you can, suggest you go the BasicMed or Sport Pilot route and never look back.

The sad thing is some pilots are going to read about your experience and forgo a trip to the Dr. when they really need help...
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Many pilots do give up, and the statistics prove that. When I read those statistics, I was wondering why so many did not pursue their medical with the FAA, now I know why.
 
I'm impressed by MalibuJim's tenacity in successfully navigating all of that bureaucratic excess...

And also very glad that for the type of flying I do, BasicMed is an option!
 
MalibuJim said:
Seriously considering Basic Med, but if I ever need a SI in the future, it would require me to start my quest all over again and prove I am healthy all over again.
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OR, go Basic Med and if you ever have a condition that would re-start all the SI hoops, switch over to Sport Pilot and buy an LSA. You can buy a pretty decent LSA for what that SI cost you.
 
Jim, you have a special issuance, so if you do Basic Med you do not need to go through the six month reassessments as long as your personal physician does not believe your safety demands it.

Do you still fly commercially or with some operational needs for which Basic Med is inadequate?

Jon
 
4CornerFlyer said:
Jim, you have a special issuance, so if you do Basic Med you do not need to go through the six month reassessments as long as your personal physician does not believe your safety demands it.

Do you still fly commercially or with some operational needs for which Basic Med is inadequate?

Jon
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I only fly now with class 3. I don't fly commercially even though I hold a comm license. There is a few reasons NOT to go to BasicMed.

1. 18k limitation, not that big of a deal, but 5%+ of my flying is over 18k.
2. While my health has been proven impeccable, ANY problem from now (53yo) and the rest of my flying that might need a SI in the future would negate all my expenses, time and efforts IF I want to fly with a Class 3 ever again with an SI. I really don't want to go through what I went through again.
3. I do fly to Mexico and Canada and BasicMed did limit Mexico, although not anymore, but Canada still isn't accepting basicmed. I can live with that.

The FAA considers me "good to go" only after the 5 years of the SI.

A huge reason I am considering BasicMed is because of the fact I don't like the idea of the FAA controlling my life. I would love to tell them to F/O and go Basic, but that could have long term ramifications if I ever need an SI again, and it could be something simple that may require an SI in the future.
 
So, here is what led up to this. My colleagues and I had flown commercially to Las Vegas for the CES show in January 2018. After walking about 10 miles all day (no liquids), we took a taxi to dinner. During our 3 hour dinner, I had three alcoholic drinks and no water. I wasn't feeling any of the effects of alcohol. After paying the bill, I stood up from the barstool and promptly fainted. I learned later this is called a Syncope episode, caused by dehydration. It had never happened before and never happened after. But because I injured my face, "while consuming alcohol" I have been labeled an alcohol abuser by the FAA. This is now their official label of me. I had to give up ALL alcohol, I have undergone 20 RANDOM alcohol tests to insure I have NOT been drinking AT ALL. I have about 70 more "random" tests over the next 5 years to perform. I am not ashamed about any of this and am happy to share anything with anyone in the hopes it helps someone else realize how out of touch the FAA is.

FYI - I have a clean driving record (10 years the FAA required) Never did anything illegal. I never had anything adverse on my FAA form, including DUI.

I have been to Chicago (twice) Seattle and Los Angeles to see various Doctors. I have had 3 brain MRI's, 2 CT scans (all negative for anything adverse), countless other doctors in my area, including cardiologists, neurologists, GP's, optometrists, ophthalmologists. Every step of the way I get a clean bill of health. It's like the keep moving the finish line on you. You give them what they ask for, then they want more.
 
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MalibuJim said:
...2. While my health has been proven impeccable, ANY problem from now (53yo) and the rest of my flying that might need a SI in the future would negate all my expenses, time and efforts IF I want to fly with a Class 3 ever again with an SI. I really don't want to go through what I went through again.
...
I would love to tell them to F/O and go Basic, but that could have long term ramifications if I ever need an SI again, and it could be something simple that may require an SI in the future.
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Not exactly. See https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/basic_med/ . There are only 3 things requiring a 1-time SI under Basic Med. (1) Certain mental health problems including substance abuse (sounds like you already have this one covered), (2) a neurological disorder, and (3) certain cardiovascular issues.

Other health problems, like sleep apnea or diabetes, don't trip the need for an SI. You might want to look into the Basic option a bit more. I don't know how it plays out with any need to continue monitoring over the next 5 years, or whether you could take a drink now and then. If you can live with not flying to Canada (for now) and flying a tad lower, Basic might make your life a lot easier.
 
As long as you stay healthy the third class sounds the way to go. 10 more physicals, what, another $2,000.00? You ALWAYS have the Basicmed option unless you suffer from one of the above health problems @Half Fast mentioned.

As far as your situation and how you got here... All I can say as it is unconscionable what FAA Aeromedical put you through. Best of luck to you and Blue Skies!
 
Half Fast said:
Not exactly. See https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/basic_med/ . There are only 3 things requiring a 1-time SI under Basic Med. (1) Certain mental health problems including substance abuse (sounds like you already have this one covered), (2) a neurological disorder, and (3) certain cardiovascular issues.

Other health problems, like sleep apnea or diabetes, don't trip the need for an SI. You might want to look into the Basic option a bit more. I don't know how it plays out with any need to continue monitoring over the next 5 years, or whether you could take a drink now and then. If you can live with not flying to Canada (for now) and flying a tad lower, Basic might make your life a lot easier.
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There are a lot of arguments for going to basicmed. Believe, me it is under serious consideration. After fighting this fight, it would be simple and easy to go to basic med. Not sure I want to toss all my efforts to get a class 3 again. I have it, I earned it the hard way.
 
idahoflier said:
As long as you stay healthy the third class sounds the way to go. 10 more physicals, what, another $2,000.00? You ALWAYS have the Basicmed option unless you suffer from one of the above health problems @Half Fast mentioned.

As far as your situation and how you got here... All I can say as it is unconscionable what FAA Aeromedical put you through. Best of luck to you and Blue Skies!
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10 more physicals, and 70 more random alcohol tests at about $100 each. Commercial travel out of state 10 times to my HIMMS AME...
 
MalibuJim said:
After walking about 10 miles all day (no liquids), we took a taxi to dinner. During our 3 hour dinner, I had three alcoholic drinks and no water. I wasn't feeling any of the effects of alcohol. After paying the bill, I stood up from the barstool and promptly fainted. I learned later this is called a Syncope episode, caused by dehydration.
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How in the world did the FAA ever get involved with this from an alcohol perspective? Given the set up, you could have been sitting at the bar, not drinking anything, stuffing yourself with jalapeno poppers and still ended up flat on the floor. You were dehydrated in Vegas. Doesn't matter what month it is, that is common. The passing out part from dehydration isn't all that common, but it sure isn't rare either.
 
Ugh! This is a nightmare sorry you have had to endure this nonsense.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
How in the world did the FAA ever get involved with this from an alcohol perspective? Given the setup, you could have been sitting at the bar, not drinking anything, stuffing yourself with jalapeno poppers and still ended up flat on the floor. You were dehydrated in Vegas. Doesn't matter what month it is, that is common. The passing out part from dehydration isn't all that common, but it sure isn't rare either.
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Because when I fainted, I landed on my face and was admitted to the hospital. The med express asks if you were admitted to the hospital. Being honest with the hospital I told them exactly what happened, not expecting to have to produce the actual hospital records to the FAA. Once the FAA see hospitalization, injury, and alcohol in the same form, you are labeled an abuser since you were injured while consuming alcohol. It really is that simple. All the other tests requested by the FAA were to keep me from flying EVER again. No good could ever come by EVER letting an "alcohol abuser" fly ever again.
 
MalibuJim said:
I SERIOUSLY doubt 95% of ALL the airmen can pass all the tests I had to go through. I think the PSYCH EVAL and the 2 day Aero Cog tests would wipe out half the pilot population alone.
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Considering the cogscreen-ae is administered to people with ADHD (OMG thats me! Hii) and pretty much all airline pilots being hired, I would say that's an over-exaggeration!

Seriously though, congratulations. It always makes me smile when I see somebody get their medical after hearing about their journey, especially yours. That is ridiculous. Can you keep us updated for when you have to check-in with your AME again in 6 months?
 
Way to stick with it Jim, hopefully there are no more issues for you. I too would probably continue the 3rd class medical if it were I, for the same reasons.
 
MyDimeIsUp said:
Considering the cogscreen-ae is administered to people with ADHD (OMG thats me! Hii) and pretty much all airline pilots being hired, I would say that's an over-exaggeration!
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Have you seen the general population of GA pilots? (not airline pilots)
 
RussS said:
I feel like it’s time someone does something about the FAA and their medical branch. This is outrageous!!
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Well, when you find them, give them my name and I will be happy to share my story with anyone that will listen.
 
RussS said:
I feel like it’s time someone does something about the FAA and their medical branch. This is outrageous!!
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Here’s the problem... that “someone” would have to be Congress. Congress, on those increasingly rare occasions when they do what they’re actually supposed to do, represents about 330 million people who couldn’t care less about how restrictive it is for us, the less that 0.2% (so we must all be super rich jerks) to go fly those dangerous little planes right over their houses at 100 feet like we do all the time.

It could happen, but I’m not holding my breath.
 
Well, Congress did do something in passing Basic Med , which tacitly acknowledged that the FAA medical system was broken and unworkable for many. It is far from a perfect solution, but it is what we have. Given the dysfunctional American political system, I wouldn't expect any improvement on this, or of any other problem, in the foreseeable future.

Jim, you can think of your battle to get the 3rd class medical certificate as winning the ability to fly Basic Med without FAA involvement potentially for the rest of your life. Do the restrictions this places on your flying outweigh the cost and inconvenience of complying with the requirements to keep the 3rd class?

Jon
 
Of course these people care very little about us in the grand scheme...but what if we generate a letter laying out all of the ridiculousness that is FAA medical and everyone on here and APOA and wherever else who has been affected sends it to their respective congressman(or woman). That would get the same information and concerns to many different congresspeople at the same time from constituents in their district. One person here or there probably has very little chance, but we as a whole surely must have some voice.
 
RussS said:
Of course these people care very little about us in the grand scheme...but what if we generate a letter laying out all of the ridiculousness that is FAA medical and everyone on here and APOA and wherever else who has been affected sends it to their respective congressman(or woman). That would get the same information and concerns to many different congresspeople at the same time from constituents in their district. One person here or there probably has very little chance, but we as a whole surely must have some voice.
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Maybe we could even organize ourselves into some sort of association made up of owners and pilots of aircraft and use that for lobbying leverage.

Oh wait.......
 
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