Buying a Saratoga HP and looking to redo the entire panel

D

Dan Horowitz

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
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Flushing Airport
I've just joined this forum today Friday Oct 25. I've been reading extensively to learn and need some feed back if possible. I spoke to Saratoga and a couple other shops. I don't know if this is over kill. I'll be flying from Long Island to Florida and back starting next spring. I don't love touch screens so I've some questions. I currently fly from KFRG for the last 25 years.All have suggested
G500 TXI. I like the earlier model G500 with buttons.
GTN 750. Do I absolutely need the GTN 650 as a second radio? The plane has KX 165 Nav/Coms. Can I use one as a second radio or should it be replaced?
GTX 345
The plane has a KFC 150. I want the GFC 500. Will it work with the G G500 or do I still need a G5?
JPI 730.
Any feed back would be much appreciated.
 
If you're going that far, add in a GNC 355 and replace the KX 165. Then you'll have an redundant WAAS, a 2nd comm, and it will all be controlled by the g500. That is, assuming the legacy g500 will integrate with the 355. The 750 will give you any ILS and if there's an ILS there's a LPV approach.
 
Help us out here - what plane is all this panel candy going into?
 
Thank you. I had asked one of the shops and they said the GTN 650 displayed more info but I did not think it was needed.
Dan
 
G500 can’t drive GFC500. Need to have a G5. Not happy about that one as G500 puts out GPSS. Seems to be a way to support GFC600 sales. G3X will, but that’s touchscreen.
 
The plane I'm planing on putting this into is a 1993 or later Saratoga HP. All is going to be a 70th Birthday present to myself next spring time. I've never owned an airplane, brother did though. I figure to make it exactly the way I want it and be done. Not having to constantly look to up grade this or that.
 
The GFC 500 sounds like your end game, not a bad choice at all. 10 years ago I chose to avoid touch screen in an upgrade, at the time I had become accustomed to the 430 530 "buttonology" and felt more comfortable with buttons. Bad choice. The G500TXI and the G5 have the CAN technology that feeds the GFC 500. A 165 is certainly a formidable backup provided it's display and indicator are in good shape. Keep in mind all of the software you will find yourself immersed in and endeavor to keep it to one manufacturer, you will find an easier time working thru the conflicts of the updates. Today's avionics suites are so integrated, from the audio panel, navigators, to the ADSB transponder, as well as, the flight control system, all controlled by software that must play well with others.
 
I just called Garmin. I was told if you get the TXI, you don't then need the G5. I asked to speak to Randy Stewart who heads up their panel mounts. He will call me later and I'll get to the bottom of this from the horses mouth sort of. Will keep you posted on his reply.
Bob Weber said:
The GFC 500 sounds like your end game, not a bad choice at all. 10 years ago I chose to avoid touch screen in an upgrade, at the time I had become accustomed to the 430 530 "buttonology" and felt more comfortable with buttons. Bad choice. The G500TXI and the G5 have the CAN technology that feeds the GFC 500. A 165 is certainly a formidable backup provided it's display and indicator are in good shape. Keep in mind all of the software you will find yourself immersed in and endeavor to keep it to one manufacturer, you will find an easier time working thru the conflicts of the updates. Today's avionics suites are so integrated, from the audio panel, navigators, to the ADSB transponder, as well as, the flight control system, all controlled by software that must play well with others.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bob. Randy Stewart called me back this morning but I was in a meeting. He gave me his cell and email. He and I go back to 1995 when I had my first hand held. A Garmin G90. That little 2"X 2" screen was a great unit. The following is what I'm leaning towards now but since I'm not doing anything till around my birthday in March turning 70, I still have time to mix and match my thoughts. See what you think of this . By the way I hated the 430. 530 was easier to work and read for me with glasses on.

G 500 TXI
GTN 750/ GNC 355
GTX 345 . I want both in and out
GFC 500. I've used for years the S TEC 55. Not a fan of it.
As for the G5, I've been told you don't need it if you have the TXI as long as you do a battery back up which is a hell of a lot cheaper I think
Flightstream 510
JPI 730
Below is the actual plane on Controller I was looking at but after closer examination of the panel I can see the 165s are shot. I've a call into
Chris at Wild Blue asking him how much the plane has been flown in the last year. According to Flightaware, nothing. That will mean a factory reman will be in order

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/155257531/1994-piper-saratoga-ii-hp

Always appreciate the feed back

Dan
 
my first hand held. A Garmin G90. That little 2"X 2" screen was a great unit.

I still display this GPS 55 in my museum room! I ran it for years in an old go fast boat for a speedometer
 

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Bob Weber said:
my first hand held. A Garmin G90. That little 2"X 2" screen was a great unit.

I still display this GPS 55 in my museum room! I ran it for years in an old go fast boat for a speedometer
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Kool!!!
 
Dan Horowitz said:
Kool!!!
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Talk about older. In 1968 I started at The Academy of Aeronautics at LGA. We were told when buying all our tools to only buy Craftsman. All of mine for the most part 51 years later look as good as new and are all stamped with Forged in the U.S.A. U.S. Pat and the number. In the 51 years that I have them I've only broken one item. In the 90s I broke my duck bill pliers. When I went to sears, the salesman was shocked saying he's never seen a US one fail. He then said go over to the pliers and pick out any package you want NC. All the early Craftsman tools are stamped made in the US. The garbage coming out of China is stenciled USA. I just looked at 2 pliers to check them out. The one from 1968 is bright and shinny. The one from the 90s rusty looking. None of the tools have ever been outside.
 
Bob Weber said:
The GFC 500 sounds like your end game, not a bad choice at all. 10 years ago I chose to avoid touch screen in an upgrade, at the time I had become accustomed to the 430 530 "buttonology" and felt more comfortable with buttons. Bad choice. The G500TXI and the G5 have the CAN technology that feeds the GFC 500. A 165 is certainly a formidable backup provided it's display and indicator are in good shape. Keep in mind all of the software you will find yourself immersed in and endeavor to keep it to one manufacturer, you will find an easier time working thru the conflicts of the updates. Today's avionics suites are so integrated, from the audio panel, navigators, to the ADSB transponder, as well as, the flight control system, all controlled by software that must play well with others.
Click to expand...

Hi Bob. I flew last Saturday with a touch screen up state NY. I was using a Cheetah Flight Pad along with a GTN 750 and a GTX 345 in a Warrior. The plane also has 2 G5s. The thing I don't like and never will is the fact the finger prints on the screen makes the screen fade clarity wise after a while. I hate that on my phone too. I'm constantly cleaning the screen . If I can find a Legacy 500 like new and then put in a G5 along with the GTN 750 to run the GFC 500 I'm going to be happier. Mind you I've been flying with hand held for the last 25 years. G90, G195, G295 and now my Flight pad. Another pilot was telling me this weekend he does not like the JPI 730. Any opinions or suggestions on that one?
 
Dan Horowitz said:
Hi Bob. I flew last Saturday with a touch screen up state NY. I was using a Cheetah Flight Pad along with a GTN 750 and a GTX 345 in a Warrior. The plane also has 2 G5s. The thing I don't like and never will is the fact the finger prints on the screen makes the screen fade clarity wise after a while. I hate that on my phone too. I'm constantly cleaning the screen . If I can find a Legacy 500 like new and then put in a G5 along with the GTN 750 to run the GFC 500 I'm going to be happier. Mind you I've been flying with hand held for the last 25 years. G90, G195, G295 and now my Flight pad. Another pilot was telling me this weekend he does not like the JPI 730. Any opinions or suggestions on that one?
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Dan I've not seen a JPI I didn't wish I could get in a twin 8cyl. version! This being said, any equipment installed in anything, is only as good as the workmanship of the installation. The engine monitors I installed years ago were much simpler but still were effected by shoddy workmanship.
 
Bob Weber said:
Dan I've not seen a JPI I didn't wish I could get in a twin 8cyl. version! This being said, any equipment installed in anything, is only as good as the workmanship of the installation. The engine monitors I installed years ago were much simpler but still were effected by shoddy workmanship.
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You should have taken more care when you installed them. :p
 
Salty said:
You should have taken more care when you installed them. :p
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My sideline passion has always been racing, when I saw the first engine monitor all those years ago I was fascinated with the wealth of information. I tried to place the EGT probes in an effort to sample the same area of the flame on each cylinder, my goal was to have a flat line across the display.

Around 20 years ago I got to meet an amazing offshore racing team owner. After crawling all over the boat, I asked him whether onboard engine analyzers would help. I suggested a plate between the head and the header assembly, he seemed curious about it but when I talked to Insight, they had no 8 cyl versions available.

Today Garmin has some wonderful equipment that provides it all, this is the panel I built for my boat 10 years ago, including a nice big chart plotter. A nice big push button chart plotter...
 

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Salty said:
You should have taken more care when you installed them. :p
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Incidentally it was the yards of excess wiring left by whoever installed it and indiscriminately placed sensors that I found myself troubleshooting, clean up, and relocating the sensors went along way.
 
Bob Weber said:
Dan I've not seen a JPI I didn't wish I could get in a twin 8 cyl. version! This being said, any equipment installed in anything, is only as good as the workmanship of the installation. The engine monitors I installed years ago were much simpler but still were effected by shoddy workmanship.

Installation is always the key. I worked at Butler Aviation in 1970-71 at KLGA as an A&P. We were top notch at doing the work. We serviced ITT and all their Gulfstream 1. We also did work on Hugh Hefner's Bunny Jet just to name a couple. For me I'm not the type that does anything based on price. If one company charges 20% more than 5 others I'm the type that will go to the more expensive shop simply because there is always a reason they charge more. Be it they pay their people more, have higher overhead or the reputation for being the best at what they do. I've already gotten prices anywhere from $100,000 -130,000 from Sarasota. As we all know, you get what you pay for. But it's still too early to do anything.

Last Monday I picked up another pilot friend at SMQ to take him to get his Columbia/Cessna 350. He's owned it with the Garmin G1000 for seven years. He just had put in the plane a Garmin GTX 345R. I went for a flight in his plane and found that we were doing 190 knots at 5000' on 19 gallons per hour. He swears by his plane. I last did a PALS flight with him 4 yrs ago in it but have not had a chance to fly it left seat. He's going to arrange for me to fly with his CFI so I can get an idea how the plane feels. I've 70 hours in Cirrus but don't like hand flying it. The one I used had the STEC 55. His has the GFC 700. He says his is much better plane in handling and comfort. I have to try it to get an idea. I'm still looking at all the candy out there. Don't like Cirrus or Mooney. Do like the Rockwell 115 but hard to get parts for the plane. I still have 5 months before I'm going to decide but will keep you informed.
Dan
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I'd just take all that panel money and put a down payment on a PC-12. :D
 
Rockwells aren’t that hard to find parts for. Maybe not as easy as a 172 or Cherokee, but hardly unobtanium like other makes. Magnesium surfaces for Beechcraft, otoh....
 
flyer770 said:
Rockwells aren’t that hard to find parts for. Maybe not as easy as a 172 or Cherokee, but hardly unobtanium like other makes. Magnesium surfaces for Beechcraft, otoh....
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Thx
 
One thing to keep in mind is the installation. It took nearly five months to do my 310. Twice as long as I was quoted... :mad2: In fairness they did remove a lot of crap. So far I only have two items on my punch list...:goofy:
 
Forget the G500. Get the G3x. Much better solution, and it will drive the GFC500
 
Dan Horowitz said:
You hit the nail on the head with the G3X. Just watched this and have to agree.
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Having flown behind one for 3 months now, it's just a whole different world. I've got friends with G600 Txis in their planes and this is better.
 
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