Thinking About Removing Tree Stumps from Runway

Ted

Ted

The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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As those of you following my "thinking about" threads have noticed, we're going to build a runway (and a hangar) on our property. This weekend we're hosting a chainsaw massacre in which we're going to chop down the trees that are going to be on the runway in some form. Some are more or less down the centerline of the runway, some are off to the sides where we're clearing them just in case of some idiot with long blonde hair not able to keep the plane centered on the runway. Most of them are pretty small - I think the largest one is maybe 18" diameter, most are under a foot.

The question then becomes the best way to deal with the stumps. Options that come to mind:

1) Set them on fire (literally)
2) Pull/push them out with tractors or bulldozers (some of them I'll be able to do myself with my tractors and front end loaders, some I won't)
3) Have the stumps ground down

Pros/cons of each? Airplane will be a Cub. Putting tundra tires on it is something I'm considering doing (and in fact a lot of me wants to do that). My understanding is the primary problem with grinding the stumps down is that they'll continue to decay into the ground. Although if they just get pulled and then have the dirt filled in then they also will need some "touching up" as time passes. Not having much experience with this, curious on thoughts for the best ways to go.
 
No matter what method you decide to use, in 5-10 years you are going to have holes in the runway that will need to be re-filled and graded as the roots rot.
I've used each of those techniques on my property over the years and there are always holes.
 
Shepherd said:
No matter what method you decide to use, in 5-10 years you are going to have holes in the runway that will need to be re-filled and graded as the roots rot.
I've used each of those techniques on my property over the years and there are always holes.
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That's kind of what I was thinking, too. In which case going with whatever is easiest seems the way to go.
 
Dynamite has got to be one of the most fun ways to remove stumps... the remaining hole can be a handful to fill but there's no stump left to rot and settle over the years. Actually, the remaining stumphole is usually funnel shaped and easy to fill and if you're rolling the runway flat after grading you shouldn't have to worry about future settling. Dynamite usually takes the roots with the stump if you get down under the stump. You're going to have to fill holes no matter what technique, might as well do it once and have fun.:rolleyes:
 
How many trees? If you're diligent and your time is worth about a nickel an hour, you can dig (or doze) out the stumps, and then dig out the roots by hand. Been there, done that. I looked at it as a segment of my fitness program.
 
diabolical said:
Dynamite has got to be one of the most fun ways to remove stumps...
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Fun indeed.
Just be sure you're not too close to the house. (or the dynamite lol)
Many years ago where I lived before, they strip mined up to within about 100 yards of my house. Some of the windows did not survive.
 
Always leave your stumps at least 4 feet tall. this gives you a better lever to pull them out.

Better to tip the tree over prior to cutting it off the root ball.
 
I’ve used a bucket on the front of a tractor to remove stumps by digging enough to get underneath and pry them up. Never tried to drag them out by pulling. Definitely don’t like possible flying chains or straps. Cats work well but the tracks tear everything to hell.
 
Clark1961 said:
I’ve used a bucket on the front of a tractor to remove stumps by digging enough to get underneath and pry them up. Never tried to drag them out by pulling. Definitely don’t like possible flying chains or straps. Cats work well but the tracks tear everything to hell.[/QUOTE

Chain doesn't stretch, so it doesn't store energy and won't go flying if things break loose. Straps (and ropes) are big rubber bands. When they turn loose and release the stored energy, stuff can go flying...
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An excavator is the best stump removing tool. You already had this discussion. The only thing new is now you’re talking Cub with Tundra tires. Put some 35s on the plane and a smooth surface won’t be important.
 
Both also come in handy if you decide to take on that hangar project by yourself.
 
Two and a half years ago, we had five large hybrid poplar trees cut, and the stumps ground on three of them. These are the ones you buy mail order as large sticks, and they then grow to 50 feet in height in 10 years and start dying at 15, they are as fast growing and weak wooded as they come.

Shortly after they were cut and ground, I removed the ground wood and filled in the hole with soil, then planted grass seed. Since that time, the holes have not sunk at all. At the same time, we had a Bradford Pear removed, its stump ground, and the surface roots removed. (tree service guys refer to this as "chasing the roots") The guys who sodded the lawn removed the ground wood and filled in the hole, it has not sunk either. While I have had to top dress some spots where they have sunk, it has always been from water movement, not from roots decaying. If you do a decent job of grinding the stumps (and carting away the ground wood), there isn't that much wood left underground to decay.

I don't think you'll have much success burning stumps. Since you just cut a living tree, it will take a number of years for it to die, and the stump wood is green, wet, and hard. I was out in the back yard on Sunday rototilling it in advance of putting down grass seed, and went over to one of the two remaining stumps to see how much effort it would be to remove it. This is from a weak wooded tree that died three years ago and was cut two and a half years ago. I tried taking a whack at it with a railroad pick, and found that the center was still hard, so I'll be calling the tree service to get it ground.

When doing sitework, the big boys usually push the trees over with some sort of large tracked piece of equipment, I don't know how far you'd get with a wheeled tractor. It also makes a big hole for you to fill in.

I'd go with the stump grinder. If you want to do it yourself, you can rent one. You probably want one of the 25 hp ones since you have some decent sized stumps.

My feeling on projects, after having done them for about 35 years now is do it right, do it once, enjoy it for a long time.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
That's kind of what I was thinking, too. In which case going with whatever is easiest seems the way to go.
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Pulling the stumps provides a little bit more longevity for your project. Blowing the stumps into the next county provides more entertainment and a little more longevity. Good luck.
 
kyleb said:
How many trees? If you're diligent and your time is worth about a nickel an hour, you can dig (or doze) out the stumps, and then dig out the roots by hand. Been there, done that. I looked at it as a segment of my fitness program.
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The total will be something on the order of 20.

Stewartb said:
An excavator is the best stump removing tool. You already had this discussion. The only thing new is now you’re talking Cub with Tundra tires. Put some 35s on the plane and a smooth surface won’t be important.
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I'm old so my memory doesn't work very well anymore.

From what I've been able to research, it seems most people put 26" wheels on Cubs and there's an STC readily available for that. I imagine in Alaska things are a little different - but how do you go about approval for bigger? Also, at what point do you consider

Given what I'm reading so far, sounds like grinding the stumps is the way to go. I'm more likely to pay someone to do it than do it myself, but it depends on what it'll cost.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Given what I'm reading so far, sounds like grinding the stumps is the way to go. I'm more likely to pay someone to do it than do it myself, but it depends on what it'll cost.
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I don't think having ground stumps is what you're looking for. That's making your problem a long term problem. A dozed for half a day isn't expensive and you can take care of leveling the ground st the same time. We've cleared lots of mature oaks and left smooth ground. With the trees completely gone, you'll be able to groom the ground a lot easier to correct any problem spots.
 
Cooter said:
I don't think having ground stumps is what you're looking for. That's making your problem a long term problem. A dozed for half a day isn't expensive and you can take care of leveling the ground st the same time. We've cleared lots of mature oaks and left smooth ground. With the trees completely gone, you'll be able to groom the ground a lot easier to correct any problem spots.
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Fair enough, but I'm also not going to try to level the ground myself, I'll pay someone else who's better with a dozer. I suppose it's worth getting some quotes both ways.

That said, it sounds like it's a long term problem no matter what.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Fair enough, but I'm also not going to try to level the ground myself, I'll pay someone else who's better with a dozer. I suppose it's worth getting some quotes both ways.

That said, it sounds like it's a long term problem no matter what.
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It depends on how deeply rooted the trees are. A decent dozer operator will leave it smooth, it'll just take him a little more time. He can break up the roots too which will make things easier when your ready to start seeding. I don't remember off hand but I think around here it was around $450/ half a day $800/day for someone to bring their dozer out. It's been a while so I could be off with that.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
That said, it sounds like it's a long term problem no matter what.
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Not if you push them out with a dozer, then walk dirt back into the hole with that dozer (no need to worry about 95% compaction in this case, 90% is plenty). If you do this you shouldn't have any future movement...or very minimal/isolated at worst...since pushing with a dozer will also remove a significant percentage of the roots.

I'll be pushing mine. especially the ones that have been used for fence posts over the years, it's just too awkward trying to fell decent sized trees by cutting at chest height...above fence height to make sure imbedded barbed wire isn't waiting to eat the chain saw's teeth.

And, unlike what was said above, you don't need to leave 4' sticking up out of the ground if you push with a dozer. A decent sized dozer will push stumps far shorter as long as there's enough sticking up to catch it with the blade (16" to 2'). I'd say this is especially true in your area where you have good dirt. On the property I'm buying, otoh, it'll likely take a little more umphh considering the shallow soil...the anchor roots are probably hooked into the bedrock pretty solidly.

The other thing to consider is that root wads typically won't burn. You might want to consider burying them somewhere on the property out of the way (if local ordinances, if any exist, don't prohibit it).
 
Cooter said:
A dozed for half a day isn't expensive and you can take care of leveling the ground st the same time.
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A two-fer.

And I know a guy that might have a line on where to get a dozer for a week at a time, or where to find someone who can do that sort of thing.
 
timwinters said:
Not if you push them out with a dozer, then walk dirt back into the hole with that dozer (no need to worry about 95% compaction in this case, 90% is plenty). If you do this you shouldn't have any future movement...or very minimal/isolated at worst...since pushing with a dozer will also remove a significant percentage of the roots.

I'll be pushing mine. especially the ones that have been used for fence posts over the years, it's just too awkward trying to fell decent sized trees by cutting at chest height...above fence height to make sure imbedded barbed wire isn't waiting to eat the chain saw's teeth.

And, unlike what was said above, you don't need to leave 4' sticking up out of the ground if you push with a dozer. A decent sized dozer will push stumps far shorter as long as there's enough sticking up to catch it with the blade (16" to 2'). I'd say this is especially true in your area where you have good dirt. On the property I'm buying, otoh, it'll likely take a little more umphh considering the shallow soil...the anchor roots are probably hooked into the bedrock pretty solidly.

The other thing to consider is that root wads typically won't burn. You might want to consider burying them somewhere on the property out of the way (if local ordinances, if any exist, don't prohibit it).
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More good tips. Thanks, Tim.

We have enough property where disposing of the roots won't be an issue, although I'll admit to having not checked local ordinances.

Matthew said:
A two-fer.

And I know a guy that might have a line on where to get a dozer for a week at a time, or where to find someone who can do that sort of thing.
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Even better. If I could get one for a full week for a reasonable price then I'd be more inclined to try doing it myself. My concern is renting one for a day and ending up spending the whole day messing around with it and not getting the hang of it.
 
To bad you aren’t little closer and I wasn’t so busy with harvest. I have a dozer, excavator and skidloader with chipper head. Personally if I was pushing the trees I would prefer you didn’t cut them at all. Just makes more work for me. When I bid a tree job I usually bid 100$ per tree for average of the small and large ones. That includes leveling hole. One of my landlords has been trying to help me by cutting limbs on trees. Told him I don’t know if you drink a beer for each limb or what but I could take the trees out you’ve been cutting in about ten seconds with dozer. He stopped cutting.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Even better. If I could get one for a full week for a reasonable price then I'd be more inclined to try doing it myself. My concern is renting one for a day and ending up spending the whole day messing around with it and not getting the hang of it.
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You met my contractor buddy - his neighbor on the other side rented a CAT, maybe a D5(?), for a week. He got a pretty good deal from some place close to Bonner Springs - I think he knows the owner. He was leveling out an area for a 40x60 shop and doing a good job of it until he hit a shelf of sandstone that needed different equipment to break up. He'd never driven one before, but he said it was easy to learn. I do not know how he refueled it, or if he needed to. He said the rental company wouldn't let him have anything larger without showing building permits or some other paperwork.
 

Chains will stretch, but if something breaks then the individual links all act together to deaden the released force and absorb all the energy, similar to throwing a jacket or such over a stretched wire rope. (Or "cable" for the casual layperson.)
 
Theboys said:
To bad you aren’t little closer and I wasn’t so busy with harvest. I have a dozer, excavator and skidloader with chipper head. Personally if I was pushing the trees I would prefer you didn’t cut them at all. Just makes more work for me. When I bid a tree job I usually bid 100$ per tree for average of the small and large ones. That includes leveling hole. One of my landlords has been trying to help me by cutting limbs on trees. Told him I don’t know if you drink a beer for each limb or what but I could take the trees out you’ve been cutting in about ten seconds with dozer. He stopped cutting.
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Understood on not cutting them at all. In the end I think it's worth doing because it helps us to make the runway dimensions figured out before we have the equipment on-site. We know roughly where it'll be, but being able to walk the runway and see real dimensions will help, and when you're walking through the property it's harder to get a real feel for a straight line. Ultimately this isn't entirely as clear cut (pun intended) as some jobs.

Matthew said:
You met my contractor buddy - his neighbor on the other side rented a CAT, maybe a D5(?), for a week. He got a pretty good deal from some place close to Bonner Springs - I think he knows the owner. He was leveling out an area for a 40x60 shop and doing a good job of it until he hit a shelf of sandstone that needed different equipment to break up. He'd never driven one before, but he said it was easy to learn. I do not know how he refueled it, or if he needed to. He said the rental company wouldn't let him have anything larger without showing building permits or some other paperwork.
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Once the trees are down we'll get a better idea on the next step of clearing the stumps out and getting the runway going. I was originally figuring sometime next year, but if there's a good opportunity to borrow a dozer and play around with it in the nearer term, I'd be all for that...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Once the trees are down we'll get a better idea on the next step of clearing the stumps out and getting the runway going. I was originally figuring sometime next year, but if there's a good opportunity to borrow a dozer and play around with it in the nearer term, I'd be all for that...
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If you can find someone with the knowledge to help you buy a good one, you could probably get the work done for free, or close to it. And have a lot more time to play around with it. I sold most of my property but that's what I had in mind before I sold. Airplanes aren't the only fun toys to own. ;)
 
Cooter said:
If you can find someone with the knowledge to help you buy a good one, you could probably get the work done for free, or close to it. And have a lot more time to play around with it. I sold most of my property but that's what I had in mind before I sold. Airplanes aren't the only fun toys to own. ;)
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Honestly, not interested in buying one.
 
This thread also needs a mention of paying up the life insurance, like the motorcycle for birthday thread. :)
 
I'd drill down into it and packet full of tannerite. Then have a good ol' BBQ with a target competition!
 
ARFlyer said:
I'd drill down into it and packet full of tannerite. Then have a good ol' BBQ with a target competition!
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That'd be fun, but artillery practice would be a lot more fun. Why do all the work to pack with Tannerite when the projectile can carry the HE to the target? :)
 
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