Adsb only in Bravo airspace?

Wade

Wade

Pre-takeoff checklist
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So I was looking at a nice 172 for sale and the guy is a self proclaimed expert on everything type.

So we start talking ADSB and he said he just went to a training and was taught that the FAA is only going to enforce ADSB in Class B airspace. I disagreed and said I hadn't heard that and was looking at the FAA website that says CLASS C to surface requires ADSB out.

I ask what was the training? Who put it on? Etc. and he was very vague.
So is this guy delusional or what?
 
Class A, class B out to 30 mile mode c veil and class C and above 10k feet is all required....


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(d) After January 1, 2020, and unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft in the following airspace unless the aircraft has equipment installed that meets the requirements in paragraph (b) of this section:

(1) Class B and Class C airspace areas;

(2) Except as provided for in paragraph (e) of this section, within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed in appendix D, section 1 to this part from the surface upward to 10,000 feet MSL;

(3) Above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport upward to 10,000 feet MSL;

(4) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, Class E airspace within the 48 contiguous states and the District of Columbia at and above 10,000 feet MSL, excluding the airspace at and below 2,500 feet above the surface; and

(5) Class E airspace at and above 3,000 feet MSL over the Gulf of Mexico from the coastline of the United States out to 12 nautical miles.


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He probably hoped you would fall victim to his theory. Bad sales tactic.

ADSB-out will not only be required in Big airspace, unfortunately.

Edit: :yeahthat:
 
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And E above 10k feet and also the existing mode C veil area


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Ryanb said:
He probably hoped you would fall victim to his theory. Bad sales tactic.

ADSB-out will not only be required in Big airspace, unfortunately.

Edit: :yeahthat:
Click to expand...


Yeah he was getting defensive and said he has sold 20 planes last year and knows what he is talking about. Think I'll pass this one LOL!
 
What's the details of the aircraft. I am looking. Don't care if the seller knows about adsb or not

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Nice plane. New-ish paint and interior. High time 6 cylinder engine. 430 is nice, two radios. I don't ADS-B anything in that panel. Ancient transponder.
 
Wade said:
So we start talking ADSB and he said he just went to a training and was taught that the FAA is only going to enforce ADSB in Class B airspace.
Click to expand...

ADS-B Requirements per Airspace
Airspace Altitude
A All
B From the ground up within the Mode C ring
C From the ground up
E Above 10,000 ft MSL but not below 2,500 feet AGL
 
Pretty much everywhere you need mode C now. It's not that hard. The few exceptions (straight in-out from certain airports) are gone, but the under-the-veil airports and the provision for aircraft without electrical systems remains.
 
"unless otherwise authorized by ATC"

Denver Approach, Nxxxx, no ADSB, request to transition the Bravo"
Nxxxx, cleared into the class Bravo.

Problem solved?
 
eb87f said:
"unless otherwise authorized by ATC"

Denver Approach, Nxxxx, no ADSB, request to transition the Bravo"
Nxxxx, cleared into the class Bravo.

Problem solved?
Click to expand...

Today if you did that with no Mode C, the answer would be "remain outside the Bravo".

I have gone under the Denver Bravo inside the Mode C veil prior permission from the TRACON via TELEPHONE, but I doubt they'd let you make a habit of it, nor would approve it over the air.
 
citizen5000 said:
ADS-B Requirements per Airspace
Airspace Altitude
A All
B From the ground up within the Mode C ring
C From the ground up
E Above 10,000 ft MSL but not below 2,500 feet AGL
Click to expand...

This is what po's me! Right now I can fly under Class C w/o a transponder. In 2020 I will need ADSB out!
 
I know that technically you don't need Mode C now for Flight Following, but I wonder if after 2020 they'll provide FF to an aircraft without ADS-B?

flyingron said:
Pretty much everywhere you need mode C now. It's not that hard. The few exceptions (straight in-out from certain airports) are gone, but the under-the-veil airports and the provision for aircraft without electrical systems remains.
Click to expand...
 
Why would ATC care? ADS-B doesn't make a difference to the controller's providing traffic advisories. Of course the FAA could get vindictive and arbitrarily say you're on your own if you don't put in ADS-B (like they built into the TIS-B system), but that's even more reprehensible than the FAA Is now.
 
JohnAJohnson said:
So you don't know? Does anyone know if FF will require ADS-B?
Click to expand...

Do you fly through class B or C airspaces with FF?
Do you fly through a mode-C veil with FF?
What about Class E above 10,000 ft MSL but not below 2,500 feet AGL?

If the answer to either of those or to any of the restrictions that @gsengle or @citizen5000 posted then I think this has already been answered.
 
Caramon13 said:
Do you fly through class B or C airspaces with FF?
Do you fly through a mode-C veil with FF?
What about Class E above 10,000 ft MSL but not below 2,500 feet AGL?

If the answer to either of those or to any of the restrictions that @gsengle or @citizen5000 posted then I think this has already been answered.
Click to expand...

No. It has not been answered. I've read the requirements listed on https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/airspace/requirements/

  • Class A, B, and C airspace
  • Class E airspace areas at or above 10,000 ft MSL over the 48 states and DC, excluding airspace at and below 2,500 ft AGL
  • Airspace within 30 nautical miles (nm) at certain busy airports from the surface up to 10,000 feet MSL; airports listed in appendix D to part 91.
  • Above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area up to 10,000 feet MSL
  • Class E airspace over the Gulf of Mexico at and above 3,000 feet MSL within 12 nm of the coastline of the United States
Any airspace that requires the use of a Transponder today will on January 01, 2020 also require aircraft to be equipped with a Version 2 ADS-B Out system.
Click to expand...

It is the last sentence I am inquiring about and how it might relate to Flight Following. ATC will not give you FF if you don't have a transponder, and might not give you FF without Mode C. I also understand that you can fly IFR without a transponder, but the difference is that FF is workload permitting.

FAA regulations, especially ones that haven't been field tested yet, don't always cover all possibilities and there are always gray areas when interpreting (just ask more than one FSDO). So I'm not looking for a reference to a reg, but opinions (or inside knowledge) of what will happen in the real world after 2020.
 
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Wade said:
So I was looking at a nice 172 for sale and the guy is a self proclaimed expert on everything type.

So we start talking ADSB and he said he just went to a training and was taught that the FAA is only going to enforce ADSB in Class B airspace. I disagreed and said I hadn't heard that and was looking at the FAA website that says CLASS C to surface requires ADSB out.

I ask what was the training? Who put it on? Etc. and he was very vague.
So is this guy delusional or what?
Click to expand...
Was this before or after he told you not to worry about a pre-buy inspection?
 
JohnAJohnson said:
No. It has not been answered. I've read the requirements listed on https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/airspace/requirements/

It is the last sentence I am inquiring about and how it might relate to Flight Following. ATC will not give you FF if you don't have a transponder, and might not give you FF without Mode C. I also understand that you can fly IFR without a transponder, but the difference is that FF is workload permitting.

FAA regulations, especially ones that haven't been field tested yet, don't always cover all possibilities and there are always gray areas when interpreting (just ask more than one FSDO). So I'm not looking for a reference to a reg, but opinions (or inside knowledge) of what will happen in the real world after 2020.
Click to expand...

Hmm...ok. Sounds like you answered your own question. What hasn't been answered about your question in either the posts above or the links you posted? Confused....
 
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