Learn me about P-ponk conversions

I'll never forget the first time my wife rode in my 180 after converting a 100 hour factory 470 and 88" 2-blade to a Pponk with an 86" 3-blade. Not an inexpensive upgrade but just seconds after lifting off she looked over and said that was the best money I ever spent on an airplane. I've never wanted to switch back and don't know a single owner who has. I have considered upgrading another step by installing an IO-550. I may have already done it if my Cub project's budget wasn't straining my aviation budget. If I keep the plane long enough it'll happen.

1000' x 15' strip. 100' trees on one end with a common 15-25mph quartering crosswind. Downdrafts and sinkers are common as the wind rolls over the trees. More power has a clear advantage.Heck, that's precisely why a upgraded. A buddy has a strip with lower trees on one end but a lake at the other threshold. Prevailing wind sends you over the lake on most days. He has 400' and flies a straight tail 182 with a 470. He opted for wing extensions and Sportsman cuff to improve his safety. Does he wish for more power? Absolutely. He's working on it.
 
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Stewartb said:
I'll never forget the first time my wife rode in my 180 after converting a 100 hour factory 470 and 88" 2-blade to a Pponk with an 86" 3-blade. Not an inexpensive upgrade but just seconds after lifting off she looked over and said that was the best money I ever spent on an airplane. I've never wanted to switch back and don't know a single owner who has. I have considered upgrading another step by installing an IO-550. I may have already done it if my Cub project's budget wasn't straining my aviation budget. If I keep the plane long enough it'll happen.

1000' x 15' strip. 100' trees on one end with a common 15-25mph quartering crosswind. Downdrafts and sinkers are common as the wind rolls over the trees. More power has a clear advantage.Heck, that's precisely why a upgraded. A buddy has a strip with lower trees on one end but a lake at the other threshold. Prevailing wind sends you over the lake on most days. He has 400' and flies a straight tail 182 with a 470. He opted for wing extensions and Sportsman cuff to improve his safety. Does he wish for more power? Absolutely. He's working on it.
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Understand, and for that sort of ops, it's certainly a benefit. That's just not the norm for *most* 182s. That word "most" is what Jose kept purposefully ignoring. I'd love to see what any larger engine combined with our Robertson kit would do. At sea level elevations, liftoff is already slow enough that about half of the available right rudder is needed. More torque might make that become a limiting factor.
 
Your "most ops" comments are curious considering you fly an R/STOL equipped
airplane. ;)
 
Stewartb said:
Your "most ops" comments are curious considering you fly an R/STOL equipped
airplane. ;)
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Why? I wouldn't expect "most" ops to be what we can do with the Robby. When I look through FlightAware and other sources, it's confirmed. Most 182s don't do backcountry. There's a lot of 182s out there.
 
Alaska has a lot of offield air landing strips. Some of them just sandbars and such. So do some places in the lower 48. The Husky takes off shorter than it lands, usually. That's how much power you need. So you can take off and land in the same distance.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Alaska has a lot of offield air landing strips. Some of them just sandbars and such. So do some places in the lower 48. The Husky takes off shorter than it lands, usually. That's how much power you need. So you can take off and land in the same distance.
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Well the P.Ponk definitely doesn't give you that in a 182... not even close. Maybe an IO-550 conversion from Texas Skyways, lightly loaded. But not at max gross.
 
A guy that's flown the same 180/182 for several years can always land shorter than he can leave. The Pponk power and the right prop, like my C401-86, is the great equalizer. Definitely. I have friends who do the wing mods but I don't see them visiting when the winds are bad. I like stock Cessna camber lift wings and lots of horsepower. Other guys like other things. Pick the plane that does what you need it to. It's all good.
 
Shawn said:
I was REALLY close to pulling the trigger on the PPONK as I am due for an overhaul.

Talked to them at length and got numbers from them...they said in reality they are seeing a 5-8 knot increase in cruise speed. Where they shine is the climb performance more than cruise..they will climb like a bat outta hell. You can get to 2000 hour TBO I believe if you add on the upgraded oil filter at install.

I was the same as you...why wouldn't you do it? Not that much more and you would make that up in resale. But I think I have talked myself outta it and just going with standard factory reman. There are only a few props that are approved with the PPONK, and of course my was not compatable...so by time I added prop which I am not due for, all the bells and whistles from PPONK and of course would want to protect that investment with at least a basic engine monitor I was starting to climb into the high $50's to low $60's once it was all said and done all in.

By comparison I am looking at a $30K quote for a factory reman. Still need to install and decide if I want a EI 30P monitor...but the extra price for the benefits was not adding up for my missions. I have only had one flight in the past three years where I could have used that extra climb performance. Would it be nice?...yes as I often run at full gross. Necessary?...no...more of a luxury than necessity for me as high DA is not as prevalent in most of my missions. If I lived in the hot desert or higher altitude airfield...it would have been a no brainer.

...but everyone I have heard from in the past few months loves theirs and there are no regrets, so it is not at all a knock...just sharing my experience for my 182P.
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Hi Shaun,
I saw your post discussing the rebuild of your C182 for $30,000. Can you tell me what shop did your rebuild? I have a C182P and it needs a rebuild.
Thanks
 
Rocketman90251 said:
Hi Shaun,
I saw your post discussing the rebuild of your C182 for $30,000. Can you tell me what shop did your rebuild? I have a C182P and it needs a rebuild.
Thanks
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You should note Shaun's post was made in 2016. That $30K rebuild is laying in a ditch somewhere, with nothing left of the body except a skeleton.
 
Back end of an upgrade on a 182. Not sure of which type.
 

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Rocketman90251 said:
Hi Shaun,
I saw your post discussing the rebuild of your C182 for $30,000. Can you tell me what shop did your rebuild? I have a C182P and it needs a rebuild.
Thanks
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Yeah...those were numbers being quoted many many moons ago...wish I could get an overhaul for $30k today!
 
pponk isn't even in business they were known for anymore. Some shop in MN called Northpoint bought the conversion and calls it XP470. Their website appears rather obscure on the offering, showing their only pricing bundled with some ludicrous all-airframe and avionics retrofit package listed at $370K. '

The only thing you can get from pponk these days is the paper STCs to install alternative engines on pre-restart 182s. If injected then the airframe modifications to the fuel system are also on you and your A/P. Basically they're out of the business for all intents and purposes.

as to $30K installed? Maybe, on field overhaul to new limits with re-worked cylinders and accessories on a Lyco 4-banger (new cylinders on angled valved will def put you over, but parallel valved ones you could probably swing it if you shop around). But Contis? forget it.
 
I fly a 180 with a 520. I have Never had an issue with cylinder head temperatures. PPonks will run on car gas, they are low compression. to say that the power falls off at high DA is correct, it’s a ******** statement, all NA engines drop off, but you started with more. Burns too much fuel? If I want to run around at Husky speeds, I pull power back and burn LESS fuel than the husky at the same speed, I’ve flown both extensively.
Safety margin? Yes, just because there aren’t published numbers doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I base out if KGWS, I’ve watched many 182’s with 470’s use up a lot if runway and wallow after lift off in the summer, it visually obvious when a 520 plane takes off. It’s like the difference between loaded light and loaded over gross.
I routinely operate at high DA, telluride in the summer where in a cool morning DA is 11,000, GWS in the mid afternoon in the summer where DA is 8000 plus, a hayfield at 8000’ at gross with air temp in the high 70’s to low 80’s. Can it be done with a 470? Sure,but a 520 makes it not even a question.
I run around most of the time at 18” 2300 burning between 10.5 and 11 gph. Pull it back more and I can run around indicating 100 mph burning 7.8 to 8.5 gph.
If I had a 470 powered plane that needed an engine, I’d do the 520 without hesitation.
 
Moot, since PPonk is out of the business of building and delivering these conversions. It does lock in a pretty good resale gig for existing owners of this now orphan conversion, since it permanently restricts supply.

Does anybody know what Texas Skyways quotes for these franken carbed 520 retrofits in 2023? I can't imagine you get out the door for less than 60k with inflation. I suppose if I stole a bare bones airframe, I could turn it into a climb monster for about the price these things are going for stock. That would be a bit better bang for one's buck.

I always thought 230hp was too wimpy for the -235 -182 class 4-seaters. These things really come to life with at least 260hp, like their legacy retract counters. 285/300hp mo' better of course.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Moot, since PPonk is out of the business of building and delivering these conversions. It does lock in a pretty good resale gig for existing owners of this now orphan conversion, since it permanently restricts supply.
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Pponk sold the STC to Northpoint, and Northpoint has a dozen or so shops around the country authorized to build the engines. How does that make the conversion an "orphan?" What am I missing...?
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
Pponk sold the STC to Northpoint, and Northpoint has a dozen or so shops around the country authorized to build the engines. How does that make the conversion an "orphan?" What am I missing...?
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Wrong choice of words. I meant Pponk doesn't build engines themselves anymore.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Wrong choice of words. I meant Pponk doesn't build engines themselves anymore.
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But even when PPonk was still Pponking (PPonk still exists by the way, they just sold off the O-470-50 STC) they still had licensed PPonk build shops. No different from how NorthPoint handles it now, aside from the fact that PPonk is no longer on the list. So even vintage PPonk conversions were likely not done by Mr. Knopf himself.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Moot, since PPonk is out of the business of building and delivering these conversions. It does lock in a pretty good resale gig for existing owners of this now orphan conversion, since it permanently restricts supply.

Does anybody know what Texas Skyways quotes for these franken carbed 520 retrofits in 2023? I can't imagine you get out the door for less than 60k with inflation. I suppose if I stole a bare bones airframe, I could turn it into a climb monster for about the price these things are going for stock. That would be a bit better bang for one's buck.

I always thought 230hp was too wimpy for the -235 -182 class 4-seaters. These things really come to life with at least 260hp, like their legacy retract counters. 285/300hp mo' better of course.
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$75k just for the engine. $10k for install and $20k for a prop
 
Supereri said:
$75k just for the engine. $10k for install and $20k for a prop
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oof-old-man.gif


I figured as much. Where's my skis, I got a shark to jump. :D
 
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