Can I hire a small plane to transport someone on oxygen?

Lonny Meinecke

Lonny Meinecke

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Lonny
Hi all,
Please forgive my naivete on this, but we have a friend who needs to fly a couple states away, because ground travel is too distressing (and takes too long). He is on (lots of) oxygen and a commercial altitude wouldn't work out even if permitted. Is it possible to hire a regular private plane/pilot to help transport him along with the tanks or concentrator? The charters we see so far are really expensive (14k) - we are hoping for more like 5k or so to go about 1300 miles (one way, to various care facilities).

Please reply asap, if you can help inform us on this in some way. Thanks!
-- Lonny
 
To be legal with the FAA it would have to be 1) scheduled commercial (which you've ruled out), 2) Pt. 135 Charter (which is most likely what you've been pricing) or 3) You/he rent an airplane and hire a commercially rated pilot to fly it.

If I were a commercial pilot and I did it at cost for the airplane rental (Cessna 172, probably not pleasant for the distance, but cheap) you'd be looking at $1300 one way just for airplane and fuel. So double that: (I've got to get home, right?) $2600 counting nothing for my time. I doubt you'll get much cheaper than the $5K you've already found.

John
 
Have you considered Angel Flight?
 
RotorDude said:
Have you considered Angel Flight?
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While Angel Flight is used for transporting patients to and from care facilities, it's not as simple as just scheduling the flight.

There are certain criteria that helps to ensure the safety of the flight and that someone isn't just gaming the system for free transportation. From the Angel Flight South Central's web site. http://www.angelflightsc.org/passengers/request-a-flight

REQUEST A MEDICAL FLIGHT

Angel Flight South Central's (AFSC) primary mission is to arrange free flights for patients requiring scheduled medical treatment not available to them locally. This can include chemotherapy, radiation therapy, and a variety of other specialized therapies or surgeries. In addition, we will help patients travel for qualified second medical opinions recommended by their physician. Other humanitarian requests are considered on a case by case basis.

Angel Flight South Central does not require that a passenger meet financial guidelines to qualify for a flight, however we ask that our passengers demonstrate a compelling need before they ask for transportation, as each mission represents a significant cost to a volunteer pilot. Our pilots donate their time, aircraft, and all expenses involved to help people who otherwise would not be able to travel for medical treatment or for other compelling humanitarian reasons.

You will find all the forms you need available for download below. If you have further questions, please call our office toll free at 888-500-0433.

Note: We do not provide Air Ambulance or emergency rescue services.

Requesting a Flight for the First Time

The following criteria need to be met for all Angel Flight South Central passengers:
  • All passengers must be ambulatory and able to climb in and out of a small plane by stepping up 16 to 20 inches with limited assistance.
  • Passengers must be able to sit upright for the duration of the flight (seats do not recline).
  • Angel Flight South Central is best used for flights that are 1,000 miles or less from origin city to destination city.
  • A qualified doctor, nurse, or social worker needs to complete and sign the Medical Passenger Request Form (click here to download). It is the patient's responsibility to ensure we get the proper paperwork in a timely manner.
  • Paperwork should be submitted at least 5 business days prior to the day the flight is needed.
  • Passengers must not require any medical treatment during the flight. A small aluminum oxygen canister is permitted on the flight, but other large pieces of medical equipment are not permitted.
If you qualify for an Angel Flight, please have a social worker or doctor complete the request form and fax or email it to our office.​


Also keep in mind that setting up multi-leg flights is just as iffy as when we did the monkey relay. Often they do come together, but frequently the mission is scrubbed because one of the legs goes unfilled. (which is why I encourage all who qualify to become an AF mission pilot... there aren't enough of us to meet the demand!)
 
And if altitude is an issue in a pressurized aircraft, it's gonna be a real problem on an unpressurized one.

While you can fly legally at 500 feet above the ground, it's not very safe, and it's only legal in the middle of nowhere. And it's gonna be hot as hell most places this time of year.

If you were to fly with me, I'd want to be at 3500 feet, minimum. Much more if there are any mountains to cross.
 
jsstevens said:
To be legal with the FAA it would have to be 1) scheduled commercial (which you've ruled out), 2) Pt. 135 Charter (which is most likely what you've been pricing) or 3) You/he rent an airplane and hire a commercially rated pilot to fly it.

If I were a commercial pilot and I did it at cost for the airplane rental (Cessna 172, probably not pleasant for the distance, but cheap) you'd be looking at $1300 one way just for airplane and fuel. So double that: (I've got to get home, right?) $2600 counting nothing for my time. I doubt you'll get much cheaper than the $5K you've already found.

John
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And continuing the C172 line of thinking... You'd be looking at 10-11 hours to complete a 1300 mile one way journey, not counting the need for 3 (maybe 4?) stops for fuel and comfort/coffee. So that would be one very long day of travel. Toss in a headwind and.....


Lonny... we appreciate you asking of us members of the beer and pretzel brigade of general aviation could help you. But unfortunately, there aren't many of us with the right aircraft or other resources to provide the level of assistance you're asking for.

But an idea is to get the best charter rate you can, then do a www.gofundme.com or www.plumbfund.com campaign (or some other crowdfunding). We saw one with a similar request recently shared with us get fully funded in a decent amount of time. Hopefully you and your friend could have similar results.
 
MAKG1 said:
If you were to fly with me, I'd want to be at 3500 feet, minimum.
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If you're with me, we're at 7000MSL minimum, just to get out out of the heat.
 
I'd think the best bet is an organization like Angel Flight East. www.angelflighteast.org Angel Flight West or south central or anyone of the other public benefit flying organization is the area where you are departing from.
 
Lonny Meinecke said:
Hi all,
Please forgive my naivete on this, but we have a friend who needs to fly a couple states away, because ground travel is too distressing (and takes too long). He is on (lots of) oxygen and a commercial altitude wouldn't work out even if permitted. Is it possible to hire a regular private plane/pilot to help transport him along with the tanks or concentrator? The charters we see so far are really expensive (14k) - we are hoping for more like 5k or so to go about 1300 miles (one way, to various care facilities).

Please reply asap, if you can help inform us on this in some way. Thanks!
-- Lonny
Click to expand...


"Airplanes for hire" are HIGHLY regulated and the FAA is very particular on this point. Its an expensive industry to get in, and remain in, and they have pretty much every aspect of their operations reviewed by the FAA. Hence the cost of the charters. There are a few nuances, and they have been hinted to above, to get around the charter/airline route such as YOU renting the plane (providing the plane) and you hiring a suitable pilot separately. Thing is, nobody in the plane rental business (as opposed to chartering the plane and pilot from a charter outfit) is going to rent YOU a plane that YOU aren't qualified to fly. Especially when it becomes clear you are trying to circumvent a charter. And any smart pilot who realizes whats up would likely turn it down. Your options would remain pilots and operators who should know better.

I have pretty extensive healthcare experience, including a long stint in ground transport and a shorter stint in fixed wing medical transport. Commercial cabins are pressurized to 8000 ft or so. The fractional charters are in similar situations. Some might have a slightly better pressurization, depending on the plane. The only other way to keep a "sea level cabin is to fly so low that fuel efficiency suffers and multiple stops are needed. Jets fueling on the ground typically need to be unoccupied, or if its an aeromedical flight the patient and crew remain on, but the engines are off and usually the AC is off too. I dont remember having a ground cart running our AC when fueling patient loaded in my aeromedical days.. It was rare.

If he cannot tolerate a lack of "sea level cabin", keep in mind the typical small plane is unpressurized and will lose cabin pressure as you climb. Smoother rides and cooler temps are found at higher altitudes, several thousand feet above ground. Oxygen concentrators lose efficiency as you climb. When you say he uses "a lot" of oxygen I am concerned that the typical small plane would be able to carry enough oxygen tanks and reserves to meet your needs. Running out sounds like its not an option.

Without knowing the rest of the details, the SAFEST method is to get a comfortable ground vehicle, and drive in short stretches, frequent stops and hotel it along the way, with a concentrator and backup tanks. Trying to cobble this together with a borrowed pilot and plane who is not experienced in aeromedical transport is ASKING for trouble. Or re-evaluate the "need" to fly a couple states a way.
 
AdamZ said:
I'd think the best bet is an organization like Angel Flight East. www.angelflighteast.org Angel Flight West or south central or anyone of the other public benefit flying organization is the area where you are departing from.
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Although I suggested Angel Flight above, now that I think about it, AFAIK most AF organizations don't do the 1300 miles trips that the OP needs (even in relay mode). Add that to the <8,000' altitude (which could be an issue, e.g. crossing any mountain range in IFR, or turbulence at low levels), and I would agree with the poster above who suggested ground transport.
 
Angel flight might know someone with a piston pressurized aircraft that could maintain sea level pressure at a reasonable altitude.

That's a big stretch though.
 
Is train travel an option for your destination? Slow, but likely cheaper than an airline. No altitude problems, room for O2, more comfortable than an auto, meals provided, could get a sleeper, ....

Take the auto train and bring a personal car, if that helps.
 
Lonny Meinecke said:
Hi all,
Please forgive my naivete on this, but we have a friend who needs to fly a couple states away, because ground travel is too distressing (and takes too long). He is on (lots of) oxygen and a commercial altitude wouldn't work out even if permitted. Is it possible to hire a regular private plane/pilot to help transport him along with the tanks or concentrator? The charters we see so far are really expensive (14k) - we are hoping for more like 5k or so to go about 1300 miles (one way, to various care facilities).

Please reply asap, if you can help inform us on this in some way. Thanks!
-- Lonny
Click to expand...
Lonny....cabin pressure in a commercial airplane will be less than an unpressurized aircraft. Also, the time and quality of ride will lack in a private aircraft. Your friend will be much comfortable with less flying time going commercial. Trust me, if ground travel is too distressing....he will not find private pilot travel to be better.

I'm not sure why your friend is not able to fly commercial....and thinks a private plane is better?

As was said above....take the train.
 
The train isn't cheaper than an airline unless you live between DC and Boston. And it's MUCH faster to drive, and almost as comfortable.

You only take the train long distance in the US when you don't care if you're several days late and you have a ton of time to burn.
 
MAKG1 said:
And if altitude is an issue in a pressurized aircraft, it's gonna be a real problem on an unpressurized one.
Click to expand...

For a private flight in a pressurized aircraft, you can more easily operate at an altitude where you can maintain sea level cabin pressure. In the 414 I can do that to about 10k.

I think the question is whether the trip would meet the requirements of Angel Flight or another public benefit organization. If the trip is to various care facilities, it might, but hard to tell without the specifics. Also knowing where from and to would help.
 
MAKG1 said:
[snip]

You only take the train long distance in the US when you don't care if you're several days late and you have a ton of time to burn.
Click to expand...

So its pretty much like using piston planes?
 
For a $5k budget, a first class or business class ticket is well within that budget (As long as you don't buy it last minute). Those seats are very comfortable.

If the issue with commercial flights is the quantity of oxygen, then the patient's advocate and patient's doctor needs to discuss the medical need for the flight and need to bring enough 02 with someone at the airline that actually has authority to make this decision. That's not a gate or ticket agent. Likely some paperwork is needed to be reviewed and signed to make the airline happy and breeze you through the boarding process.
 
jsstevens said:
So its pretty much like using piston planes?
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No. Much worse.

It's 14 hours to LA from here on Amtrak IF they are on time. On a piston plane, it's less than three hours. In a car, it's 6-7.

The last time I used Amtrak for a 150 mile trip, I was six hours late. And that was after the scheduled four hour duration. So, a 2 1/2 hour car ride or 1 1/2 hour piston plane ride turned into an all-day trip.
 
MAKG1 said:
No. Much worse.

It's 14 hours to LA from here on Amtrak IF they are on time. On a piston plane, it's less than three hours. In a car, it's 6-7.

The last time I used Amtrak for a 150 mile trip, I was six hours late. And that was after the scheduled four hour duration. So, a 2 1/2 hour car ride or 1 1/2 hour piston plane ride turned into an all-day trip.
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This was my experience going to San Francisco from LA via Amtrak. Boarded the train at 7-8am, arrived at 2am due to various delays. Never again.
 
Airlines will not allow you to bring your own oxygen bottles aboard but they will sell you some and provide the bottle(s) with a Dr. note. You can ship your bottles as freight or luggage but they must be empty. O2 concentrators might be different depending on the airline.
 
Thank you all for your kind replies! It is so nice, even if the solution isn't exactly here yet, to have such nice feedback and supportive comments...
Lonny
 
Ted DuPuis said:
For a private flight in a pressurized aircraft, you can more easily operate at an altitude where you can maintain sea level cabin pressure. In the 414 I can do that to about 10k.

I think the question is whether the trip would meet the requirements of Angel Flight or another public benefit organization. If the trip is to various care facilities, it might, but hard to tell without the specifics. Also knowing where from and to would help.
Click to expand...
That...pretty much any pressurized piston could hold sea level in most any scenario at the cost of some range but in reality not a lot. They do that task very well.

I looked at doing one of these before, except it was an infant. I couldn't get a clear answer from someone as to what would happen if we were to depressurize and ultimately walked away from it as the liability was just too much for me to swallow knowing a single systems failure was going to create a major medical emergency. Man has to know his limits...
 
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