Class D atc question

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Ray F

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Ray F
I'm going to be making a trip to KGGG in the next couple of weeks. After my trip, When I'm departing KGGG, who would I talk to to pick up flight following? Would I ask the Longview tower as I'm departing or call Fort Worth center after I leave the Longview delta airspace? Most of my flying is at uncontrolled fields. I need to brush up on talking to atc.
 
Ask the tower. If youre nice enough, theyll call the other controller and get the information started for you.
 
You would call EasTex ground and then EasTex tower when departing.

You can ask tower if it's possible to for them to set you up with flight following, but I'd probably just ask Longview whoever once you get up.
 
I always start with ground at a Delta towered field: "Longview Ground, Skyhwak 12345 at parking with information Echo ready to taxi, would like flight following to Podunk"

Some towers can set up FF on the ground, some can not. If they are unable just request the departure frequency for flight following while still on the ground and once airborne and they will usually tell ya when you can contact departure if you are not yet already outside the Delta.

I always like to start with ground for FF when possible..that way it is just a handoff to departure rather than having to make contact and establish FF on your climb out. Much less workload. Not always possible but ask.
 
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Several answers from people who have probably not been to Longview. GGG airport is one of the few remaining in the country that has a TRSA. That means all departing aircraft receive radar service unless you specifically decline it. The ATIS will advise you whether to make initial contact on Ground frequency or on Clearance Delivery (even if VFR), and you will be given a transponder code prior to taxi, then a handoff from tower to Departure.
Check the AIM section on TRSA operations if you are unfamiliar.
Jon
 
4CornerFlyer said:
Several answers from people who have probably not been to Longview. GGG airport is one of the few remaining in the country that has a TRSA. That means all departing aircraft receive radar service unless you specifically decline it. The ATIS will advise you whether to make initial contact on Ground frequency or on Clearance Delivery (even if VFR), and you will be given a transponder code prior to taxi, then a handoff from tower to Departure.
Check the AIM section on TRSA operations if you are unfamiliar.
Jon
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You don't even need to have been there. Look at the chart, the TRSA rings are obvious.

Also, FWIW, there are some class D airports with approach control that are not TRSAs. What I would do to find out who to call for radar advisories is to look at an approach plate or consult the A/FD.
 
Like Shawn said, check with Tower and Ground. My input is to ask the ground controller the question on arriving after he/she clears you to your parking area.
 
I fly out of a TRSA Class D airport (KBGM). Ground always sets up my FF unless I specifically decline it (negative TRSA).
 
ripnet said:
I fly out of a TRSA Class D airport (KBGM). Ground always sets up my FF unless I specifically decline it (negative TRSA).
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TRSA (and Class B/C) services may feel like flight following, but they are NOT.

If you want flight following, you must ask for it, or expect to get dropped uncermoniously when you leave the airspace.

Whether to get flight following from Ground or from CD is variable, just like it is at Class B/C or even some larger Class Ds (say, KLGB or KVNY). Listen to ATIS about whom to contact for your "request," and if you guess wrong, you'll just get handed off. No biggie.
 
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MAKG1 said:
TRSA (and Class B/C) services may feel like flight following, but they are NOT.

If you want flight following, you must ask for it, or expect to get dropped uncermoniously when you leave the airspace.

Whether to get flight following from Ground or from CD is variable, just like it is at Class B/C or even some larger Class Ds (say, KLGB or KVNY). Listen to ATIS about whom to contact for your "request," and if you guess wrong, you'll just get handed off. No biggie.
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Good to know. I've never been dropped when leaving the TRSA though, so I guess this airport automatically does FF?
 
ripnet said:
Good to know. I've never been dropped when leaving the TRSA though, so I guess this airport automatically does FF?
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If you tell them your destination, that is sometimes interpreted as a flight following request even if you don't use those words. A normal request for a Class C or TRSA departure would just contain a direction or heading (e.g., "Cessna 123XY departing VFR northwest with Bravo" for a CD request; for Ground, you'll have a taxi request as well).

If you don't, they really don't have a way to do it.
 
MAKG1 said:
If you tell them your destination, that is sometimes interpreted as a flight following request even if you don't use those words. A normal request for a Class C or TRSA departure would just contain a direction or heading (e.g., "Cessna 123XY departing VFR northwest with Bravo" for a CD request; for Ground, you'll have a taxi request as well).

If you don't, they really don't have a way to do it.
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Thanks
 
You're automatically going to get FF services while in the TRSA unless you inform them "negative TRSA services." If you want to continue to get FF outside of the TRSA, you need to let GC/CD know. If you don't, you may get terminated once leaving the TRSA.
 
ripnet said:
Good to know. I've never been dropped when leaving the TRSA though, so I guess this airport automatically does FF?
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A lot do. But some don't. In all cases where I have departed a Class B or C, I have automatically received flight following without asking for it. Like you, never been dropped. OTOH, MAKG2 has been dropped, which just means there is a lack of complete uniformity (or they don't like him for some reason :D)
 
Velocity173 said:
You're automatically going to get FF services while in the TRSA unless you inform them "negative TRSA services." If you want to continue to get FF outside of the TRSA, you need to let GC/CD know. If you don't, you may get terminated once leaving the TRSA.
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The TRSAs and deltas with radar services I've been around will typically set it up for you without even asking. An easy clue that they're coordinating it for you is when ground control asks you what your destination and cruising altitude is and they give you a squawk code that starts with a number other than zero.

The only time my home airport (a class D with radar) won't coordinate it for you is if you specifically ask for no services or if your cruising altitude is too low for the neighboring facilities to see on their radar, which is a somewhat common problem around here.
 
mondtster said:
The TRSAs and deltas with radar services I've been around will typically set it up for you without even asking. An easy clue that they're coordinating it for you is when ground control asks you what your destination and cruising altitude is and they give you a squawk code that starts with a number other than zero.

The only time my home airport (a class D with radar) won't coordinate it for you is if you specifically ask for no services or if your cruising altitude is too low for the neighboring facilities to see on their radar, which is a somewhat common problem around here.
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I would agree with that but not all facilities operate the same. I've gotten services to the edge of a C, to the outer area of a C and well outside of the outer area without specifically asking for FF. Just depends on the facility and who is working. Best practice is to inform GC or CD that you want FF all the way to your destination.
 
MAKG1 said:
TRSA (and Class B/C) services may feel like flight following, but they are NOT.

If you want flight following, you must ask for it, or expect to get dropped uncermoniously when you leave the airspace.
Click to expand...

Other reason you also need to let them know you want FF is you destination will determine what code they put you on. It will vary if staying locally vs outside their sector.
 
midlifeflyer said:
A lot do. But some don't. In all cases where I have departed a Class B or C, I have automatically received flight following without asking for it. Like you, never been dropped. OTOH, MAKG2 has been dropped, which just means there is a lack of complete uniformity (or they don't like him for some reason :D)
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Saginaw Approach (a TRSA) used to routinely drop you when leaving their airspace going north. Their excuse, the one time I asked, was "we don't have handoff capabilities". I thought BS to myself, they certainly hand off IFR aircraft to ZMP. Altitude was the more likely limiting factor, since at the time you had to be at least 6000 to be visible to Minneapolis in that area.

Anyway, "some don't" is definitely correct.
 
I think coming out of B and C they usually ask you for your destination and then just toss it in the computer out of habit.

Once your destination is in there, when you hit the edge of the B or C there's really no special indication that "this guy requested FF/didn't request FF" on the data block/strip, so the controller just hands you off to the next sector like they would any other traffic. Workload permitting of course, since you're VFR.

You get dropped if there's no destination, or get the questioned about where you're going, or the "squawk VFR, frequency change approved, if you'd like further advisories, XXX center on 123.XX" type of thing.

Really bored controllers will sometimes even just ask... "Would you like flight following to your destination?" when they see you're on a local squawk code and no destination info.

There's some method behind the madness, but always just ask for what you want up front and it's rare you won't get it. I didn't ask APA last night for them to handle setting it up ( they can ) but they offered the departure frequency anyway ( I already had it tuned and was headed there next to be a pop up VFR request ) and ended up with an unrestricted climb clearance through the Bravo to 11,500 for grabbing FF, so why not?

That's probably the best thing about FF around here anyway, once you're tagged up and " participating " it's rare to not get a clearance that'll let you cut through the Bravo.
 
azure said:
Saginaw Approach (a TRSA) used to routinely drop you when leaving their airspace going north. Their excuse, the one time I asked, was "we don't have handoff capabilities". I thought BS to myself, they certainly hand off IFR aircraft to ZMP. Altitude was the more likely limiting factor, since at the time you had to be at least 6000 to be visible to Minneapolis in that area.

Anyway, "some don't" is definitely correct.
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There are Class D airports that relay IFR clearances and do IFR handoffs but do not arrange VFR flight following services. So why not TRSAs?

If it's the "we can't have the capability" line, that's a pretty broad brush that might include, "they won't let us."
 
midlifeflyer said:
There are Class D airports that relay IFR clearances and do IFR handoffs but do not arrange VFR flight following services. So why not TRSAs?

If it's the "we can't have the capability" line, that's a pretty broad brush that might include, "they won't let us."
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It wasn't a matter of not arranging FF. I was already on FF and was just transiting the TRSA. They terminated my FF using that as the excuse. I should also say that that wasn't the only time I flew through their airspace en route to the north, and had been handed off to ZMP in the past, and since. As I said, I suspect I was too low at that time.
 
A classic example was the old pre-SFRA HEF. There was some sort of ****ing match between them and IAD where they wouldn't give VFR squawk codes to HEF departures. What HEF would do was authorize a frequency change to approach pretty much from the moment you left the ground.

Generally my rule of thumb:

1. It never hurts to ask.
2. Ask for what you want (if you want FF to the destination, ask for that, if you just want out of the class B/C/SFRA/TRSA airspace ask for that). The issue is that if they think you're just trying to get out of the terminal area, they'll give you a local code which can't be handed off.

Oddly, the ONLY people that tend to give me the "radarservicesterminatedsquawkVFRhaveaniceday" bums rush at the airspace boundry is the DC SFRA. Most other ATC outlets seem to presume you want to continue services.
 
azure said:
It wasn't a matter of not arranging FF. I was already on FF and was just transiting the TRSA. They terminated my FF using that as the excuse. I should also say that that wasn't the only time I flew through their airspace en route to the north, and had been handed off to ZMP in the past, and since. As I said, I suspect I was too low at that time.
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I've had requested flight following dropped a few times, exiting airspace. Once exiting OAK Class C to the north, and the other finishing up the LAX Mini Route near SMO. The second was a really nasty place to leave an unfamiliar pilot.

I suppose there could have been high workload on another frequency, but it seemed pretty quiet both times.
 
flyingron said:
A classic example was the old pre-SFRA HEF. There was some sort of ****ing match between them and IAD where they wouldn't give VFR squawk codes to HEF departures. What HEF would do was authorize a frequency change to approach pretty much from the moment you left the ground.

Generally my rule of thumb:

1. It never hurts to ask.
2. Ask for what you want (if you want FF to the destination, ask for that, if you just want out of the class B/C/SFRA/TRSA airspace ask for that). The issue is that if they think you're just trying to get out of the terminal area, they'll give you a local code which can't be handed off.

Oddly, the ONLY people that tend to give me the "radarservicesterminatedsquawkVFRhaveaniceday" bums rush at the airspace boundry is the DC SFRA. Most other ATC outlets seem to presume you want to continue services.
Click to expand...

Gee. At least they said haveaniceday. I like your nomenclature "ATC outlet"
 
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