Help! Whittling down between SR20/22 vs M20M vs TB-20/21

Kent Shook participates on these pages and is a truly outsized individual. He flies a modern Mooney, I think an Acclaim. It can work...

I think Mooney's are great airplanes. But the ingress/egress is "entertaining" for someone my size, and after trying out a friend's for fit a couple of weeks back it left me with the impression that you actually "wear" those airplanes as opposed to just sitting in them. That experience left me with the impression that installing a family of 4 into one would be much like using a Porsche with one door for a family road trip.

It'll work. But I'm not sure one would want to make a habit of it.
 
I'd go with a TB-21 over a Commander

Outside of the whole "manufacturer is still in business" argument, I'm not sure what other reason you'd have to prefer one over the other. The Commander owners never seem to have issues getting most any part.
 
I think Mooney's are great airplanes. But the ingress/egress is "entertaining" for someone my size, and after trying out a friend's for fit a couple of weeks back it left me with the impression that you actually "wear" those airplanes as opposed to just sitting in them. That experience left me with the impression that installing a family of 4 into one would be much like using a Porsche with one door for a family road trip.

You do wear a Mooney, at least I wear mine. I used to load folks into my Cherokee without any big deal, it just took a minute or two. Then again, I used the back seat of my Cherokee very very little. I've yet to use the one in my Mooney, so I'm probably not the right guy to ask. I find the Mooney more facile to ingress than the Cherokee, and am not alone i the impression.
 
It was said that the Mercury astronauts referred to entering the capsule as "putting on the garbage can."

Ouch. :cool:

If we made an auto analogue of the planes discussed (and THAT should get some comments) it might look like this:

Mooney/IO-550 F33 = 2+2 sports car
V35/F33 = Toyota sedan
Commander/SR20/TB21 = Big Buick sedan
A36/RV-10/SR22 = Lexus crossover
Cherokee 6/Saratoga = Dodge Caravan
Seneca = Chevy Tahoe
Aztec = F150
 
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So what would that make the Trinidad? A turbo Renault?

And the Cirri???? Flying airbag


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After thinking about this (and seeing your picture) if you are looking for comfort the SR22 or Rockwell Commander 114 may fit the bill. When i was trying out different planes, These two stood out and planes for "Big People" ( my wife and I are "Little people at 5'7" and barley over 320lb combined and felt like we were swimming in these ):D

I have a friend with a 210 and the one thing I noticed is the seat/dash/"A" Pillar configuration feels a little cramped when getting in even though you are just stepping up. And my Bonanza is roomy lengthwise (for me anyway) but feels smaller than the cirrus or 114.

You just need to keep an open mind to all the ones mentioned here and dont rule anything out until you actually fly them.

IMHO - Comparing a 210 to a mooney is apples to oranges and fruitless....the guy who smiles ear to ear while flying one will probably grumble in the other...Find the one that makes you smile.


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So what would that make the Trinidad? A turbo Renault?

And the Cirri???? Flying airbag

Fixed that :D

Also noticed another new thread about 6-place airplanes, and couldn't help but note they are all load hauling Pipers.
 
Outside of the whole "manufacturer is still in business" argument, I'm not sure what other reason you'd have to prefer one over the other. The Commander owners never seem to have issues getting most any part.

I guess my own perception, we have a couple commanders I see at the home drome that are always in the shop and a Trinidad is faster than any Commander other than a 114TC.
 
I guess my own perception, we have a couple commanders I see at the home drome that are always in the shop and a Trinidad is faster than any Commander other than a 114TC.

Or the Super Commander. That being said, I was under the Impression that both the 114B and TB-20 are low-150kt TAS aircraft around 65-70% power. Although you can get them to the 160's if you want to push it. The Super Commanders will run in the low 170's, but obviously will drink a lot of fuel doing it.
 
Piper Saratoga. Lance would do the trick too, but I don't do the Siamese mag nonsense.
 
Oh god, the Lance has that Magneto? I had two traumatic experiences on an 320-H2AD, one involving a forced landing on my first unsupervised solo.


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Quite a number of good recommendations, but someone is going to do your annual inspections and maintenance. Talk to them, see what they recommend. You might do well to own something they know a lot about. AD and service bulletin research and compliance confirmation, troubleshooting unusual problems, and even finding parts will be much easier and faster with an airplane they are more familiar with.
 
Oh god, the Lance has that Magneto? I had two traumatic experiences on an 320-H2AD, one involving a forced landing on my first unsupervised solo.


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Is there a thread about this forced landing? Curious to hear the story.
 
Oh god, the Lance has that Magneto? I had two traumatic experiences on an 320-H2AD, one involving a forced landing on my first unsupervised solo.

The TB20 uses the dual mag too.
 
Quite a number of good recommendations, but someone is going to do your annual inspections and maintenance. Talk to them, see what they recommend. You might do well to own something they know a lot about. AD and service bulletin research and compliance confirmation, troubleshooting unusual problems, and even finding parts will be much easier and faster with an airplane they are more familiar with.

I'd find a AP who works on type, not find a type your AP works on, kinda the difference between who works for whom.

Besides were not talking any super exotic GA planes here.
 
Mooneys aren't that exotic, but they do have their quirks. And it took me forever to find a local CFI who would instruct in one. All things to consider. Also, think about where the nearest Mooney service center is in relation to you. Not a bad idea to have them lay hands on the aircraft from time to time. Not required, but aircraft maintained by a Mooney Service Center do carry a premium at sale.
 
I'd hire the man over the company.

Just get on the type groups and find a good APIA for your work. I got a 1.3hr flight to my guy, but I'm not paying sevice center or big prices, yet I still get I guy who knows the type.
 
I have no dog in this fight. Nor do I have a ton of experience in most of your choices. Typical internet know-it-all jackass. BUT at least I admit it!

Trinidad - always liked 'em. I have only sat in one. Liked the comfort and vis. Performance specs seem promising if not world-beating. If you have a trusted Socata shop nearby, so much the better.

Mooney - have sat in one real 201J, not in flight, and a factory Acclaim mock-up. More of a sportscar seating position but roomier than it gets credit for. Do not like the USPS mailbox-slit door nor the clean-and-jerk height baggage compartment. Again, performance specs look good, plus likelihood of A&Ps having exp higher tham TB21. Parts probably cheaper/easier to obtain.

Cirrus - Only flown a -20. Modern sportscar (Porsche) interior feel. Very non-airplane! Mx and svc support likely much easier than either of the previous 2. If you aren't a chute-pullin' dope, who cares aboit the stigma? It is still there in a pinch. For thise who cite the 10 yr repack, well, if you can't do the time don't do the crime. Every plane has its own financial idiosyncracy. My reservation would be with the post-crash fires. Mooney is stout without the fireballs. Or pull the chute...

Anti-Cessna - probably didn't read your post carefully enough. I know that you are big. I get the claustrophobe thing, but....much better sightseeing in a high wing. Plus you are sheltered from rain when loading and sun when flying. The 182 is an excellent jack-of-all-trades that you may wish to reconsider. Turbo, non-turbo. Old, new. Retract, non-retract. Glass, steam. Something for everyone, a bajillion parts available and virtually every A/P has worked on one. Short fields. Grass fields. Class B megadromes. You can get in anywhere, hauling a decent load, without risking an extensive downtime if a mx event hits.

Sierra - wide cabin. Two doors. 10-15 kts slower at same fuel burn as 182 plus Beech parts prices (and availability). I had a Sundowner. Faster than it gets credit fir and very comfortable.

Bonanza - narrow cabin, imho. I prefer 2 doors. Beech parts prices are Defense Department-level. Great availability, though, and Conti engines that enjoy LOP ops.

Maybe look into a late-model Dakota. Basically a low-wing 182.

Final thought. 200-250 miles typical trip? If you haven't already, figure out the time difference for every 5/10 kts performance. You may be surprised at how little an extra 15-20 kts really matters on your trip. For the record, I have owned a 1983 Sundowner, 2004 T182T, 2008 Matrix, and now fly a Meridian. So, I have been down the 'what airplane is best for me route' a few times.
 
^^^ I laughed pretty hard at the "clean and jerk height baggage compartment" haha
 
Ouch. :cool:

If we made an auto analogue of the planes discussed (and THAT should get some comments) it might look like this:

Mooney/IO-550 F33 = 2+2 sports car
V35/F33 = Toyota sedan
Commander/SR20/TB21 = Big Buick sedan
A36/RV-10/SR22 = Lexus crossover
Cherokee 6/Saratoga = Dodge Caravan
Seneca = Chevy Tahoe
Aztec = F150

If this is correct, I need someone to point me in the direction of the Pinto or Gremln dealership....
 
J. Christ you giants will need a DC-3 when the kids grow up.

C-206 out of the budget?
 
Mooneys aren't that exotic, but they do have their quirks. And it took me forever to find a local CFI who would instruct in one. All things to consider. Also, think about where the nearest Mooney service center is in relation to you. Not a bad idea to have them lay hands on the aircraft from time to time. Not required, but aircraft maintained by a Mooney Service Center do carry a premium at sale.

I agree. Transitioning from a cherokee wasn't that hard. Just have to be more attentive to airspeeds. The few people that have flown my plane noticed the heavier feel of the yokes, but I don't have much experience in other planes to compare.

Personally, I don't feel it's the right plane for the OP and his family.
 
I agree. Transitioning from a cherokee wasn't that hard. Just have to be more attentive to airspeeds. The few people that have flown my plane noticed the heavier feel of the yokes, but I don't have much experience in other planes to compare.

Personally, I don't feel it's the right plane for the OP and his family.

Flew an M20J the other day for the first time and that was my first impression as well. Like wrestling a bear off the runway compared to a Cherokee. But even though it felt heavy, once in the air it was a rock solid platform in the bumps and clouds. When I was hand flying, I don't think the needle ever left the center.
 
Turbo Renault. Oooff. Great F1 car, but a really crappy road car. Which is it?!!?!?!
 
I agree. Transitioning from a cherokee wasn't that hard. Just have to be more attentive to airspeeds. The few people that have flown my plane noticed the heavier feel of the yokes, but I don't have much experience in other planes to compare.

Personally, I don't feel it's the right plane for the OP and his family.

What is the right plane in your opinion??
 
Interesting, he described the perfect mission for an Aztec.
Large load of people (and growing)
Large load of baggage (and likely growing)
Wants comfort
Wants XC IFR capability (lots of lobsters can attest to that)
Ah well (sigh)
 
What is the right plane in your opinion??

I would say something with a higher useful load. I have a C model, and IMO it's just a glorified 2 seater. The newer planes got longer, but with you having 2 growing kids, I'd be worried that you'd outgrow the plane. My wife and I are a little older, and my kids don't travel with us, so my plane works fine.

I mentioned earlier about a 6 seater 210 or lance/saratoga. Even a fixed gear cherokee 6 could be great. You'd sacrifice speed, but you'd be able to carry the entire family plus baggage. But that's just my opinion based on what I've read. I'd get the wife and try out a few different aircraft, and see what works for you.
 
It all depends on what your long term goals are.

Cirrus airplanes are awesome but I would look into a Piper Cherokee six. Something like this:
https://www.aso.com/listings/spec/V...l=True&pagingNo=1&searchId=24084972&dealerid=

3 1/2 Passengers who are going to need to bring stuff with them wherever they go.

Newborns are going to need bags, strollers, car seats..etc.

Wife is going to need to bring stuff, (I know mine does).

Daughter is not going to stay under 100 lbs for long and she is going to need to bring stuff as well.

If you buy a early Cirrus model now you are going to eventually need to swap out for something else once your family expands.

You also didn't reach your budget and you can buy some cool stuff that an early Cirrus doesn't have.


Just a thought!

Piper six are not slow machines either and a Lycoming 540 is a pretty good engine to have in that price range.

Buy the hot rod when the kids are gone off to college!! :)
 
What is the right plane in your opinion??

So, Mr. Tampico Trauma, how did this plane search actually end up? I am particularly interested, because I am also 6'6", a big fellow, and fly out of the SJV. I'll never have enough airplane to haul all of my children (since I have six), but always like hearing how these discussions end up. FWIW, I used to have an M-20E Mooney before I had kids, and I thought it was fine for space. My legs just go right down in the nose where there is plenty of room for them. I did occasionally take three adult pax in that plane, albeit with less that full fuel, and it was folks in their 20s who wanted to fly enough to fold up anywhere.... you know, like when I received dual in a 150.... Of course, I never had to sit in the back of the Mooney. Anyhow, I fly a Grumman Tiger right now, which I greatly enjoy, but I'm always looking around at high performance/complex airplanes with greater capacities for the occasional long cross-countries. For instance, I have been known to take the high school aged kids back to Amarillo for Christmas, since they play sports and need to be back a little quicker than the elementary kids. The wife hauls the Peanut Brigade in the Excursion. So, did you get a TB-20/21? They look super big inside, seem to have a lot of useful load, and I think I might even be able to non-stop it to Amarillo (fuel stop probably required on West-bound return flight).
 
Don't forget about the rocket motor on the Cirrus. Required to be replaced by time. When they get close the plane gets cheaper and I can't imagine the replacement being cheap. To bad you can't blow it off but you can't.
 
Don't forget about the rocket motor on the Cirrus. Required to be replaced by time. When they get close the plane gets cheaper and I can't imagine the replacement being cheap. To bad you can't blow it off but you can't.
I see what you did there.
 
Yes... I did buy a Maule. And since then I’ve added a little baby girl, Audrey Rose, and a long haired German Shepherd. Holidays are fun. She’ll still haul the mail with three hours of fuel and all five of us on board.

In the end, the safety factor of the 38 mph stall speed coupled with the almost embarrassing simple operating costs make it one hell of a bird.

We opened ourselves up to an entirely different kind of flying altogether.


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