Turning your truck into a fuel truck!

timwinters said:
I'm pretty sure it's 119 gallons max in Missouri. Anything over requires a DOT approved trailer/tank, etc.

Of course, it doesn't matter if you never have an accident or spill but...if you ever do...then your estate will be going to the feds.

I burn mogas, but life's too short to take unwise risks.
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Especially when you can get an old fuel truck, even fuel and boom tender truck for $2500 all legal gear.
 
jnmeade said:
Different state have different laws, including intrastate procedures. If you go across a state line, you will be subject to federal rules. My understanding is the feds will require that a container used to transport gasoline must be built to and labelled as meeting DOT standards, no matter the size. Not the same for diesel. Over 119 gallons, the feds say you have a petroleum cargo vehicle. Placarding is required. A CDL with hazmat may be required. Many times, a farmer or small businessman who only works intrastate ignores these requirements and takes their chances. Whether that is a good idea is subject to discussion.
Is an IBC a good gasoline container?
"9. Can I store petroleum products in your tanks?
We do not recommend storing petroleum products in our tanks because they will permeate (soften) the tank walls. Contact Snyder with your specific application. You will find that aromatic hydrocarbons and halogenated hydrocarbons will not be recommended for polyethylene."
Can you get a DC pump at Farm & Fleet, etc.? Yes. Many of them are rated for diesel or other fluid but specifically exclude use with gasoline. The ones rated for gasoline will start at $200 or so and go on up.
Does your auto insurance allow you to transport gasoline in the quantities you envision?
I use totes for agricultural chemicals and would not use them for transporting gasoline over a public road. Too much risk of puncture and catastrophic fire in even a minor accident.
Check into your laws about truck versus trailer petroleum containers as they may be different.
As an aside, depending on where you fill up, some jobbers or distributors may have requirements for grounding, placarding and safety equipment imposed by law or their insurance policy.
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Many of the regulations you quote simply do not apply if the fuel is used locally for personal use. If you don't want to build a fuel trailer don't, but please don't cite non applicable worthless regulations to scare others away. :nono: We are trying to keep GA viable, and less expensive. Saving $1.30 a gallon is a good place to start.

I've been using my fuel trailer for 15 years, pumped over 8,000 gallons and saved around $10,000.

Oh, and if it were illegal why do they make commercial fuel trailers meeting DOT specs??

http://www.qualityfueltrailers.com/fuel-trailer-types/aviation-fuel-trailers
 
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Henning said:
Nice, yeah, that's the $260 one, I can rig an air compressor powered diaphragm pump with compressor for less and have a compressor to boot.
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When I'm done flying I can sell the fuel trailer for about $3,000. ;)
 
It's a whole lot easier to set up a stationary tank and have the fuel delivered.
 
Geico266 said:
Many of the regulations you quote simply do not apply if the fuel is used locally for personal use. If you don't want to build a fuel trailer don't, but please don't cite non applicable worthless regulations to scare others away. :nono: We are trying to keep GA viable, and less expensive. Saving $1.30 a gallon is a good place to start.

I've been using my fuel trailer for 15 years, pumped over 8,000 gallons and saved around $10,000.

Oh, and if it were illegal why do they make commercial fuel trailers meeting DOT specs??

http://www.qualityfueltrailers.com/fuel-trailer-types/aviation-fuel-trailers
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You need to see what the local state laws are and if you go across state lines you need to address federal laws. This is not hard to do. Otherwise, one does not know if one is illegal or not.
 
jnmeade said:
You need to see what the local state laws are and if you go across state lines you need to address federal laws. This is not hard to do. Otherwise, one does not know if one is illegal or not.
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If a pilot / aircraft owner is buying fuel for their plane locally why are you obessed with interstate transport laws? They NO NOT APPLY for personal use, only if you are selling fuel. :mad2:
 
On to more productive topics.

If you are going to use car gas in your plane you need to have a management plan. Do not take short cuts. Replace the filters every year, replace the hoses every 2-3 years (they deteriorate). Have a sump sampler on the bottom for water extraction and debris collection.

Never let the fuel sit more than 2 months without adding fresh fuel to it before flying. If it is older than 2 months put it in your car.

Do not store your plane with mogas in it. Do not let it sit for more than 30 days without flying it and adding FRESH fuel. Keep the tanks full. Add 100LL if you are not going to fly more than 30 days.

Please don't bore me with your stories about uncle Ted flew with 35 year old gas and never had a problem. My numbers come from EAA accepted guidelines and recommendations by fuel manufactures. Call EAA and argue with them, not me.
 
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i think one thing was left out, was your experience driving a vehicle with a couple hundred gallons of highly flammable liquid in an un-baffled tank. your going to be right on the edge of the max. capacity of that truck so it's going to feel like mush anyway. add the slosh factor and your going to end up with something like PIO. your going to turn a corner feel the back suddenly move to the outside and try to counter-steer and then the oscillation starts. many very experienced truck drivers have driven a fuel truck for the first time and ended up in the ditch.
 
Geico266 said:
...

Oh, and if it were illegal why do they make commercial fuel trailers meeting DOT specs??

http://www.qualityfueltrailers.com/fuel-trailer-types/aviation-fuel-trailers
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Duh! Maybe because they sell fuel trailers that meet DOT specs. Strapping any old tank onto a trailer and putting a filter and pump on it doesn't come close to meeting DOT specs. Do you even have a bonding/grounding wire? Any traffic cop worth his salt seeing you hauling hundreds of gallons of gasoline with your homemade setup would be capable of issuing an expensive citation. The fact that you've gotten away with it doesn't make it safe or legal. The last time I looked the legal limit on the capacity of a transfer fuel tank was something like 100 gallons. Anything more got really expensive really fast. Tom had the best advice: if you want more than a hundred gallons, build a stationary tank and have the fuel delivered.
 
I would caution the OP against using any plastic type tank to haul a large quantity of gasoline due to the possibility of static electricity generation as the fuel sloshes around and the difficulty of bonding the tank to ground.
 
Witmo said:
I would caution the OP against using any plastic type tank to haul a large quantity of gasoline due to the possibility of static electricity generation as the fuel sloshes around and the difficulty of bonding the tank to ground.
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I wonder why the most common gas tank is plastic type? Including the tank on my truck and the gas cans you can buy in case you run out of gas?

I think a few people might be over thinking this.
 
Witmo said:
Duh! Maybe because they sell fuel trailers that meet DOT specs. Strapping any old tank onto a trailer and putting a filter and pump on it doesn't come close to meeting DOT specs. Do you even have a bonding/grounding wire? Any traffic cop worth his salt seeing you hauling hundreds of gallons of gasoline with your homemade setup would be capable of issuing an expensive citation. The fact that you've gotten away with it doesn't make it safe or legal. The last time I looked the legal limit on the capacity of a transfer fuel tank was something like 100 gallons. Anything more got really expensive really fast. Tom had the best advice: if you want more than a hundred gallons, build a stationary tank and have the fuel delivered.
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My tank is a 100 gallons, and is perfectly legal for personal use.
 
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Geico266 said:
If a pilot / aircraft owner is buying fuel for their plane locally why are you obessed with interstate transport laws? They NO NOT APPLY for personal use, only if you are selling fuel. :mad2:
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Why do you have an issue with people doing their due diligence and checking with their local laws and regulations first, before spending time and money? You keep saying your rig is 100% legal and that may be true for your state, county, and city, but it's foolish to assume that these laws cover everyone, everywhere. All anybody is saying here is, check before you build.

As others have pointed out, it comes down to risk assessment. That often is a personal thing. Some people are optimists and are willing to take on a lot of risk, others are pessimists and require a lower level of risk. The only way to assess that risk, is to have all the facts.

Is it legal? What is the potential liability and is my proposed design as safe as can be?

If it were me contemplating this project, I would first check with the DMV and find any applicable laws on transport of fuel. Then I would check with the state, county, and city as to the requirements, if any for the storage of fuel. Then I would check with the airport manager about the storage of fuel.

Then I would check with my auto insurance company and see what they say as to transport. Then I would check with my aircraft insurance company as to the storage, because that is the insurance that would most likely cover me in the event of a mishap at the airport.

Then I would talk to folks and go inspect the professionally built fuel trailers and get all the info on the right way to build rather than try to reinvent the wheel.

That's just me though. Others with a higher risk tolerance would forget all that and just go for it.
 
Witmo said:
Duh! Maybe because they sell fuel trailers that meet DOT specs. Strapping any old tank onto a trailer and putting a filter and pump on it doesn't come close to meeting DOT specs. Do you even have a bonding/grounding wire? Any traffic cop worth his salt seeing you hauling hundreds of gallons of gasoline with your homemade setup would be capable of issuing an expensive citation. The fact that you've gotten away with it doesn't make it safe or legal. The last time I looked the legal limit on the capacity of a transfer fuel tank was something like 100 gallons. Anything more got really expensive really fast. Tom had the best advice: if you want more than a hundred gallons, build a stationary tank and have the fuel delivered.
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Seriously, you live in TX and write this? I have seen and towed the hoakiest rigs in Texas including my 50x12 hay trailer I built on a mobilehome chassis.
 
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I have a 64 gallon "Tank for your Business" tank in which I transport de-ionized water (it's my wash rack). It's PLENTY big and would not want to be tankering 300 gallons of fuel in a rig I build myself..... 330? That's HUGE.
 
Henning said:
Seriously, you live in TX and write this? I have seen and towed the hoakiest rigs in Texas including my 50x12 hay trailer I built on a mobilehome chassis.
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I'd say hauling hay and hauling gasoline are a bit different.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
I wonder why the most common gas tank is plastic type? Including the tank on my truck and the gas cans you can buy in case you run out of gas?

I think a few people might be over thinking this.
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Ever wonder why the fuel pump placards always say to remove those plastic gas containers and place them on the ground while you fill them up? There'd be a lot more static electricity generated filling up a 300 gallon container and as the fuel sloshed around on a road trip it would generate even more. Great care is taken bonding those integral fuel tanks into to the chassis of a vehicle so there is no potential difference and the static electricity developed goes to ground through the wheels/tires.
 
Witmo said:
Ever wonder why the fuel pump placards always say to remove those plastic gas containers and place them on the ground while you fill them up? There'd be a lot more static electricity generated filling up a 300 gallon container and as the fuel sloshed around on a road trip it would generate even more. Great care is taken bonding those integral fuel tanks into to the chassis of a vehicle so there is no potential difference and the static electricity developed goes to ground through the wheels/tires.
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Its funny you say that, because in my profession we see fluid transfers (diesel) of 5,000 gallons or more. And I (safety adviser) always require them to use the specific grounding equipment that clips on to their truck to ensure proper grounding. I assume if its good enough for a fuel truck to be grounded through a clamp/wire that my lowly 1-200 gallons would be no different.
 
Geico266 said:
Problem solved.

fuel_tank.JPG



I've hauled 8,000 gallons in this baby.
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Well I know who to call when I need the FlyBaby topped.
 
This is how I do it -- works quite well:
sb0i8.jpg
 
jesse said:
This is how I do it -- works quite well:
sb0i8.jpg
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I've got 6 and a BMW station wagon. That keeps the right tank on my RV7 fed pretty easily (60 gals is 3 fillups (of the right tank). I keep the Left tank at about 10 gal of 100LL, Take-off and land with that, and use it for XC's that the Right tank can't stretch to.
 
Geico266 said:
Many of the regulations you quote simply do not apply if the fuel is used locally for personal use. If you don't want to build a fuel trailer don't, but please don't cite non applicable worthless regulations to scare others away. :nono: We are trying to keep GA viable, and less expensive. Saving $1.30 a gallon is a good place to start.

I've been using my fuel trailer for 15 years, pumped over 8,000 gallons and saved around $10,000.

Oh, and if it were illegal why do they make commercial fuel trailers meeting DOT specs??

http://www.qualityfueltrailers.com/fuel-trailer-types/aviation-fuel-trailers
Click to expand...

DOT regulations are applicable to everyone - not just 'commercial' operators. Example: If you are hauling a tank with more than 1,000 gallon capacity, you are 'supposed' to have at least a Class C CDL with a Tank endorsement. Doesn't matter if it's for hire or private use. Same is true for transportation of certain hazardous materials such as gasoline.

I don't think anyone is telling the OP not to do what he's proposing, we're just saying make sure you cross your t's and dot the i's. One DOT fine could easily erase any savings you may have accumulated from pumping your own fuel.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Its funny you say that, because in my profession we see fluid transfers (diesel) of 5,000 gallons or more. And I (safety adviser) always require them to use the specific grounding equipment that clips on to their truck to ensure proper grounding. I assume if its good enough for a fuel truck to be grounded through a clamp/wire that my lowly 1-200 gallons would be no different.
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Are those diesel tanks made out of plastic? What's safe for diesel transfer may not be safe for gasoline. Some of the transfer equipment (tanks and pumps) available at a farm supply store are safe for diesel but specifically exclude use for gasoline.
 
Witmo said:
I'd say hauling hay and hauling gasoline are a bit different.
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I have seen just as hoaky tender rigs on the roads all through there, although I question the " chemical tote's" rating for gasoline. I'm not coming out in favor of building a hoaky TI, just stating that the likelihood of taking a bust for it in TX is low especially if you have a Farm Tag.
 
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Witmo said:
Ever wonder why the fuel pump placards always say to remove those plastic gas containers and place them on the ground while you fill them up?
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Probably because they leak like a sieve. (What kind of idiot ever approved a fuel container that leaks like that anyway? I have beaten up water bottles that hold water far better than brand new plastic fuel containers)
Either that or the gas stations don't want to get sued to smithereens when some nutjob pulls in and tried to fill 20 of them in the front seat of their lamborghini and comes at them with a lawyer about the smell.

Ever wonder who printed up those placards in the first place? Nobody ever asks that question.

Great care is taken bonding those integral fuel tanks into to the chassis of a vehicle so there is no potential difference and the static electricity developed goes to ground through the wheels/tires.
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Great care? It's a bolt from the tank to the frame or a bonding strap from the tank to the frame. There's nothing special about that...and 20 years later it's still approved even though it's likely a wide open connection.
Tire rubber does not conduct electricity, well, not at any voltages that sloshing fluids will ever create.
 
CJones said:
DOT regulations are applicable to everyone - not just 'commercial' operators.
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Well, except for farmers of course! I can drive a dump truck to the local quarry to get stone for my farm. I can transport farm equipment from one farm to the other w/ a tractor-trailer set up (or on a flatbed behind a dump truck).

All w/o a CDL. At least that's the way it is in Missouri. People with property get to do all kinds of stupid stuff if we want to.

I have no idea if this applies to fuel transportation also...I doubt it does.
 
N801BH said:
HUH ...:dunno::dunno::dunno:..

Grounding through the tires...:rolleyes2::rolleyes2::lol:
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Actually.

There is quit a bit of carbon in them there tars. And, they will conduct away any static charge.

You can also remove the spark plug wires from your engine and replace them with that old style black rubber vacuum hose and run the engine (don't route them anywhere close to the block). (I've only tried it with the coil wire, not all the plug wires.) I wouldn't recomment flying that way.

But to get back to the topic at hand.

http://pei.org/Portals/0/resources/documents/Refueling Fire Incidents.pdf
 
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