Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
Quite possibly the most sensible post, yet. Thanks for the input.
Pet poll
- Thread starter Jay Honeck
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Quite possibly the most sensible post, yet. Thanks for the input.
flygirl34q
Ejection Handle Pulled
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As usual, it seems like just a few inconsiderate owners of unsocialized or partially socialized pets have to cause controversy for the rest of us. 
Yet it seems like from the small poll amongst ourselves at least, more people would actively seek out a pet-friendly hotel or else wouldn't care either way by a majority of more than 3 to 1. So, at the end of the business day, it still seems like a GOOD idea to keep the pet policy as is, despite the hassles and your thoughts of "possibly" driving away business. I know I would appreciate it, and my Nikki too. Vacations always seemed better with her along to enjoy them too. 
Yet it seems like from the small poll amongst ourselves at least, more people would actively seek out a pet-friendly hotel or else wouldn't care either way by a majority of more than 3 to 1. So, at the end of the business day, it still seems like a GOOD idea to keep the pet policy as is, despite the hassles and your thoughts of "possibly" driving away business. I know I would appreciate it, and my Nikki too. Vacations always seemed better with her along to enjoy them too. 
Brad Z
Final Approach
It sounds like your mind is already made up.
Anthony
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Anthony
That was my take also. I believe Jay is looking for justification for the "No Pets" policy, and practically speaking, I agree with him. With all the work he's put into the place to make it nice, a few pet problems could be a real headache, not to mention that some people are allergic to cat and/or dog dander, and that could create issues as well.
With that in mind, however, when I had my dog, I would sometimes take him with me, and would need a pet friendly hotel. You just can't satisfy everyone's needs all the time. The cat's get left at home......ALWAYS.
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AirDC
Pre-takeoff checklist
Kimpton Hotels is the most obvious example of a hotel chain that is pet-friendly, and they are doing extremely well. They don't even charge a pet fee and offer all kinds of free amenities. Maybe look into how they administer their policies, and deal with cleaning. They have expensive furnishings and their rooms are still spotless. Id say average Kimpton hotel rates are $100-$200/nt for a 4 star boutique hotel.
Your sand flea issue is indeed unqiue and a real problem though. I would consider keeping the pet policy in place, but figuring out how you can make it a revenue center instead of a PIA. Make sure your costs are covered with cleaning fees, etc.
I thought this was a good blog/article and supporting data supporting having a pet policy.
http://www.hrabaconsulting.com/blog/2012/01/13/so-you-cant-figure-out-if-your-hotel-should-be-a-pet-friendly-property/
A very informal smattering of data and commentary about the complex debate (for owners) about whether to be a dog friendly property or not. The below data is objective, and clearly indicates the benefits of adding a pet friendly policy to your hotel. In fact, this is likely old news, as our whole industry has started “going to the dogs”. But I compiled this, and thought it might be useful to some people in making their arguments. There is a long list of subjective points that could be discussed for hours, as the topic of dogs is fiercely emotional and personal, both to pro and anti-dog people. There are plenty of studies suggesting that dogs increase happiness, reduce stress, reduce depression, and prolong lifespans in human owners, including lower blood pressure and cholesterol - this, however, is not always enough to make a decision in the business world. Unfortunately, GNP does not mean Gross National Happiness, and business often means bottom line. Below are some ways to understand the impacts of dogs on the guest experience….. [click more for all the info!]
I) Thoughts from Paul Burditch, owner of an excellent Luxury Hospitality PR & Marketing company, Burditch Marketing Communications, in regards to hotels in San Francisco, and a decision *not* to allow dogs at a property:
Travelers who come from all over the world know San Francisco to be a dog paradise – it should be given certain treatment so that it is welcoming, & visibly warm & fuzzy feeling. If dogs are not allowed, we will have a responsibility for a fair explanation of *why* we do not allow dogs, especially in light of the entire industry moving that direction. Most San Francisco hotels allow dogs, and the national parks and Golden Gate National Recreation Area are one of the most popular places for dog walkers & dog fans in the city. Dog owners who stay nearby will see many dogs on the trails, or at Crissy Field, and throughout the park system. This might not only have negative PR implications, but it will be a negative impact on those that see dogs throughout the city, parks, and out our back door. Almost all hotels in San Francisco allow dogs including the top boutique companies Joie de Vivre (ed note: kaput), Kimpton and luxury properties like Ritz Carlton, Four Seasons, St. Regis and others. San Francisco is one of the most dog friendly cities in the country, with the parks being a perfect place for dogs and owners to enjoy. To not allow dogs is going against the bigger trend in dog policies here in San Francisco. A no pet policy is antithetical to the prevailing opinion of most Americans and pet owners in the country today. There are 78 million dogs in the U.S. and 39% of U.S. households own at least one dog. With the abundance of dogs throughout SF and the parks, a decision to disallow pets will have obvious negative PR implications. At this point, it’s almost assumed that they are allowed, and “no” is never part of a good guest experience.
II) FINANCIAL DATA:
At one unnamed property: “We’re at $24,475 in dog fees through October YTD. It’s a one-time $75.00 fee (most fees are much less, but balanced against the full cost of dog sitter or kennel if guest were to leave them at home), regardless of length of stay. The audit report only gives posting totals, so no way to track Room Night production. I’d make an educated guess of 550 – 600 total Room Nights YTD. The total doesn’t breakdown evenly when divided by $75 because we had a few in there we only charged $50 because their res was already OTB when we changed the fee and a few we charged $100 because they had more than 2 dogs. It is our opinion that these guests would have stayed elsewhere with their pets, and we would have lost the room nights. This does not account for incremental revenues. [ed note: this is from a peer who doesn't know I am posting this. It's anonymous, but if ANYONE has ANY concern at all re: financial disclosure, I will take this down].
Incrememental revenues = selling branded or logo’d hotel merchandise to dog owners – whether homemade local treats or a rubber ball with your brand stamped on it.
III) Articles, info, data:
a) Tripadvisor Pet Travel report.
“In a TripAdvisor survey of more than 1,100 pet owners in the United States, nearly half said they plan to travel with their animal within the next 12 months.”
b) Pet Friendly Travel – via Bella Dog magazine, also talks about airline fee frustrations, and more:
The majority of pet owners surveyed (61 percent) said they travel more than 50 mi. (80 km.) with their pets at least once a year, with 38 percent of those pet owners stating that they travel as often as once a month with their pets. Pet friendly travel still is almost exclusively for dogs, with over half of the pet owners (61 percent) saying that they choose to travel with their dogs (33 percent of pet owners travel with their cats). (Source: Bella Dog magazine)
c) According to the U.S. Travel Association: “Petsmake great travel companions. Over 49 percent of U.S. adult leisure travelers consider their pet to be part of the family and 18 percent of U.S. adult leisure travelers usually take their pets with them when they travel. (Source: travelhorizonsTM, July 2009”)
d) Forbes: pet friendly hotels were due to market forces demanding it -
Why the change of heart? Travelers with pets are a huge market, and one that is untapped at the luxury level. According to the Washington, D.C.-based Travel Industry Association of America, there are 62 million dog owners in the U.S., and 29 million of those hit the road with their dogs in tow. The latest American Express Leisure Travel survey, released in October 2003, found that 13% of its respondents described an ideal vacation as one that is “pet-friendly.”
e) Hotels Dogs Travel (via HotelMarketing.com) -
The nation’s pet boarding industry has figured out it doesn’t take much persuasion to get pet owners, often guilty about dropping their dog or cat off at a kennel while they head off on vacation, to pay extra for pampering: In the last five years, spending on pet services including boarding and grooming has more than doubled to $2.5 billion, according to the American Pet Products Manufacturers Association in Greenwich, Conn.
f) Hotels renting pooches to guests without dogs via Time.com
These days, the coziest hotel trend has nothing to do with plush mattresses or comfy slippers. It’s about catering to guests who had to leave their furry, feathered or finned family members at home. This spring the Fairmont in Sonoma, Calif., added a dog to its staff, a chocolate Labrador named Zeus who is tasked with such things as welcoming guests in the lobby and going on hikes with them — or what is referred to, in corporate jargon, as “interactive guest appreciation.” (I have seen this in many JDV hotels as well. This trend started after studies showed that petting a dog or having a pet around reduces stress and increases health)
g) Fairmont’s doggy ambassador delights guests (same as above, but more info)
h) “Top Dog Hotels” via USA Today (same Tripadvisor rankings from above, but a little more about the hotels and amenities)
i) Recent press release for Bernardus in Carmel Valley via SF Gate PRWire (the fact that someone does a press release is typically because the new amenity has relative strength or equity to the brand and bottom line)
j) Kimpton’s Argonaut with their “Howl-O-Ween” dog costume contest (something that drives room nights and community around Kimpton property)
k) 15% of people are allergic to dogs (not including the 30% of asthma sufferers who are allergic), while 40% of people own dogs. With stringent cleaning methods (or just normal ones), i have yet to hear of an allergic person with a problem inside a room, let alone ever knowing whether they had been place in a room previously occupied by a dog. For those truly allergic, they usually mention it, and it’s never an issue to accommodate all those concerned. What’s more, hotels have been dealing with chemical sensitivity and allergies to things like down, etc, for years. One more thing won’t be a major impact or operational issue.
l) Dogs that travel with people are typically incredibly well behaved, and often better and more quiet than children. We also know weight limits are not necessary, because a) most large breed owners don’t travel with their pets, and b) a chihuaha can do as much, if not more, damage as a larger breed. But if that rare bark is a concern to owners, remember that acoustics won’t be an issue – a crying baby is louder than a dog in most acoustic tests: http://www.controlnoise.com/storage/dBSoundproofingChart.pdf
IV) Conclusion
We have seen a lot more conversation on an internal industry level and an external marketing level because it has become so much more popular in recent years. Opening without a pet-friendly policy, only to allow it later, would create PR issues because it is difficult to recapture initial interest after telling people that you are not dog friendly.
Observing and mulling all the above data and information, it seems pretty obvious what the right choice is for your guests, and your hotel. Any complications, of which there are few and it’s very rare, is what needs to be discussed further. I have a couple dog policies I can share, if you need them…. but overall, we feel strongly that a pet friendly policy should be approved for any hotel looking to drive revenues and capture new markets.
Your sand flea issue is indeed unqiue and a real problem though. I would consider keeping the pet policy in place, but figuring out how you can make it a revenue center instead of a PIA. Make sure your costs are covered with cleaning fees, etc.
I thought this was a good blog/article and supporting data supporting having a pet policy.
http://www.hrabaconsulting.com/blog/2012/01/13/so-you-cant-figure-out-if-your-hotel-should-be-a-pet-friendly-property/
A very informal smattering of data and commentary about the complex debate (for owners) about whether to be a dog friendly property or not. The below data is objective, and clearly indicates the benefits of adding a pet friendly policy to your hotel. In fact, this is likely old news, as our whole industry has started “going to the dogs”. But I compiled this, and thought it might be useful to some people in making their arguments. There is a long list of subjective points that could be discussed for hours, as the topic of dogs is fiercely emotional and personal, both to pro and anti-dog people. There are plenty of studies suggesting that dogs increase happiness, reduce stress, reduce depression, and prolong lifespans in human owners, including lower blood pressure and cholesterol - this, however, is not always enough to make a decision in the business world. Unfortunately, GNP does not mean Gross National Happiness, and business often means bottom line. Below are some ways to understand the impacts of dogs on the guest experience….. [click more for all the info!]
I) Thoughts from Paul Burditch, owner of an excellent Luxury Hospitality PR & Marketing company, Burditch Marketing Communications, in regards to hotels in San Francisco, and a decision *not* to allow dogs at a property:
Travelers who come from all over the world know San Francisco to be a dog paradise – it should be given certain treatment so that it is welcoming, & visibly warm & fuzzy feeling. If dogs are not allowed, we will have a responsibility for a fair explanation of *why* we do not allow dogs, especially in light of the entire industry moving that direction. Most San Francisco hotels allow dogs, and the national parks and Golden Gate National Recreation Area are one of the most popular places for dog walkers & dog fans in the city. Dog owners who stay nearby will see many dogs on the trails, or at Crissy Field, and throughout the park system. This might not only have negative PR implications, but it will be a negative impact on those that see dogs throughout the city, parks, and out our back door. Almost all hotels in San Francisco allow dogs including the top boutique companies Joie de Vivre (ed note: kaput), Kimpton and luxury properties like Ritz Carlton, Four Seasons, St. Regis and others. San Francisco is one of the most dog friendly cities in the country, with the parks being a perfect place for dogs and owners to enjoy. To not allow dogs is going against the bigger trend in dog policies here in San Francisco. A no pet policy is antithetical to the prevailing opinion of most Americans and pet owners in the country today. There are 78 million dogs in the U.S. and 39% of U.S. households own at least one dog. With the abundance of dogs throughout SF and the parks, a decision to disallow pets will have obvious negative PR implications. At this point, it’s almost assumed that they are allowed, and “no” is never part of a good guest experience.
II) FINANCIAL DATA:
At one unnamed property: “We’re at $24,475 in dog fees through October YTD. It’s a one-time $75.00 fee (most fees are much less, but balanced against the full cost of dog sitter or kennel if guest were to leave them at home), regardless of length of stay. The audit report only gives posting totals, so no way to track Room Night production. I’d make an educated guess of 550 – 600 total Room Nights YTD. The total doesn’t breakdown evenly when divided by $75 because we had a few in there we only charged $50 because their res was already OTB when we changed the fee and a few we charged $100 because they had more than 2 dogs. It is our opinion that these guests would have stayed elsewhere with their pets, and we would have lost the room nights. This does not account for incremental revenues. [ed note: this is from a peer who doesn't know I am posting this. It's anonymous, but if ANYONE has ANY concern at all re: financial disclosure, I will take this down].
Incrememental revenues = selling branded or logo’d hotel merchandise to dog owners – whether homemade local treats or a rubber ball with your brand stamped on it.
III) Articles, info, data:
a) Tripadvisor Pet Travel report.
“In a TripAdvisor survey of more than 1,100 pet owners in the United States, nearly half said they plan to travel with their animal within the next 12 months.”
b) Pet Friendly Travel – via Bella Dog magazine, also talks about airline fee frustrations, and more:
The majority of pet owners surveyed (61 percent) said they travel more than 50 mi. (80 km.) with their pets at least once a year, with 38 percent of those pet owners stating that they travel as often as once a month with their pets. Pet friendly travel still is almost exclusively for dogs, with over half of the pet owners (61 percent) saying that they choose to travel with their dogs (33 percent of pet owners travel with their cats). (Source: Bella Dog magazine)
c) According to the U.S. Travel Association: “Petsmake great travel companions. Over 49 percent of U.S. adult leisure travelers consider their pet to be part of the family and 18 percent of U.S. adult leisure travelers usually take their pets with them when they travel. (Source: travelhorizonsTM, July 2009”)
d) Forbes: pet friendly hotels were due to market forces demanding it -
Why the change of heart? Travelers with pets are a huge market, and one that is untapped at the luxury level. According to the Washington, D.C.-based Travel Industry Association of America, there are 62 million dog owners in the U.S., and 29 million of those hit the road with their dogs in tow. The latest American Express Leisure Travel survey, released in October 2003, found that 13% of its respondents described an ideal vacation as one that is “pet-friendly.”
e) Hotels Dogs Travel (via HotelMarketing.com) -
The nation’s pet boarding industry has figured out it doesn’t take much persuasion to get pet owners, often guilty about dropping their dog or cat off at a kennel while they head off on vacation, to pay extra for pampering: In the last five years, spending on pet services including boarding and grooming has more than doubled to $2.5 billion, according to the American Pet Products Manufacturers Association in Greenwich, Conn.
f) Hotels renting pooches to guests without dogs via Time.com
These days, the coziest hotel trend has nothing to do with plush mattresses or comfy slippers. It’s about catering to guests who had to leave their furry, feathered or finned family members at home. This spring the Fairmont in Sonoma, Calif., added a dog to its staff, a chocolate Labrador named Zeus who is tasked with such things as welcoming guests in the lobby and going on hikes with them — or what is referred to, in corporate jargon, as “interactive guest appreciation.” (I have seen this in many JDV hotels as well. This trend started after studies showed that petting a dog or having a pet around reduces stress and increases health)
g) Fairmont’s doggy ambassador delights guests (same as above, but more info)
h) “Top Dog Hotels” via USA Today (same Tripadvisor rankings from above, but a little more about the hotels and amenities)
i) Recent press release for Bernardus in Carmel Valley via SF Gate PRWire (the fact that someone does a press release is typically because the new amenity has relative strength or equity to the brand and bottom line)
j) Kimpton’s Argonaut with their “Howl-O-Ween” dog costume contest (something that drives room nights and community around Kimpton property)
k) 15% of people are allergic to dogs (not including the 30% of asthma sufferers who are allergic), while 40% of people own dogs. With stringent cleaning methods (or just normal ones), i have yet to hear of an allergic person with a problem inside a room, let alone ever knowing whether they had been place in a room previously occupied by a dog. For those truly allergic, they usually mention it, and it’s never an issue to accommodate all those concerned. What’s more, hotels have been dealing with chemical sensitivity and allergies to things like down, etc, for years. One more thing won’t be a major impact or operational issue.
l) Dogs that travel with people are typically incredibly well behaved, and often better and more quiet than children. We also know weight limits are not necessary, because a) most large breed owners don’t travel with their pets, and b) a chihuaha can do as much, if not more, damage as a larger breed. But if that rare bark is a concern to owners, remember that acoustics won’t be an issue – a crying baby is louder than a dog in most acoustic tests: http://www.controlnoise.com/storage/dBSoundproofingChart.pdf
IV) Conclusion
We have seen a lot more conversation on an internal industry level and an external marketing level because it has become so much more popular in recent years. Opening without a pet-friendly policy, only to allow it later, would create PR issues because it is difficult to recapture initial interest after telling people that you are not dog friendly.
Observing and mulling all the above data and information, it seems pretty obvious what the right choice is for your guests, and your hotel. Any complications, of which there are few and it’s very rare, is what needs to be discussed further. I have a couple dog policies I can share, if you need them…. but overall, we feel strongly that a pet friendly policy should be approved for any hotel looking to drive revenues and capture new markets.
Jack Spectre
Line Up and Wait
Keep in mind, though, that Jay has one hotel, and Kimpton's has 50 hotels. Kimpton's has the resources to apply universal corporate policy in regards to cleaning equipment, discounts on bulk cleaning supplies, marketing for dog owners, etc. So, making a one-hotel chain a "pet paradise" would be exponentially more difficult than a hotel chain with many more resources in the form of operating budget and personnel.
Ultimately it's a numbers game. Does it make financial sense to allow dogs? Is the charge for pets enough to cover short term cleaning expenses as well as long term wear-and-tear?
Ultimately it's a numbers game. Does it make financial sense to allow dogs? Is the charge for pets enough to cover short term cleaning expenses as well as long term wear-and-tear?
woodstock
Final Approach
I would vote for no pets but do some good research on local places to board and maybe even consider teaming up with them. Can you get your customers a discount if you send enough business there?
Might even be worth it to give customers with pets a small discount if they board their pet locally - or if not a discount, delivery service? Although that comes with its own headaches and possibly liability issues too.
Getting a discount from both places could mean the incremental cost is negligible for pet owner and even though you're giving a discount it's a lot cheaper than headaches. I'd have a clear policy about breaking the pet policy though - as in, a couple hundred bucks posted loud and clear.
Might even be worth it to give customers with pets a small discount if they board their pet locally - or if not a discount, delivery service? Although that comes with its own headaches and possibly liability issues too.
Getting a discount from both places could mean the incremental cost is negligible for pet owner and even though you're giving a discount it's a lot cheaper than headaches. I'd have a clear policy about breaking the pet policy though - as in, a couple hundred bucks posted loud and clear.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
My mind is made up...to stay the course.
Right now, some of our older rooms (that we have NOT gutted yet) are "pet-friendly". This policy will remain, without changes, and we will live with the hassles and consequences.
As we continue to remodel each new room, however, they will become "No Pets Allowed", until the entire property is pet-free. We've remodeled over half of the hotel (the worst half, which *was* entirely pets-allowed when we bought the place), so finishing the rest of the rooms will take another two off-seasons, during which time we will gradually transition away from pets.
I can put up with pets in our older rooms, but there is no way I'm going to put my blood, sweat, and tears (not to mention $$$) into making these the finest rooms on the island, only to have a cat pee in them. I just can't risk the damage, nor the damage to our reputation from on-line reviewers who would crucify us over such a problem.
This is really a tough call. We love our dog like she's family. Right now she's making it damned near impossible to type this, by laying her head on my keyboard. (I think she knows I'm thinking about her.) I understand the desire to bring pets along on vacation, especially for the solo travelers amongst us, so I hate to cut off that part of the business -- but the direction we're taking this place is IMHO incompatible with pets.
When we bought the old Harbor Inn, it was a traditional island motel. Small rooms, few amenities, cheap prices -- just a place to sleep. Two years, several hundred thousand dollars, and thousands of hours of work later, we now boast the finest rooms on the island, with the most amenities of any hotel, at any price.
Our prices have not kept pace with this change, simply because they can't double overnight -- the public has to accept and be made aware of the upgrades gradually. This works out just fine, since the changes themselves have been made gradually -- mostly because I'm too damned slow at drywall.
As a result, we are now the best hotel deal, ever -- but prices WILL double, over time. They have to, or we will never be able to recoup our investment. This will bring a caliber of guest who expects -- and deserves -- more. The risk of subjecting someone like that (we call them "the Austin crowd", which we are seeing more and more) to a night next to a barking dog is too great to risk.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
Good stuff, mostly, but I thought this was particularly funny:
l) Dogs that travel with people are typically incredibly well behaved, and often better and more quiet than children. We also know weight limits are not necessary, because a) most large breed owners don’t travel with their pets, and b) a chihuaha can do as much, if not more, damage as a larger breed. But if that rare bark is a concern to owners, remember that acoustics won’t be an issue – a crying baby is louder than a dog in most acoustic tests: http://www.controlnoise.com/storage/dBSoundproofingChart.pdf
That's like saying that, given a choice between freezing to death or burning to death, you would choose freezing.
In ten years in this business, I have never received a noise complaint about a crying baby -- mostly IMHO because people with babies don't tend to travel much.
Which is not to say I haven't had complaints about children and noise. When we owned a multi-story property, we always tried to put families on the first floor, because we knew what would happen if we put them ABOVE anyone.
l) Dogs that travel with people are typically incredibly well behaved, and often better and more quiet than children. We also know weight limits are not necessary, because a) most large breed owners don’t travel with their pets, and b) a chihuaha can do as much, if not more, damage as a larger breed. But if that rare bark is a concern to owners, remember that acoustics won’t be an issue – a crying baby is louder than a dog in most acoustic tests: http://www.controlnoise.com/storage/dBSoundproofingChart.pdf
That's like saying that, given a choice between freezing to death or burning to death, you would choose freezing.
In ten years in this business, I have never received a noise complaint about a crying baby -- mostly IMHO because people with babies don't tend to travel much.
Which is not to say I haven't had complaints about children and noise. When we owned a multi-story property, we always tried to put families on the first floor, because we knew what would happen if we put them ABOVE anyone.
When making my annual pilgrimage from Ontario to Florida I plan all overnite stops at pet friendly hotels. I have two West Highland White terriers. which are accepted at all La Quinta hotels so they get my business.
I usually stay in Fla for 6 to 8 weeks, again only in pet friendly rentals.
I usually stay in Fla for 6 to 8 weeks, again only in pet friendly rentals.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
Now you've touched on ANOTHER aspect of our business that hinges on "pet-friendliness" -- Winter Texans.
These are the folks from "Up North" who come to the island for the winter. We rent them rooms at a very reasonable monthly rate, and they often bring their pets.
I suspect we will always have to keep our kitchenettes "pet-friendly", if for no other reason than to accommodate their needs. Ugh, hadn't thought of them, now that we're in "summer mode" here.
Argh. I'm really starting to hate three things: Smokers, indoor plumbing, and pets. My life would be SO much easier without them.
woodstock
Final Approach
Anyone who brings a cat on vacation is crazy. Most cats don't relish traveling.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Hadn't replied yet, but we love our pets but don't bring them on vacations. We have a great "ranch style" boarding place or dad will usually watch the dog for a few days.
Sand fleas are a huge PITA... heck, humans drag 'em around too, not just pets, but they do love dogs... I remember those things clear back to my childhood on Virginia Beach. Throw in some chiggers, and the insect-induced annoyance factor would be complete. LOL!
And while I do smoke (and yeah, I know I should quit...), I don't smoke in hotel rooms. I go outside, just like at home.
Sand fleas are a huge PITA... heck, humans drag 'em around too, not just pets, but they do love dogs... I remember those things clear back to my childhood on Virginia Beach. Throw in some chiggers, and the insect-induced annoyance factor would be complete. LOL!
And while I do smoke (and yeah, I know I should quit...), I don't smoke in hotel rooms. I go outside, just like at home.
pilot_dude
En-Route
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When traveling with the dogs, we obviously search out properties that are pet friendly. When the dogs aren't with us, it's a non-starter either way.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
Jay, for a savvy businessperson, you sure do say some dumb things. Like "I want to allow dogs, because I love dogs". You allow or disallow pets because you love money.
Will you make more money allowing or disallowing? It is a complex question. By disallowing, you reduce room damage and noise complaints. You can also turn over rooms faster.
By allowing, you attract pet owners, who complies a frighteningly large percentage of the population.
I suspect that a smart computer guru like yourself could design an algorithm to determine how much you gain or loose per period with the current policy. Admittedly, you can't determine intangibles, like how many gave you bad reviews because of noisy dogs, or how many pet owners got turned away because there wasn't the appropriate room. But you can do a good enough analysis to determine if it makes you money.
Will you make more money allowing or disallowing? It is a complex question. By disallowing, you reduce room damage and noise complaints. You can also turn over rooms faster.
By allowing, you attract pet owners, who complies a frighteningly large percentage of the population.
I suspect that a smart computer guru like yourself could design an algorithm to determine how much you gain or loose per period with the current policy. Admittedly, you can't determine intangibles, like how many gave you bad reviews because of noisy dogs, or how many pet owners got turned away because there wasn't the appropriate room. But you can do a good enough analysis to determine if it makes you money.
alaskaflyer
Final Approach
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And I'd bet the corporate chains have done this. Would I be wrong in saying most of them don't allow pets? (I've no idea.) If so there's your answer.
Brad Z
Final Approach
Many of the corporate chains are pet friendly on a property-by-property basis. Others leave it up to their franchisees. Vacation areas tend to have more pet friendly options than areas that are heavily populated by business travelers.
OK, Jay...banning smoking I endorse, banning pets I'm indifferent to, but if you get rid of the indoor plumbing I ain't ever staying at your place.
We only have cats (and a turtle) so I have never considered traveling with them. Fortunately, both are relatively self sufficient, so all we ever did on trips is pay a neighbor kid a few bucks to check the food and water and litter box while we were gone.
As a non-pet guest, as long as the room doesn't smell bad (and I've certainly had more problems with smoking than pets in decades of traveling) and is clean, I don't care. Of course, I don't have pet allergies so others might have differing opinions.
Of course these days, there are a lot of accommodations you're going to have to make under the ADA for service animals and you're really blocked from making any inquiries into the complete nonsense excuses some people invent to call their pets service animals.
We only have cats (and a turtle) so I have never considered traveling with them. Fortunately, both are relatively self sufficient, so all we ever did on trips is pay a neighbor kid a few bucks to check the food and water and litter box while we were gone.
As a non-pet guest, as long as the room doesn't smell bad (and I've certainly had more problems with smoking than pets in decades of traveling) and is clean, I don't care. Of course, I don't have pet allergies so others might have differing opinions.
Of course these days, there are a lot of accommodations you're going to have to make under the ADA for service animals and you're really blocked from making any inquiries into the complete nonsense excuses some people invent to call their pets service animals.
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I'd consider making a couple of pet friendly rooms. When I'd go to Laughlin I'd always stay at Don's place because the times I do show up with my GF and her dog, Sadie is as welcome as I or she. That means I come back to the same place with my degenerate gambling buddies.
I don't know why America makes pets so difficult.
I don't know why America makes pets so difficult.
Oh, BTW, I have found that sulphur dust seems to run off fleas and ticks. I used to spread it around the house on the ranch and it helped a lot.
The problem here is that this is more complex than just his business, this is his life as well so there are more considerations than just money, he has to consider joy as well. Money is just a tool to buy joy in life is all.
No, that is the great fallacy that has our country in the crap condition it's in, Money is NOT what it's all about. Happiness is what it's all about. If the happiness you get from the animals being around is greater than the joy you get from the equivalent $$$ that it costs to have them around, then you have a good value. If you save that money that the animals took and look at that money, that's nor a good value because you trade more for less.
As for financial sense that is difficult to judge, but I guess would show up pretty quickly since he seems to stay booked up. If he loses bookings due to change in policy, well, it becomes obvious quickly. If there is no change change in bookings it just comes down to which he values more, happiness (his and his guests) of having the animals around or money.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
No, it's a business, and a dog-eat-dog one from the sounds of it (if you'll forgive the pun). One is in business to make money. If the business doesn't make money, it brings no happiness either.
The problem with people traveling with dogs is most people are so freaking stupid that they'll allow their animal to bark all day and howl all night, chew the woodwork, destroy the furniture, crap on the rug and then wonder why the hotel might charge them more. I love dogs, but I despise dog owners without the good sense Odin gave a microwave oven.
They also make up a significant enough market sector that most the chains are going there if they haven't been so all along, so there are those issues as well.
When 80% of the population is stupid, marketing to the stupid makes the greatest business sense, no? You either market to the 80% or the 1%, that's where the money is; or you market for the 19%, make a living, have some happiness and live with the good karma providing hospitality to the rest of us trying to get through the madness of our society.
It's not all about $$$, nature did not create money, money does not create life. Our society is the only reason there is a connection.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
Well put!
If I was working for money, I would have stayed in the distribution business that earned me the $$$ to buy hotels in the first place. I moved to this island because it's paradise -- and I bought the hotel to build a place for pilots to hang out.
If it makes gobs of money, I will be thrilled. If it only makes me enough to fund my flying, I will be happy, too. So long as it isn't actively losing money, I win!
As for the pet question, the commanding, over-riding principle here is this: Is it worth the PIA to keep accepting pets, or not? I've decided that it is, in the rooms I know I will be gutting next off-season, anyway. It isn't, in the rooms I have already renovated.
For now, we remain pet friendly. Over time, as we continue to upgrade the facility, pets will not be welcome at our hotel except in the kitchenette rooms. (The Red Baron Room, and the Airshow Room, for anyone that's interested.) This transition will take about two more years.
Well, look at where the corporate chain stance is going after the success of boutique market providers.
One of the features of GA happens to be that you can travel easily with your pet, I found that quite handy over the years.
Brad Z
Final Approach
Exactly...if you cater to a pilot population, your more likely catering to a population who on average is wealthier, older, and is more likely to travel wih their pooch. Ever notice how many FBOs have jars of dog bones?
I realize that pilots make up a small portion of your occupancy, but if you are attempting to cater to them, allowing pets is a natural extension.
Steve Foley
Pattern Altitude
That may be true, but you don't have to maximize income to bring happiness, you only need sufficient income.
So if banning dogs only moves income between sufficient and maximum, and also decreases happiness, it's not worth it.
So, in effect, it is a numbers game, but there are more variables involved than making money vs. not making money.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
Well, here is a perfect, real-world example that happened just today.
I am painting decks and doors, so I am "out and about" on the property more than normal. Today was a gorgeous day on the island, and, as such, we were busy.
Early in the day, we had a couple check in with a dog. Nice dog, smallish, no obvious problems. Good people, they signed the pet agreement, paid the pet fee, and off we went.
Well, I'm painting decks, and watch them come and go. The first time, they took the dog. The second time, they did not.
Within minutes after their departure, I can hear the whining. My dog does the same thing, in the same frequency range, so I am attuned to it.
Then, I hear the scratching on the door. Okay, now I know (a) the dog is unattended, and (b) the dog is not crated.
So, I call Mary (from my perch on the ladder) and have her call the owners, and tell them to get back here, pronto, to attend to their whiny dog. Within 15 minutes they are back, grumbling.
Why did I do it? Wasn't it the middle of the day, when who really cares if a dog is whining?
Here's why:
1. We currently have a big-wheel Austin travel reporter staying with us. If she came back from lunch for a nap, and couldn't sleep because of a whining dog, what sort of a review might we receive?
2. Here is the scenario I always use when assessing the situation: If we had the mother of the bride here, right now, assessing our property for her daughter's wedding -- what would she say?
With a whining, scratching dog, I think we all know the answer: Why risk this place?
So, I busted the owners balls, and dragged them back from wherever they were, sans dog. Our new policy is (thanks to this thread) "No unattended animals in the hotel" -- and that's what we will enforce.
I am painting decks and doors, so I am "out and about" on the property more than normal. Today was a gorgeous day on the island, and, as such, we were busy.
Early in the day, we had a couple check in with a dog. Nice dog, smallish, no obvious problems. Good people, they signed the pet agreement, paid the pet fee, and off we went.
Well, I'm painting decks, and watch them come and go. The first time, they took the dog. The second time, they did not.
Within minutes after their departure, I can hear the whining. My dog does the same thing, in the same frequency range, so I am attuned to it.
Then, I hear the scratching on the door. Okay, now I know (a) the dog is unattended, and (b) the dog is not crated.
So, I call Mary (from my perch on the ladder) and have her call the owners, and tell them to get back here, pronto, to attend to their whiny dog. Within 15 minutes they are back, grumbling.
Why did I do it? Wasn't it the middle of the day, when who really cares if a dog is whining?
Here's why:
1. We currently have a big-wheel Austin travel reporter staying with us. If she came back from lunch for a nap, and couldn't sleep because of a whining dog, what sort of a review might we receive?
2. Here is the scenario I always use when assessing the situation: If we had the mother of the bride here, right now, assessing our property for her daughter's wedding -- what would she say?
With a whining, scratching dog, I think we all know the answer: Why risk this place?
So, I busted the owners balls, and dragged them back from wherever they were, sans dog. Our new policy is (thanks to this thread) "No unattended animals in the hotel" -- and that's what we will enforce.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Aww, geeze. Now Karen will have to keep an eye on me when we finally make it down there for a visit.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
Aww, geeze. Now Karen will have to keep an eye on me when we finally make it down there for a visit.
Haw! You would be surprised how many times I hear that at check-in, when I ask "Any pets?"
If it's two guys, usually they will point at each other. If it's a married couple, the wife will usually point at the guy...
If you ask my housekeepers, they will tell you that some guys are WORSE than dogs...
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
And here is another aspect of being pet friendly that scares the crap out of me:
http://news.yahoo.com/leading-insurer-pays-109m-dog-bite-claims-214445007.html
http://news.yahoo.com/leading-insurer-pays-109m-dog-bite-claims-214445007.html
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
Jay, I think you may just need to apply more alcohol (for medicinal purposes, of course.)
gkainz
Final Approach
"Unattended animals will be promptly returned to their owners.
Unattended children will be fed jolt cola and cotton candy and then returned to their parents."
Unattended children will be fed jolt cola and cotton candy and then returned to their parents."
Apache123
Line Up and Wait
My dogs are a part of my family. We actively go out of our way to find pet friendly hotels and restaurants (typically a patio-area where they're allowed) whenever possible. Toronto is amazing for this -- non-service dogs are allowed on public transport as well so long as "well behaved."
At the same time, my dogs are quiet, patient, and actually listen to me when I say "sit here and don't bother anyone." In my previous company my dog (only had the one back then) was present and in a chair during all board meetings... yes I'm "eccentric."**
I've seen plenty of pets which shouldn't have been in public even on a leash. It's amazing what "bad parenting" can do.
As far as your hotel, my two cents is: add an up-front fee, and make a public statement (and signed agreement requirement) of a check-out inspection with absurdly large cleaning fees posted for all/any animal-mess-discrepancies such that the hotel staff are the sole deciders of whether pet odor/mess is detectable. This will (I'd think) scare away those who would let your pet trash the place versus those who make a legitimate effort to keep things clean for everyone.
**Note: The only difference between eccentric and completely bat**** insane is how successful others perceive you to be.
At the same time, my dogs are quiet, patient, and actually listen to me when I say "sit here and don't bother anyone." In my previous company my dog (only had the one back then) was present and in a chair during all board meetings... yes I'm "eccentric."**
I've seen plenty of pets which shouldn't have been in public even on a leash. It's amazing what "bad parenting" can do.
As far as your hotel, my two cents is: add an up-front fee, and make a public statement (and signed agreement requirement) of a check-out inspection with absurdly large cleaning fees posted for all/any animal-mess-discrepancies such that the hotel staff are the sole deciders of whether pet odor/mess is detectable. This will (I'd think) scare away those who would let your pet trash the place versus those who make a legitimate effort to keep things clean for everyone.
**Note: The only difference between eccentric and completely bat**** insane is how successful others perceive you to be.
Jack Spectre
Line Up and Wait
Sorry Henning, I disagree.
Business is what allows a profit (hopefully). If you don't address the need to pay your mortgage and your grocery bill, there will be no joy.
If having pets in the hotel means he's not making a profit, what good is the joy of having somebody else's pets around? And it sounds like a dubious joy at that, dealing with the sand fleas at the accelerated wear and tear.
Brad Z
Final Approach
This thread has taught me that the hotel business sucks