When To Swap CFI's?

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bigblockz8

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Gore
I am having a couple issues with CFI's. I have had 7, not counting intro flights in almost 13 hours. Here is a list of what happened:

CFI#
1. Got a 737 F/O job

2. Got a CRJ seat

3.Too unprofessional. He told me not to preflight and that we only need to call out base and final. He also liked to start maneuvers without clearing turns. One lesson and left.

4. Got a job with Columbia Helicopters

5. Too many students, booked 2 months in advance. I flew with him by calling daily at 8 am for any cancellations.

6. He got a job at USAir

7. Current CFI

My current CFI is the one that is bothering me. He is frequently late and unprepared. His instruction is good (#6 was the best CFI) but it's the attitude that upsets me. He has a qausi-professional attitude. He is by-the-book in some respects but in others he is as laid back as a cop on the take.

I haven't flown for three weeks now...It is not by choice. I had 4 lessons scheduled with him, all four were cancelled. Two were weather related but the last two have been personal. I understand that it was New Year's Eve but if I am 1/3 students who are all back-to-back, can't you just fly until 2pm? Who parties at 8am? The fourth lesson was cancelled 12hrs ahead due to him being "sick."

The lesson was for today at 8am. I had a friend who went to the airport around 11 to move their plane and he said that he saw him! I completely get that he has a personal life but I do too! I can only fly on weekends or holidays, he knows this. He is normally off on Wednesdays and Sundays/Mondays. I completely get that things pop up but to be spotted at the airport when you claim that you were sick?!?!?!?

This is what upsets me:
1. For 3/3 lessons, he was 15 or more minutes late.
2. Two lessons have been cancelled for personal reason, on the latest cancellation he was spotted at the airport 3hrs after my lesson time.
3. Unprofessional practices.

I hate switching CFI's, it is very inefficient and costs more $. I don't have money to spend on switching every 2-3 lessons. The good ones keep getting picked up by airlines. This CFI is trying for his ATP and is actively seeking employment. I expect him to be around until summer.


********UPDATE*********

So I discussed these issues with the head CFI and found out some new info. My source was correct, my CFI was spotted at the airport while he was "sick." My CFI apparently got a bad infection and had some light dizziness and was unfit for flying so he instead did ground work for a bit.

I also came to the ( rather obvious) conclusion that it's cheaper for him to be late. I preflight and file a flightplan for free and only have to wait for a body in the right seat. As for one of the cancellations, I'll let the personal day slide. If I were in my mid-20's and had friends and wanted to go party all day on New Year's Eve, I could see not wanting to fly/not being at the top of my teaching game.

I am giving it one more try. This CFI has helped me a lot in just a couple of lessons and I don't feel like trying on CFI #8 or more.

***************************************************


To switch, or not to switch: that is the question:
Upset, flight 3/act 1
 
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Tell him that if he keeps cancelling you will find someone more reliable. That'll straighten him up.
 
Strongly suggest you have a heart-to-heart with your instructor. If you don't get a response you like, go talk to the chief instructor. If you don't get an answer you like there, come back and ask for some flight school recommendations. Also try the DCPilots mailing list http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/dcpilots/
 
This might not help much, but I noted during my training so far (I'm at 24 hours) that I was able to schedule time off of work during good weather situations and cancel my time off at the last minute if the weather was not conducive to training. I understand that many, many people do not have this sort of job, nor can they find a flight instructor who is available during working hours, but it helped me keep somewhat current through some of the worst flying weather we've ever had here in Ohio.

The other thing I will mention is that once you get signed off to do takeoffs and landings and some training area flying unsupervised, your instructor won't matter QUITE as much. I was signed off at about 20 hours for a couple of local airports. I think I would have been signed off sooner had I not had to take some mandatory breaks due to the weather I mentioned above.
 
ChrisK said:
This might not help much, but I noted during my training so far (I'm at 24 hours) that I was able to schedule time off of work during good weather situations and cancel my time off at the last minute if the weather was not conducive to training. I understand that many, many people do not have this sort of job, nor can they find a flight instructor who is available during working hours, but it helped me keep somewhat current through some of the worst flying weather we've ever had here in Ohio.

The other thing I will mention is that once you get signed off to do takeoffs and landings and some training area flying unsupervised, your instructor won't matter QUITE as much. I was signed off at about 20 hours for a couple of local airports. I think I would have been signed off sooner had I not had to take some mandatory breaks due to the weather I mentioned above.
Click to expand...

Luckily work isn't an issue...I don't have a job lol. The issue is getting to the airport, my schedule is based on when my mom can drive me there. I can't drive alone for another two months. My issues are money and when a CFI is open. I want to get to the solo phase in order to finally get the CFI less involved but until I am competent, I am reliant upon him.

I will talk to him about it, it does get upsetting when he cancels and it turns out to be a perfect day for flying, especially in the WINTER. His tardiness has effected one flight directly and ultimately led to calling off the lesson.
 
Or if push comes to shove save money for the rest of your spring semester and then come to Texas. I will find a way to put you up for free and you can fly as often as we can weather wise and get you done. Aren't you 16/17. Would your parents allow you to go to "flying camp" in another state?

Just a crazy notion but it really bothers me that you are getting the run around like you are.
 
Jeanie said:
Or if push comes to shove save money for the rest of your spring semester and then come to Texas. I will find a way to put you up for free and you can fly as often as we can weather wise and get you done. Aren't you 16/17. Would your parents allow you to go to "flying camp" in another state?

Just a crazy notion but it really bothers me that you are getting the run around like you are.
Click to expand...
Sounds like the best plan to me.
 
I think the current instructor is not taking you seriously. You are paying for (or trying to) a service that you are barely receiving. I think that I would be looking for a new CFI, even though it is perhaps a bit of a hassle. You are entitled to receive instruction at a level of satisfaction you are happy with.

Flying camp sounds fun.
 
Jeanie said:
"...it really bothers me that you are getting the run around like you are."
Click to expand...

That reminds me! I forgot to mention that I flew with this CFI once before he became my (primary) CFI. At the advice of my old CFI, Dan, I flew with this Dan to get my stall issues taken care of. It worked but what got me upset was the CFI time billed.

CFI pulls up: 12:08
CFI ready to go at 12:20
CFI signed book at 2:12
Hobbs: 1.6 hrs
CFI time: 2.2hrs

I debated this for a good 20 mins with the lady at the desk, my CFI apparently went to lunch...2hrs after getting to work! Finally got the time fixed to 1.9, shoulda realized that it was a precursor to his "professionalism."

THAT is really getting it.

The camp idea sounds great! I'll PM you tomorrow, bed time here.
 
bigblockz8 said:
I am having a couple issues with CFI's. I have had 7, not counting intro flights in almost 13 hours. Here is a list of what happened:

CFI#
1. Got a 737 F/O job

2. Got a CRJ seat

3.Too unprofessional. He told me not to preflight and that we only need to call out base and final. He also liked to start maneuvers without clearing turns. One lesson and left.

4. Got a job with Columbia Helicopters

5. Too many students, booked 2 months in advance. I flew with him by calling daily at 8 am for any cancellations.

6. He got a job at USAir

7. Current CFI

My current CFI is the one that is bothering me. He is frequently late and unprepared. His instruction is good (#6 was the best CFI) but it's the attitude that upsets me. He has a qausi-professional attitude. He is by-the-book in some respects but in others he is as laid back as a cop on the take.

I haven't flown for three weeks now...It is not by choice. I had 4 lessons scheduled with him, all four were cancelled. Two were weather related but the last two have been personal. I understand that it was New Year's Eve but if I am 1/3 students who are all back-to-back, can't you just fly until 2pm? Who parties at 8am? The fourth lesson was cancelled 12hrs ahead due to him being "sick."

The lesson was for today at 8am. I had a friend who went to the airport around 11 to move their plane and he said that he saw him! I completely get that he has a personal life but I do too! I can only fly on weekends or holidays, he knows this. He is normally off on Wednesdays and Sundays/Mondays. I completely get that things pop up but to be spotted at the airport when you claim that you were sick?!?!?!?

This is what upsets me:
1. For 3/3 lessons, he was 15 or more minutes late.
2. Two lessons have been cancelled for personal reason, on the latest cancellation he was spotted at the airport 3hrs after my lesson time.
3. Unprofessional practices.

I hate switching CFI's, it is very inefficient and costs more $. I don't have money to spend on switching every 2-3 lessons. The good ones keep getting picked up by airlines. This CFI is trying for his ATP and is actively seeking employment. I expect him to be around until summer.

To switch, or not to switch: that is the question:
Upset, flight 3/act 1
Click to expand...


Wow! I think I need to stop complaining about my CFI being hard to schedule!
 
ChrisK said:
This might not help much, but I noted during my training so far (I'm at 24 hours) that I was able to schedule time off of work during good weather situations and cancel my time off at the last minute if the weather was not conducive to training. I understand that many, many people do not have this sort of job, nor can they find a flight instructor who is available during working hours, but it helped me keep somewhat current through some of the worst flying weather we've ever had here in Ohio.

The other thing I will mention is that once you get signed off to do takeoffs and landings and some training area flying unsupervised, your instructor won't matter QUITE as much. I was signed off at about 20 hours for a couple of local airports. I think I would have been signed off sooner had I not had to take some mandatory breaks due to the weather I mentioned above.
Click to expand...


I just did my PP checkride 2 1/2 weeks ago and my situation/experience was very much the same as above.

I was able to take off when I needed to, but my instructor had so many things going that it was a long road.

Once I got signed off for solo, the whole mindset and progress changed just as Chris described. You're showing persistence and unfortunately, that's one of the necessary ingredients.

Good luck and keep us posted!
 
I think it would be a great thing if you could do the Flying Camp with Jeanie. I've never met her, but from the posts that I've read, along with the encouragement and help that she has offered me, I FULLY expect that she is a top notch person and a top notch instructor.

I wish I could have gone off on such an adventure when I was in High School!
 
Good for Jeannie to offer airplane camp!

Thread Drift Warning:
We frequently hear about the 10 or 14 day "drink from the firehose" courses for IFR (like those from PIC that Cap'n Ron teaches). I wonder why we don't have more schools promoting a 14 day PPL course? If it's shown to save on hours because it's very structured and continues to move along and build on the prior day's skills (like the PIC course), then I'd think there would be some big advantage to doing it.
 
I think that as an IFR student you are ready to drink from a firehouse and
git her done so to speak, at least some can. However, with primary students I think it's good that have a day or so. Between lessons for it to "dwell" at least at first. Naturally, it depends on the person.
 
AggieMike88 said:
We frequently hear about the 10 or 14 day "drink from the firehose" courses for IFR (like those from PIC that Cap'n Ron teaches). I wonder why we don't have more schools promoting a 14 day PPL course?
Click to expand...
I don't see a 14-day PPL course as possible. Too much flight and ground material to learn in that time, and you can't sub as much sim time for the 40-hour min PPL time as you can for IR. My guess is 3-4 weeks to be realistic. The problem then is doing 25 days or so straight, which would probably burn out almost anyone. You might do four weeks of six on/one off, but that's probably the limit.
 
You have other choices in the DC area, if you don't mind a little more drive. KFDK, KJYO, KHEF. I also have a good friend who instructs at Tipton.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Ron Levy said:
I don't see a 14-day PPL course as possible. Too much flight and ground material to learn in that time, and you can't sub as much sim time for the 40-hour min PPL time as you can for IR. My guess is 3-4 weeks to be realistic. The problem then is doing 25 days or so straight, which would probably burn out almost anyone. You might do four weeks of six on/one off, but that's probably the limit.
Click to expand...

I've heard of it done in places with great weather, but just like going to a sim school, there's a lot of prerequisite work that has to get done before the student ever shows up. Most places that offer "accelerated" PPL seem to require the written be completed first.
 
This sounds like a management issue to me. DISCLAIMER***Based on my experience*** if the cheif isn't tracking your progress and asking questions like "when is he/she going to solo?" and "why aren't they ready for the check ride?" Then there is a concern. The instructor doesn't need to be 100% regarding timeline, but they should have a plan or what they think is a plan. Bottom line on bottom: there should always be discussion about a student's progress...if there is none, then there is no goal/plan in anyone's mind...except the student of course.
 
Mach.12 said:
This sounds like a management issue to me. DISCLAIMER***Based on my experience*** if the cheif isn't tracking your progress and asking questions like "when is he/she going to solo?" and "why aren't they ready for the check ride?" Then there is a concern. The instructor doesn't need to be 100% regarding timeline, but they should have a plan or what they think is a plan. Bottom line on bottom: there should always be discussion about a student's progress...if there is none, then there is no goal/plan in anyone's mind...except the student of course.
Click to expand...

Honestly I have no clue who the chief instructor is. I recently realized that I talked to the airport/school owner when he was called by name, I've seen his name on the school's site. Until then, never knew anyone higher (in status at the FBO) than a CFII with an ATP who's part time.
 
There may not be a "chief instructor" - such a thing is not required at a part 61 operation, just talk to the owner.
 
bigblockz8 said:
Honestly I have no clue who the chief instructor is. I recently realized that I talked to the airport/school owner when he was called by name, I've seen his name on the school's site. Until then, never knew anyone higher (in status at the FBO) than a CFII with an ATP who's part time.
Click to expand...

I would change schools. I've trained at four different schools and every time I've met a decision maker within three training iterations. Again...if no one is laying out goals and timelines and communicating them to you (which presumably would be based on their experience) then there is a problem.

Clearly, this is assuming you are giving an honest effort.
 
"1. For 3/3 lessons, he was 15 or more minutes late."

Now is he late just coming in, or is late coming back from a previous flight???

If coming back from another flight, It does and will happen depending on the airport, airspace, student.

If just coming in late, 3/3 is unacceptable.
 
TMetzinger said:
I've heard of it done in places with great weather, but just like going to a sim school, there's a lot of prerequisite work that has to get done before the student ever shows up. Most places that offer "accelerated" PPL seem to require the written be completed first.
Click to expand...
So let us see the syllabus you'd use for a 14 day course at the primary level. I suspect that 14 days would most often turn into 4 weeks. they said I couldn't get my private in 28 days but I did. So maybe you can pull it off in 14 days. Of course Nick thinks it can be done in one day.
 
I feel like I hit the jackpot with my CFII! My training ran from Feb-Dec 2011 (weekends only) and in 50+ hrs, we only canceled for non-wx related items a couple times. He had a family emergency and I was sick once.

It's a shame that the only stories you hear are the bad ones. I'm sure there are a lot of great instructors out there. My instructor was a total professional and I'm proud to call him a friend.
 
Richard said:
So let us see the syllabus you'd use for a 14 day course at the primary level. I suspect that 14 days would most often turn into 4 weeks. they said I couldn't get my private in 28 days but I did. So maybe you can pull it off in 14 days. Of course Nick thinks it can be done in one day.
Click to expand...
OK, assume the written is done (that's one of the assumptions).

Then, in the early summertime in good weather, like around Phoenix (that's another assumption), plan on four lessons per day, each lesson 1.5 to 2 hours. From 7 AM to 7 PM, you should be able to do this and have food and bathroom breaks. You'll have to alter this for night flying, but it still gives you 6-8 hours of flying per day, which works out to 84-112 programmed hours. You've got flexibility then.

Only very well prepared and motivated (and financed) students will complete this schedule.
 
TMetzinger said:
OK, assume the written is done (that's one of the assumptions).

Then, in the early summertime in good weather, like around Phoenix (that's another assumption), plan on four lessons per day, each lesson 1.5 to 2 hours. From 7 AM to 7 PM, you should be able to do this and have food and bathroom breaks. You'll have to alter this for night flying, but it still gives you 6-8 hours of flying per day, which works out to 84-112 programmed hours. You've got flexibility then.

Only very well prepared and motivated (and financed) students will complete this schedule.
Click to expand...


I would fully expect the weather in the Texas Big Bend country to be every bit as conducive to daily flying as it would be in Arizona. Jeanie is in the Texas Big Bend country. For those not familiar with it, it is in far West Texas in an arid climate much like Arizona.
 
But we do have afternoon winds that can be bad and occasional thunder bumpers.
 
Greg- I trained here and am now based here. Send me a PM, we'll arrange to talk on the phone and I can fill you in on who would be likely to help/ not help.


Ron Levy said:
I don't see a 14-day PPL course as possible. Too much flight and ground material to learn in that time, and you can't sub as much sim time for the 40-hour min PPL time as you can for IR. My guess is 3-4 weeks to be realistic. The problem then is doing 25 days or so straight, which would probably burn out almost anyone. You might do four weeks of six on/one off, but that's probably the limit.
Click to expand...


Doesn't the military train primary on a daily schedule, sometimes 2 hops/ day?
 
Richard said:
So let us see the syllabus you'd use for a 14 day course at the primary level. I suspect that 14 days would most often turn into 4 weeks. they said I couldn't get my private in 28 days but I did. So maybe you can pull it off in 14 days. Of course Nick thinks it can be done in one day.
Click to expand...

I think, if my previous suggestions to the PPL requirements were implemented, that it could be done in 1-2 weeks.

As it stands now, I'd be surprised if anyone could successfully run a program like that in less than 60 days. Afterall, you gotta learn how to do those soft field takeoffs that you'll never use, right??
 
SkyHog said:
I think, if my previous suggestions to the PPL requirements were implemented, that it could be done in 1-2 weeks.

As it stands now, I'd be surprised if anyone could successfully run a program like that in less than 60 days. Afterall, you gotta learn how to do those soft field takeoffs that you'll never use, right??
Click to expand...
1 week? There is no absolutely no way.

2 week? Doubt it.
 
jesse said:
1 week? There is no absolutely no way.

2 week? Doubt it.
Click to expand...

If my previous recommendations (elimination of steep turn, turns around a point, soft field work, etc.) were taken, I think a week could be possible.

But as it is currently, you're right. 60 days minimum.
 
SkyHog said:
If my previous recommendations (elimination of steep turn, turns around a point, soft field work, etc.) were taken, I think a week could be possible.

But as it is currently, you're right. 60 days minimum.
Click to expand...
I still can't figure out what about those things you feel delay training. They're building blocks for creating a safe pilot -- I have never had a student say "man these steep turns are really holding me back!". It's how you teach someone to handle an airplane.

I tell students that we're going to work on turning the airplane more steeply, explain how they'll need more rudder, how there may be an overbanking tendancy and we do it. Two or three attempts and any student I've ever had can nail them to PTS.
 
7 instructors in 13 hours /1.85 hours per CFI/ gotta be a record...
If you keep firing them at this rate you will become a legend...


OK CFI's...
Now it is your turn to tell us about your 7 'prize' students...

denny-o
this oughta be good...
 
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