G1000 users - Range knob failure?

Has one of the Range knobs failed on your G1000?

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flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

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Just curious...

Those of you who own and/or know the full maintenance history on G1000-equipped airplanes - How many of you have had a range knob failure, where the range knob does not change the map range when twisted left and right?

Seems a lot of the Diamond owners have had this issue (>25% according to a poll on their site) but Garmin claims there's no issue.
 
Not happened in any of the diamonds I've flown, or the cessnas or the Mooneys.

So far in several hundred hours behind G1000, I've not seen a single failure except the XM weather and audio needing a manual refresh because they "sat through" the last refresh cycle.
 
TMetzinger said:
Not happened in any of the diamonds I've flown, or the cessnas or the Mooneys.

So far in several hundred hours behind G1000, I've not seen a single failure except the XM weather and audio needing a manual refresh because they "sat through" the last refresh cycle.
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I think ours has simply been failed the whole time we've had it. It's the one on the PFD, so all it does is change the range on the little inset map on the lower left of the PFD. The left/right/up/down/push functions still work, it's just the twist function that doesn't work.

Many people have simply opted to leave it as-is when it's on the PFD, or if it's the MFD one (which is obviously more useful/important), they'll simply swap the PFD and MFD rather than send the MFD back to Garmin for replacement ($1400).
 
I've never seen this (or even heard about it until now) on any G1000 unit in the Cessna, Cirrus, and Embraer installations I've flown.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Just curious...

Those of you who own and/or know the full maintenance history on G1000-equipped airplanes - How many of you have had a range knob failure, where the range knob does not change the map range when twisted left and right?

Seems a lot of the Diamond owners have had this issue (>25% according to a poll on their site) but Garmin claims there's no issue.
Click to expand...

Score one for the FAA's "rigorous" Certification process for over-priced avionics! ;)
 
I've been responsible for maintenance for a fleet of three G1000 equipped aircraft for the last 4 years and haven't had any range knob failures.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Many people have simply opted to leave it as-is when it's on the PFD, or if it's the MFD one (which is obviously more useful/important), they'll simply swap the PFD and MFD rather than send the MFD back to Garmin for replacement ($1400).
Click to expand...

I wonder if the range knob failure is a Diamond specific problem (I'm not sure why it would be though). Unfortunately if it happens in some other installation such as the Cirrus Perspective, the PFD and MFD are different GDUs (the MFD only has NAV radio/volume controls and standard set of softkeys) so you can't swap the displays.
 
And I think in GFC700 systems the PFD/MFD are different, no? I don't remember if the GFC700 Cessna has the Autoflight buttons on the PFD.
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
I wonder if the range knob failure is a Diamond specific problem (I'm not sure why it would be though). Unfortunately if it happens in some other installation such as the Cirrus Perspective, the PFD and MFD are different GDUs (the MFD only has NAV radio/volume controls and standard set of softkeys) so you can't swap the displays.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why it would be either... Though maybe it was one specific batch of displays, and Diamond just happened to get that shipment. :dunno:

Or, it could be something Diamond-specific, who knows. The KAP 140 is a good autopilot, but it really works like crap in a lot of Diamonds for some reason. GFC700 works just fine. :dunno:
 
I put about 200hrs on the G1000 T182T and never had a problem with the G1000.

The KrAP140 sux. But you didn't ask about that....:smile:
 
flyersfan31 said:
I put about 200hrs on the G1000 T182T and never had a problem with the G1000.

The KrAP140 sux. But you didn't ask about that....:smile:
Click to expand...

Well, the biggest problem with the G1000/KAP140 combo is that there's basically no integration whatsoever. No GPSS either. You have to set the altimeter setting on both, you have to set the altitude on both, etc.

Garmin could easily have put GPSS into the G1000 and the KAP140 wouldn't know the difference. The KAP140 can accept an external baro setting, but the G1000 won't feed it. The KAP140 won't accept an external altitude preselect. Etc etc etc...

For some reason, they're even worse on the Diamond. They sometimes porpoise on climb and descent (luckily, ours is pretty good if the air is smooth), I've seen it do S-turns around the localizer, etc.

My least favorite "feature" is that you can't engage only one axis. If it starts porpoising enough to tick you off, you've just got to cut it off, there's no way to have the A/P handle the lateral axis and just let the airplane's trim take care of the climb/descent. Even if it's not porpoising, you have to keep changing the VS setting as you climb, or it keeps slowing down.

That said, it's a helluva lot better than not having an autopilot, and it does handle everything from initial climbout down to minimums on the approach.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Just curious...

Those of you who own and/or know the full maintenance history on G1000-equipped airplanes - How many of you have had a range knob failure, where the range knob does not change the map range when twisted left and right?

Seems a lot of the Diamond owners have had this issue (>25% according to a poll on their site) but Garmin claims there's no issue.
Click to expand...

You're turning it wrong. :rofl:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Well, the biggest problem with the G1000/KAP140 combo is that there's basically no integration whatsoever. No GPSS either. You have to set the altimeter setting on both, you have to set the altitude on both, etc.
Click to expand...

Not to get too far off topic, but you nailed it. Integration is lousy between the G1000 and KAP140 and you really have to monitor the unit carefully and be sure you don't forget to put the local altimeter in 3 places (PFD, standby, KAP140).

The GFC700 is hands down a great unit but I guess if I was in Garmin's position I would rather release the G1000 which interfaces with a decent autopilot (KAP140) than wait a while until it is developed with an integrated auto flight system. I always get a kick out of the fact that the G1000 with KAP140 installations have a hidden turn coordinator behind the panel which drives the autopilot. I have a picture of it somewhere but can't find it at the moment. IIRC, it faces backwards too (face of the instrument opposite the panel though its not in view anyway).

The really nice thing I like about the GFC700 is it is being used in some larger aircraft now (KingAir, Phenom series, etc) so the avionics and autoflight transition into the larger products is a snap. It's very intuitive and more or less follows industry standard with the big boys. We can also link the 2 PFD's in the Phenom so anytime you update the altimeter on one side, it updates the other. It's the small things in life that keep us pilots happy. :rofl:
 
Don't blame Garmin for the KAP 140. They were loud and clear that G1000 was gonna be a closed, integrated system and the autopilot was gonna lag. The manufacturers couldn't wait (can't blame them) and pressured Garmin to provide the analog (CDI and heading) information so they could put in a "standard" autopilot. I believe that at one time Cessna buyers who bought the G1000 were promised a free update to the GFC700 upon completion, and WAAS updates too.

The KAP 140 is a good autopilot for what it does. It just isn't that great a fit for the G1000, and pretty much everything, including the high end Chelton system (magic?) pales next to the GFC700.
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
The GFC700 is hands down a great unit but I guess if I was in Garmin's position I would rather release the G1000 which interfaces with a decent autopilot (KAP140) than wait a while until it is developed with an integrated auto flight system.
Click to expand...

I think that by 2004 when the G1000's and KAP140's started being installed together, Garmin already knew they were going to be developing an integrated autopilot and thus didn't go to the effort to allow for the GPSS, baro setting, etc. to work with the KAP140. All the more reason to get the GFC700, ya know? Except you can't upgrade to it. :dunno:

I always get a kick out of the fact that the G1000 with KAP140 installations have a hidden turn coordinator behind the panel which drives the autopilot. I have a picture of it somewhere but can't find it at the moment. IIRC, it faces backwards too (face of the instrument opposite the panel though its not in view anyway).
Click to expand...

I've seen the picture, but doesn't it face forwards? I guess if your PFD fails you can just rip it off the panel quick so you can see the turn coordinator. :rofl:

If it was mounted backwards (I assume you mean the face of the instrument is towards the front of the plane?) wouldn't it also work backwards?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
If it was mounted backwards (I assume you mean the face of the instrument is towards the front of the plane?) wouldn't it also work backwards?
Click to expand...

I forget since I haven't seen it in a while. The picture is in a Garmin powerpoint which I can't seem to locate on my machine anymore. I guess that doesn't really make sense that it would face backwards though. Not sure.

Either way, it's a true rube goldberg design (why not just display it as an extra standby instrument?). Just like the aft cabin zone temp selector on the 727-200 which pours hot bleed air into the forward cabin to trick the temperature sensors into thinking its warm and thus cooling down the entire cabin.
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
I wonder if the range knob failure is a Diamond specific problem (I'm not sure why it would be though). Unfortunately if it happens in some other installation such as the Cirrus Perspective, the PFD and MFD are different GDUs (the MFD only has NAV radio/volume controls and standard set of softkeys) so you can't swap the displays.
Click to expand...

I had a range knob failure on MFD at about 850 hours, based on my understanding its not if its when you will have a failure.
Ensure that you have the Garmin SD card to reconfigure the new LRU, and be prepared to get used to having your tach hours down to Zero.

I had an enormous amount of help to get Garmin and Diamond to write a program to get the Tach on the engine screen to read the proper amount of Tach hours, I had Jeff Owen from Premier to intervene of his own will and accord, he offered to contact Diamond and Garmin and two weeks later my Garmin dealer got a custom made program on an SD card and reset the hours to 853...or whatever it was.
I have never met Jeff or done any business with him but he is a savior, very nice person and very helpful.:goofy:
It it was a Cessna there is no way this would happen.
Please ensure that you have the Garmin SD card in your POH...dont ask why I feel so strong about this recomendation:mad2::mad2::yikes:
 
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