So, did this guy just kill his career?

One part of the problem is the corruption of LEO with the idea that LEO have the right to commit the felony they euphemistically call the "silent blue code" Leo seems to have forgotten that to conceal suppress or alter evidence of a possible crime is in most cases a felony. the Law provides no exception just because you wear a uniform. I see the "silent blue code" as the MOST disrespectful thing a person can to to the uniform and badge of LEO. LEO GET a clue , Even staunch law abiding Law and order supporters (like me) are disgusted by the lack of respect to the badge that i see daily from LEO. Sadly it seems I have far more respect for the badge & law & order that the MAJORITY (YES, majority and I CAN back up that statement with facts) of LEO. DaveR
 
I don't know how his employer will react, but I've got to say he must be really fed up. Not many people, despite all their belly-aching about TSA procedures and policies, are willing to stand up and put it all on the line to say "not any more".
 
Greg Bockelman said:
In my opinion, probably not. Thing is, it is about time someone took a stand, and if this is the catalyst that it takes to get the issue addressed, then ALPA should run with it.
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Yeah, and I doubt it'd kill his career anyways. Might cost him his job, especially if he winds up on one of those stupid no-fly lists.
 
Someone's career should be ended over this nonsense, but not the pilot's...
 
Does ALPA have a better record with TSA than anybody else? If so, I'd like to join.

Greg Bockelman said:
In my opinion, probably not. Thing is, it is about time someone took a stand, and if this is the catalyst that it takes to get the issue addressed, then ALPA should run with it.
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Ddayle said:
One part of the problem is the corruption of LEO with the idea that LEO have the right to commit the felony they euphemistically call the "silent blue code" Leo seems to have forgotten that to conceal suppress or alter evidence of a possible crime is in most cases a felony. the Law provides no exception just because you wear a uniform. I see the "silent blue code" as the MOST disrespectful thing a person can to to the uniform and badge of LEO. LEO GET a clue , Even staunch law abiding Law and order supporters (like me) are disgusted by the lack of respect to the badge that i see daily from LEO. Sadly it seems I have far more respect for the badge & law & order that the MAJORITY (YES, majority and I CAN back up that statement with facts) of LEO. DaveR
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WTF are you talking about, over?
 
alaskaflyer said:
WTF are you talking about, over?
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Didn't you read the post ? It is obvious that the each of the LEO officials that pilot met were more concerned with protecting thisr fellows than justice. Maybe you should have read the post before you reply.
 
Ddayle said:
Didn't you read the post ? It is obvious that the each of the LEO officials that pilot met were more concerned with protecting thisr fellows than justice. Maybe you should have read the post before you reply.
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I read the entire post and didn't understand the meaning behind your original post either. The above "cliff's notes" version made more sense to me. Thanks for explaining. Those not in law enforcement might not understand LEO, either. I know that's not a problem for alaskaflyer, though. :)
 
TangoWhiskey said:
I read the entire post and didn't understand the meaning behind your original post either. The above "cliff's notes" version made more sense to me. Thanks for explaining. Those not in law enforcement might not understand LEO, either. I know that's not a problem for alaskaflyer, though. :)
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I guess I am guilty of ASSUMING everyone saw the farcical efforts of the LEO as more a cover up of their own incompetence than as any real attempt to really protect the public. my post stand. I still beleive it is relevant and the underlying cause of many of the problems our society faces. My REAL hope is to see HONESTY AND INTEGRITY return to LEO. Dave
 
Ddayle said:
I guess I am guilty of ASSUMING everyone saw the farcical efforts of the LEO as more a cover up of their own incompetence than as any real attempt to really protect the public. my post stand. I still beleive it is relevant and the underlying cause of many of the problems our society faces. My REAL hope is to see HONESTY AND INTEGRITY return to LEO. Dave
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And common sense. :fcross:
 
Wow.

Good on him.

Now HE is worthy of the name "Patriot."

This should be a seminal incident in the stand against the erosion of our civil liberties. Sadly, he'll be tossed on the dungheap by his employer, guaranteed.
 
He is toast...
You don't give the finger to the king and expect a kiss on the cheek in return...
I hope he has other things he likes/can-do for a living...
I expect his ATP/CFI ticket to be questioned if not suspended under an emergency order by the DOT, on orders from the TSA...
He will likely be placed on the no fly list, and even if not he can expect a compete body cavity search every time he enters an airport, in perpetuity...

You can rant and rave about 'rights' but I guarantee a jury made of airline passengers (who demand absolute security as being their RIGHT) will cheerfully send him to the gallows...

The Constitution created the Congress and the Congress created the TSA and gave the head honcho an order to make the airlines secure - and gave him absolute authority to do so... If you want to change the power of the TSA you have to change the Congress... Anything else is just hot air...

denny-o
 
Dr. O said:
He is toast...
You can rant and rave about 'rights' but I guarantee a jury made of airline passengers (who demand absolute security as being their RIGHT) will cheerfully send him to the gallows...
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You guarantee? The person posted to a web site for frequent flyers, and the link failed to show the entire thread of responses. Looked like he has a lot of support from airline passengers:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1137159-today-day.html#post14955004

My advice is not to take any bets about how you think a jury of passengers would rule. :wink2:
 
Well, I think he did a very good job of saying "If the rules keep changing, and security keeps getting more intrusive, then I'm not playing anymore." And this is hopefully more effective than calling in and quitting the job.

He really can't claim surprise (I'm shocked, SHOCKED to find gambling in Rick's... Your winnings, sir) that his choices were the body imaging or the pat-down. So he shouldn't have been surprised to find he'd be denied entry to the airport.

I'd love to see ALPA stage a one day strike over this, or see the public have a "no-fly" day in protest, so that some real economic damage and publicity results (which might get the attention of the Congress).

But until there's some sort of critical mass of citizens that say "no more" to this kind of BS, the Airport chief is right - those liberties are already gone.

I was going to post a thread at one point asking if the USA was in decline as a society (like the Romans and the Greeks and the... before us), but incidents like this make the question seem moot to me.

Feeling bad,
 
Good for him, about time someone has some balls and stands for something in this country anymore.
 
TMetzinger said:
He really can't claim surprise (I'm shocked, SHOCKED to find gambling in Rick's... Your winnings, sir) that his choices were the body imaging or the pat-down. So he shouldn't have been surprised to find he'd be denied entry to the airport.
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I'm sure he wasn't surprised, in fact I think he planned to do it rather than it being a spur of the moment thing. The link in the first post has another link at the top which says "See this thread for additional background". I clicked on that and towards the end of the thread SpatialD (the pilot in question) writes...

More than anything I've been trying to get this message in front of the general population, which means getting it in front of people like you who will 'go viral' with it. Please don't stop sharing it with anyone who will listen. Sooner or later, there has to be a tipping point where the TSA will just have to hang it up (I don't think they're quite ready to break out the riot gear just yet).
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He posted that on September 23 and the incident and the post, "Today was the day" is dated October 15.
 
The government is a meat grinder and this guy is fresh meat. However it may be possible to leverage his convictions with meaningful actions. If 20% of the passengers in these body scanner lines would opt out, the process would bog down and fail. Sustain this effort, and they'll HAVE to do something.

I can tell you right now I will not go through a body scanner.
 
"I can tell you right now I will not go through a body scanner." why not? If it saves me time it sure seems like an easy & innocuous solution. I Have nothing up my keister to hide, & enough manhood to not be ashamed. I am not sure i understand the fuss. It is not a privacy issue unless you watch the pundits & believe them. Dave PS No contradiction here, I support his right to OPT out even if i don't see why the fuss. Plus the reaction of the LEO was outrageous. DR
 
Ddayle said:
Didn't you read the post ? It is obvious that the each of the LEO officials that pilot met were more concerned with protecting thisr fellows than justice. Maybe you should have read the post before you reply.
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That might relevant if TSOs and TSIs were LEOs, which they aren't.
 
The whole thing is such B*lls*it. My brother in law who is an ATC manager regularly walks through and past security at his facility/field all day, everyday.

If I get in my plane at an uncontrolled field: no TSA, no fences, no gates and passcards, and fly into, lets say my home field: gates, passcards, fences, cameras, the whole shebang, oops, I am on the airside, inside the 'security' fence and no one has even said hello!

Believe me I am not advocating for more 'security' but just how bizarre the notion of security really is and how even though it gets more and more intrusive, it really accomplishes nothing except a perception of such.

(for posting this, I might see a ramp check in my future)

Full scanner body search, no way, and I would advise my wife and daughters to never ever submit to one either.

Tim's correct: Greece, Rome, United States: all travelled down the same path to oblivion

"Any society that would give up Liberty to gain Security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin
 
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Ddayle said:
"I can tell you right now I will not go through a body scanner." why not? If it saves me time it sure seems like an easy & innocuous solution. I Have nothing up my keister to hide, & enough manhood to not be ashamed. I am not sure i understand the fuss. It is not a privacy issue unless you watch the pundits & believe them. Dave PS No contradiction here, I support his right to OPT out even if i don't see why the fuss. Plus the reaction of the LEO was outrageous. DR
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Why not?Here's why....

Add in the fact that many of these machines use ionizing radiation to accomplish the task (and some have been noted to see through skin and expose bone), one may ask whether there is long term cumulative exposure risk. Granted that the Government says "no, there is not", but that was also said about flouroscopes (remember those?) in shoe stores. I would feel a lot better about the exposure issue if there were some kind of periodic and repeated certification of the machines & the exposure levels (like the certification of medical x-rays, for example), but again there's not. Heck, there are standards established for CRT-based televisions to avoid exposure. I'm not worried about the machines that use RF as opposed to x-rays as RF is generally non-ionizing.

When I went through LAX on Friday I noted that most of the folks chosen for the strip-search machine were attractive women.... very few of the overweight, supersized travelers were sent that way.
 
wsuffa said:
Why not?Here's why....

Add in the fact that many of these machines use ionizing radiation to accomplish the task (and some have been noted to see through skin and expose bone), one may ask whether there is long term cumulative exposure risk. Granted that the Government says "no, there is not", but that was also said about flouroscopes (remember those?) in shoe stores.
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No, but I remember agent orange.

When I went through LAX on Friday I noted that most of the folks chosen for the strip-search machine were attractive women.... very few of the overweight, supersized travelers were sent that way.
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I don't believe you. That would be unprofessional. (do I really have to put a smilie here, or is it obvious enough?)
 
Ddayle said:
If it saves me time it sure seems like an easy & innocuous solution.
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I have heard that it is NOT any faster and may actually take longer. With the metal detector, all you have to do is walk through it. With the scanner, it takes maybe 30 seconds or so to do the scan.
 
wsuffa said:
Why not?Here's why....
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That's one reason. And there's many others.

It's an unnecessary and unreasonable intrusion of privacy. I'm sure some people don't mind strip searches, but I and many others certainly do. It costs a huge amount of money and accomplishes nothing. It's _much_ slower. And the question to ask is never "why not", it's "why". There's no justification for these machines. Well, except for CYA security, of course.

The scary thing is that most passengers are too much like sheep to think for themselves.
 
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