3,000 foot runway... 3,500 foot landing on Catalina Island :(

Not very good off road vehicles, those Cirrus. Wonder if they brought a change of underwear? :D
 
Hmmm...but I suppose someone's that's so far behind the airplane that he can't figure out when to go around probably isn't going to think to pull the chute handle.
 
I read the story a few days ago, and I have to say there's a lot less damage there than I would have guessed.
 
Cirrus tells you landing procedures for a reason.

What an unthoughtfull way to end such a beautiful airplane.
 
At least it didn't end up as a burning pile of carbon. Which makes me wonder how much fuel was remaining - after reading the story, it seems plausible that this idiot had enough fuel for only one approach.
 
dmccormack said:
I'm sure it is. What's not listed is how many feet of runway is flown over dissipating all that speed.


:rolleyes:
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Should be less than a third of the runway right? That's what I was taught. If they'd put it down in the first third they would have been OK.
 
dmccormack said:
I'm sure it is. What's not listed is how many feet of runway is flown over dissipating all that speed.


:rolleyes:
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The specs list a 2,344 ft landing distance over a 50 ft obstacle, so I guess a sufficiently motivated person could estimate...
 
COFlyBoy said:
Should be less than a third of the runway right? That's what I was taught. If they'd put it down in the first third they would have been OK.
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You're absolutely correct. The runway at Catalina is PLENTY long for a SR22. If you don't get stopped by the midpoint, you're not looking at your approach speeds.

I've flown there plenty of times in the Bonanza. The runway even has a uphill slope for the first half of it.

-Felix
 
sba55 said:
The runway even has a uphill slope for the first half of it.
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And how. The elevation of the approach end of rwy 22 is 1560'; two-thirds of the way down the runway it levels off at 1602'.

Many years ago I watched a Cherokee pilot lock brakes as he neared the crown, apparently thinking that was the end of the runway. He skidded sideways, popped a tire and came to rest at the second turnoff, pointing 90 degrees off runway heading with another 1,000' of runway left. :blush:
 
Pilawt said:
And how. The elevation of the approach end of rwy 22 is 1560'; two-thirds of the way down the runway it levels off at 1602'.

Many years ago I watched a Cherokee pilot lock brakes as he neared the crown, apparently thinking that was the end of the runway. He skidded sideways, popped a tire and came to rest at the second turnoff, pointing 90 degrees off runway heading with another 1,000' of runway left. :blush:
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Ah yes, that does seem to be a fairly common occurrence judging by the skid-marks at the midway point! If you're not prepared for it, it really does look like the runway's ending.... :yikes:
 
Trapper John said:
The specs list a 2,344 ft landing distance over a 50 ft obstacle, so I guess a sufficiently motivated person could estimate...
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Sounds like a good idea to cross the threshold at less than 50 feet (as well as at the recommended airspeed).
 
:mad2:

How many times must this happen??????
 
I swear there are a dozen or so incidents a year over there.

I suggest they install a giant catcher's mitt on the end of the runway.

Cost to use the mitt is $10,000, billable to insurance.

With the proceeds, they can adios the $25 landing fees, and continue to paint the runway potholes black for years to come. Everyone wins.
 
schmookeeg said:
I swear there are a dozen or so incidents a year over there.

I suggest they install a giant catcher's mitt on the end of the runway.

Cost to use the mitt is $10,000, billable to insurance.

With the proceeds, they can adios the $25 landing fees, and continue to paint the runway potholes black for years to come. Everyone wins.
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That...actually sounds like a good idea. :eek:
 
schmookeeg said:
I swear there are a dozen or so incidents a year over there.

I suggest they install a giant catcher's mitt on the end of the runway.

Cost to use the mitt is $10,000, billable to insurance.

With the proceeds, they can adios the $25 landing fees, and continue to paint the runway potholes black for years to come. Everyone wins.
Click to expand...

A chain link fence does remarkably well at catching an errent Lincoln Town Car, so one ought to work just fine bringing your random Cirrus to a stop...
 
I agree there is less damage than I imagined when I read about this one. Looks reparable to me.

I've landed at AVX many times in a Cirrus, plenty of runway if you don't make big mistakes.

Our club and many LA FBOs require an instructor checkout to fly there. Whether or not you need a CFI is open for debate but I strongly suggest going there with someone else the first time.

One of the main issues is the prevailing wind is from the west and you have a fairly steep cliff on the east end. So there is usually a decent down draft there, and no ground effect, UNTIL you cross the threshold, then no down draft and plenty of ground effect. So it's easy to screw the pooch.

Joe

edit: I like Mike's idea of a catcher's mitt to reduce the landing fee.
 
The problem is not with the Cirrus aircraft, the problem is the idiot holding the stick. I've landed there many times, day and night, even when the VASI was out (someone landed on it) in all sorts of airplanes, never had a problem. Wrigley used to come in in his old Citation with no TRs. He had to land well past mid field not to make that.
 
flyersfan31 said:
:mad2:

How many times must this happen??????
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Until mentall aptitude becomes a requirement for a pilots license. As long as we treat aviation as an "Everyone can, come on and learn to fly" thing, this will continue to happen. There is nothing particularly difficult about the airport there. If you use the visual cues you should be using on final and landing and fly the aircraft the way it should be flown, there are no problems there, most all GA aircraft will make the first turnoff and avoid the speed bump. If you're going to hit the speed bump, just get off the brakes and hold the nose up. If you haven't landed by the second turn off, you should probably go around. It's sheer stupidity that causes the problems at AVX, nothing else.
 
Henning said:
Until mentall aptitude becomes a requirement for a pilots license. As long as we treat aviation as an "Everyone can, come on and learn to fly" thing, this will continue to happen. There is nothing particularly difficult about the airport there. If you use the visual cues you should be using on final and landing and fly the aircraft the way it should be flown, there are no problems there, most all GA aircraft will make the first turnoff and avoid the speed bump. If you're going to hit the speed bump, just get off the brakes and hold the nose up. If you haven't landed by the second turn off, you should probably go around. It's sheer stupidity that causes the problems at AVX, nothing else.
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:yes:

Nothing more to add.

-Felix
 
PILOTS EAT THEIR YOUNG

​
Well done all you who beat the **** out of the dude. God forbid any of us should make the headlines.
 
If your too high, too hot or both....GO AROUND!

Duh!
 
Everything depends on the pilot (and he probably needed Depends during that landing)...

Part of my training in multi included putting an Aztec at close to gross weight into a 2800 strip ending on a drop off into Lake Huron... The CFI demonstrated one and the takeoff, then told me it was all mine... My first landing was at full pucker, sweating arm pits, and a shaky throttle hand - but it went well with some coaching and a few bleeped words from the rear seats... The second time was nervous city without a word from the right seat - and no swearing from the back seats... The third time around was, 'ho hum, just another day at the office' with even time for discussing the white caps rolling onto the beach... The value of a competent CFI and some quality training cannot be estimated...

The problem with the Cirrus is that it attracts yuppies who have the money to move quickly from a Cherokee into a high performance airplane but not much experience beyond the home base with its 5000 foot runways...

denny-o
 
To me it is a lack of judgment.
- personal limitations (may be AVX is too much for me)
- mind set (go around vs I must land)
- evaluation ( when things looks bad go around)
- mishandling airplane (knowing performance)
and etc..
 
Henning said:
Fixed that for ya...
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Swell, Henning. My point still applies.

We all talk about expanding the envelope, etc. Yet someone does one, two, three dumb things in a row and they get hammered by their peers. (Ok, maybe being a dumb cluck retracts the peer status)

Maybe a plane should have a big red knob marked EMERGENCY which when pulled allows the aircraft to fly itself out of harm. Then would the general public perceive flight as a worthy advocation? Isn't this what it's all about? We're so afraid every accident will perpetuate the perception that flying is dangerous and to be avoided at all costs.

I think the GA fleet is in need of serious therapy.
 
Richard said:
We all talk about expanding the envelope, etc. Yet someone does one, two, three dumb things in a row and they get hammered by their peers. (Ok, maybe being a dumb cluck retracts the peer status)
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I don't think this guy was expanding the envelope- it seems more like he either hadn't really learned some basics about patterns, ramp etiquette, and energy management on approach, or had decided he could safely ignore whatever he'd been told about these things.
I hope he's hammered himself after this predictable ending to a day of misjudgment. That's every pilot's privilege-and responsibility, and it should be enough... it's not very nice to have salt rubbed in your wounds by others. I say that as a very fallible pilot who has done, and will do, some dumb things. For the record, I've landed unacceptably long (smoked the brakes) only once, on a much shorter runway... my passenger was vomiting, and it distracted me. Since then, I've cheerfully gone around many times with great success. The goal is not perfection, but maximum perception of imperfection, if you ask me.

Maybe a plane should have a big red knob marked EMERGENCY which when pulled allows the aircraft to fly itself out of harm. Then would the general public perceive flight as a worthy advocation? Isn't this what it's all about? We're so afraid every accident will perpetuate the perception that flying is dangerous and to be avoided at all costs.
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No! The "big red knob" thing is one of the key factors in the "Cirrus Syndrome"... this accident is, IMHO, yet another example of how a perfectly good airplane can wind up in the hands of someone who has probably been suckered into thinking it is something other than just an airplane (that is, a machine which is only as sensible as its operator).
I am concerned about public perception, but only in a secondary way- I think most pilots will agree that there is stuff that is "just not right", and even harsh criticism serves a constructive purpose among pilots. I'm sure the most ignorant and fearful "Chicken Littles" out there are wondering how an airplane could actually be capable of allowing an accident, but we pilots know damn well where the fault lies.
 
At this time I have no disagreements with what you said.

AVX has duped many an experienced pilot. Witness the Citation sliding into the gully on a botched go-around/no, let's continue the landing/no, let's go around. Stupid is as stupid does. Let's all kick his ass, ok?

In an unfamiliar plane I landed with the parking brake engaged. I salvaged the landing pretty quickly but still....

Unfamiliar with the aprt, unfamiliar with the aircraft...where is the diff? Kick my ass?

For what quite possibly is the most exasperating display of pilot hijinks, any Saturday at Corona (KAJO) has to take the cake.
 
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Richard said:
For what quite possibly is the most exasperating display of pilot hijinks, any Saturday at Corona (KAJO) has to take the cake.
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I agree completely. Sadly, it's the same 5 or 10 bad actors, over and over again -- and no amount of intervention (or whatever the opposite of "eating our young" is) seems to rein them in.

If we install a catcher mitt at AVX, I'm also installing a giant flyswatter at AJO. :)
 
schmookeeg said:
If we install a catcher mitt at AVX, I'm also installing a giant flyswatter at AJO. :)
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I wonder how we get Mike appointed to the County Airport Commission? AJO is in LA county isn't it or is it just inside the Riverside boundary?
 
At least his kids were unharmed. Hopefully they learned that their dad is a crappy pilot and won't fly with him anymore. That way, the next time he pulls a stunt like this, he only kills himself.
 
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