Van’s Aircraft Facing Challenges

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It's never just one thing. But failures happen in every industry and business. Good financial management provides the resilience to withstand unexpected negative events. If Van's accounting house was in order, they would have the cash flow to survive the QC failure.
The fish rots from the head. Maybe that's a little too strong language, but the end result is the same. This was a top down issue, guaranteed. I agree, the qc issue broke the camel's back, but that camel was hobbling along on two legs for a while. Huge growth brings huge problems. Making stuff isn't easy.
 
Oh, I don't know. I feel like I could argue well that the Feds twisted the "supply chain disruptions" knob. (The wrong way)

LOL! Not my meaning.

Not the “feds,” The Fed. Federal Reserve.
 
I've seen that image posted a number of times in various places; I have yet to see the point of it. What exactly is the point?

Now I'm just your friendly neighborhood translator so don't go shooting at me. I believe the illustration points to the specious nature to the concept of "free market" as parroted by Americans, as well as the myth of competition within the American-inflection brand of "capitalism". Both critiques (the former usually more than the latter) are often resisted/rejected/dismissed by [self-described] upper middle class social conservatives, or folks with upper 20% national HHIs or higher. In fairness, this forum tends to be an echo chamber for said demographic, given the inordinate entry price for the hobby these days.

--brk brk--

As to inflation, I'm doing my part by removing my demand and exercising price elasticity. For the record, my current exit from the hobby is 100% due to the outsized increase in quoted labor and parts, and asking prices for replacement aircraft that specifically started in late 2020 and persist to present day. I had no issue with pricing points pre-2019 relative to my meager pay increases (some inflation-adjusted, most not). At any rate, it's an inconsequential step to take as an individual, but one I hope will continue to add into the demand softening that the Fed is attempting to achieve at the macro level.

We are fortunate in that we locked in housing costs in 2018, and transportation costs in 2019, so we should be able to ride out the stagflationary storm for at least the next decade. It won't be fun, but then again neither were the 1970s for many people. The rest is discretionary expenses we can cut out, and I'm sure we'll find some substitute goods/services to fill the gap to a copacetic level.

The one item where we have had to eat it (pun very much intended) is groceries. We don't find it prudent to significantly reduce our caloric intake just to keep inflation parity, so we exhibit quite a bit of price inelasticity when it comes to foodstuff and intake. We have cut out sit-in dining options, though in fairness that has had more to do with my wife's horrid work schedules opposite mine, which yield little time for the former "weekends together" pedestrian schedule. Be that as it may, we do hope that pressure contributes to aggregate softening demand in the economy. To wit, I've seen advertising for meal-delivery services for these vendors now offering payment plans.... oof, shark meet ski jump.

Our hearts go out to friends and neighbors who are having to eat less and more poorly, because they don't have the ability or willingness to undershoot housing the way we were lucky to. It's rough out there in main street, even if things are "normal normal good blinker" in upper middle class street.

Alright that's as far as I'll go into my socioeconomic commentary for the day, for the rest you'll have to wait for my first book out of retirement :D (big demand for an audiobook offering, which has pleasantly caught me by surprise). :thumbsup:
 
Now I'm just your friendly neighborhood translator so don't go shooting at me. I believe the illustration points to the specious nature to the concept of "free market" as parroted by Americans, as well as the myth of competition within the American-inflection brand of "capitalism". Both critiques (the former usually more than the latter) are often resisted/rejected/dismissed by [self-described] upper middle class social conservatives, or folks with upper 20% national HHIs or higher. In fairness, this forum tends to be an echo chamber for said demographic, given the inordinate entry price for the hobby these days.

--brk brk--

As to inflation, I'm doing my part by removing my demand and exercising price elasticity. For the record, my current exit from the hobby is 100% due to the outsized increase in quoted labor and parts, and asking prices for replacement aircraft that specifically started in late 2020 and persist to present day. I had no issue with pricing points pre-2019 relative to my meager pay increases (some inflation-adjusted, most not). At any rate, it's an inconsequential step to take as an individual, but one I hope will continue to add into the demand softening that the Fed is attempting to achieve at the macro level.

We are fortunate in that we locked in housing costs in 2018, and transportation costs in 2019, so we should be able to ride out the stagflationary storm for at least the next decade. It won't be fun, but then again neither were the 1970s for many people. The rest is discretionary expenses we can cut out, and I'm sure we'll find some substitute goods/services to fill the gap to a copacetic level.

The one item where we have had to eat it (pun very much intended) is groceries. We don't find it prudent to significantly reduce our caloric intake just to keep inflation parity, so we exhibit quite a bit of price inelasticity when it comes to foodstuff and intake. We have cut out sit-in dining options, though in fairness that has had more to do with my wife's horrid work schedules opposite mine, which yield little time for the former "weekends together" pedestrian schedule. Be that as it may, we do hope that pressure contributes to aggregate softening demand in the economy. To wit, I've seen advertising for meal-delivery services for these vendors now offering payment plans.... oof, shark meet ski jump.

Our hearts go out to friends and neighbors who are having to eat less and more poorly, because they don't have the ability or willingness to undershoot housing the way we were lucky to. It's rough out there in main street, even if things are "normal normal good blinker" in upper middle class street.

Alright that's as far as I'll go into my socioeconomic commentary for the day, for the rest you'll have to wait for my first book out of retirement :D (big demand for an audiobook offering, which has pleasantly caught me by surprise). :thumbsup:
To be fair , that image is often posted by people who advocate for a new system where everything originates from just one entity … but thats a topic for another discussion and another forum ….
 
Ah yes, market competition. What a fine concept.

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The chart has some errors. Many of the beverages ascribed to Pepsi aren't made by them. At best Pepsi holds distribution rights for some of them (OceanSpray in single bottles, international distribution of 7-up.
 
Ah got it, still looks longer to do it correctly, and probably more difficult to program. But you still have to inspect.
Nope. My nesting software allows me to pick which type of lead in I want on inside offsets. It's literally just a different "click". Same time to program. It would take longer to get the sheet on the table than to nest and program the whole cut cycle. Adding a lead out, which I only do when cutting 3/4" or thicker plate is just an extra click of the mouse.

As far as time saved to do it correctly, the cut MIGHT be 1/8" of an inch longer doing it with the proper lead in and lead out. These are small holes. On a machine that probably runs 250 inches per minute. 2000 pierces would add an extra 1 minute to the cut cycle.

But yes, you have to inspect. Take one part of the lot and work it yourself.
 
For the record, my current exit from the hobby is 100% due to the outsized increase in quoted labor and parts,

Just curious - did you look at buying a used engine as an option, or did you only price overhauls?

 
Does quoting one's own posts qualify as illeism? Asking for a friend ;)
 
Vans FB page has numerous comments about their integrity in sharing so much information.

If one is married, or coupled, and one spouse controls the finances, and runs out of money, then wakes up one day and finally admits to not having any more money, I really doubt that the other spouse would congratulate them on having integrity.

I'd say this is a complete failure of leadership regardless of cause(s). They might be good people, just bad business people.
 
Vans FB page has numerous comments about their integrity in sharing so much information.

If one is married, or coupled, and one spouse controls the finances, and runs out of money, then wakes up one day and finally admits to not having any more money, I really doubt that the other spouse would congratulate them on having integrity.

I'd say this is a complete failure of leadership regardless of cause(s). They might be good people, just bad business people.
Just like the vansairforce forum their Facebook page is highly moderated with many of the negatives quickly removed.
 
I suspect the point is economic illiteracy in pursuit of a political agenda.
It usually seems that way.
Or perhaps the point is to illustrate the “free market” concept is simply a general falsehood.
Again, not getting that from the diagram. Even if it were completely accurate, it fails at that goal. Yes, there has been a consolidation of brands over time, as there has been going back decades or centuries. Bigger companies buy smaller ones, and successful companies buy the struggling ones. Popular brand names remain long after the original company is gone.

Regardless, consumers are still free to make their own choices. There are countless other brands for the products made by those ten large conglomerates. If you want lower cost, or higher quality, or organic fair trade, or additive free, or made by a local or regional company -- you can find it.

I'm curious to know what aspect of that diagram you think indicates the lack of a free market economy.

Now I'm just your friendly neighborhood translator so don't go shooting at me. I believe the illustration points to the specious nature to the concept of "free market" as parroted by Americans, as well as the myth of competition within the American-inflection brand of "capitalism". Both critiques (the former usually more than the latter) are often resisted/rejected/dismissed by [self-described] upper middle class social conservatives, or folks with upper 20% national HHIs or higher. In fairness, this forum tends to be an echo chamber for said demographic, given the inordinate entry price for the hobby these days.
Please don't take this personally, but that's really a bunch of twaddle. It was equally twaddle when we were in the bottom few percent of the country in income, and has remained so over the years.

Neither we nor any other country have a pure free market economy. We don't have a pure democracy either -- and I don't think anyone would be truly happy with either one.
 
Again, not getting that from the diagram. Even if it were completely accurate, it fails at that goal. Yes, there has been a consolidation of brands over time, as there has been going back decades or centuries. Bigger companies buy smaller ones, and successful companies buy the struggling ones. Popular brand names remain long after the original company is gone.

Regardless, consumers are still free to make their own choices. There are countless other brands for the products made by those ten large conglomerates. If you want lower cost, or higher quality, or organic fair trade, or additive free, or made by a local or regional company -- you can find it.
Exactly. The brewing industry illustrates this pretty well. A few mega-conglomerates dominate the world market for beer sales, generally keeping the brand names of all of the breweries that they've bought out. But new, and very good, craft breweries spring up constantly. There is never a shortage of small independents supplying the market. Sure, as some of those craft brewers get big and successful they, too get bought out by a conglomerate. And new independents start up to take their place.
 
Exactly. The brewing industry illustrates this pretty well. A few mega-conglomerates dominate the world market for beer sales, generally keeping the brand names of all of the breweries that they've bought out. But new, and very good, craft breweries spring up constantly. There is never a shortage of small independents supplying the market. Sure, as some of those craft brewers get big and successful they, too get bought out by a conglomerate. And new independents start up to take their place.

And even that ignores the competition that can exist between the different conglomerates.
 
Reminds me a little bit of the book (Iacocca) I’m reading but only on a smaller scale. Chrysler had a cash flow problem because of massive operating costs…and the 70s oil crisis. Iacocca trimmed the fat, got govt loans, started a new line (K cars) and saved the company.

Really can’t see Vans surviving without some furloughs and bank loans to pay off their debt. Really no need to introduce new models since their existing models are solid sellers. Priority should be getting cash to address the laser cut issues then start getting kits out the door again. Just hope they don’t go down the path of Glasair and get bought out by China.
 
And even that ignores the competition that can exist between the different conglomerates.
For anti-trust enforcement purposes, the government defines sufficient competition as 3 viable producers.

Pick virtually any consumer product and there is way more than that. Cars, for instance. Here is a graphic of auto market share in the US last year. It is a rolling brawl, 20 fighters in a cage.

Honestly the stupidity of the counter argument just amazes me.

Car market share US.PNG
 
The point is that we don’t live in a free market. It’s all actually controlled by a handful of corporations while we live under an illusion of a marketplace.
 
The point is that we don’t live in a free market. It’s all actually controlled by a handful of corporations while we live under an illusion of a marketplace.

The North Koreans live under an illusion. We live with competition. There could be more competitors, but to try to claim that we all live under the rule of dictators when places like NK still exist is asinine.
 
The point is that we don’t live in a free market. It’s all actually controlled by a handful of corporations while we live under an illusion of a marketplace.
I disagree. A number of corporations have gotten really big, but in any case you'd care to mention there is still competition. If one supplier dominates a particular field, it's because that's what people buy, not the other way around. But that's not really what the term "free market" is about; that's about government control of markets. I think you and many other people confuse "free market" with "competitive market". Just like there are good reasons why we don't really want a perfect democracy or a perfect free market, we probably don't really want a perfect competitive market either.

I was reminded of the whole competitive market thing a few days ago when I was shopping for a bag of tortilla chips. The store shelves were well stocked with Doritos at close to $7 per bag, which it's hard to argue is anything but lunacy. But right below that was the $1.79 store brand, and a few feet away were the $1.99 bags of Mission chips. Don't like Pepsico/Frito-Lay? Buy from Gruma, or Utz, or whoever makes the store brand chips. Or any of the others, for that matter.
 
You apparently missed the recent Bud Light demonstration of the power of a free market.

I think that was a demonstration of the power of not knowing their demographic. The people who they were pandering to don’t drink Bud Light. People who sit in their trucks and make angry videos do. There is no overlap between the two groups.
 
I believe the illustration points to the specious nature to the concept of "free market" as parroted by Americans, as well as the myth of competition within the American-inflection brand of "capitalism". Both critiques (the former usually more than the latter) are often resisted/rejected/dismissed by [self-described] upper middle class social conservatives, or folks with upper 20% national HHIs or higher. In fairness, this forum tends to be an echo chamber for said demographic, given the inordinate entry price for the hobby these days.

You seem to imply that there is a difference in understanding of money and the economy between two demographics, those who have been successful and those who have been less so. This raises two questions:

1) In the relationship between economic understanding and economic success, which is cause and which is effect?​
2) Between the two different demographics (more successful / less successful), which is more correct in their understanding of monetary matters?​
 
You seem to imply that there is difference in understanding of money and the economy between two demographics, those who have been successful and those who have been less so. This raises two questions:

1) In the relationship between economic understanding and economic success, which is cause and which is effect?​
2) Between the two different demographics (more successful / less successful), which is more correct in their understanding of monetary matters?​

That sounds like a lead-in to saying, "Don't take money advice from broke people."
 
I think that was a demonstration of the power of not knowing their demographic. The people who they were pandering to don’t drink Bud Light. People who sit in their trucks and make angry videos do. There is no overlap between the two groups.

True, Bud Light did not understand their market. But what effect did that market have upon Bud Light? That particular demographic was free to take their business elsewhere and did, because competition exists and there is indeed a free market.
 
I think that was a demonstration of the power of not knowing their demographic. The people who they were pandering to don’t drink Bud Light. People who sit in their trucks and make angry videos do. There is no overlap between the two groups.
I'm sure there is some. If you include people who sit in their non-pickup truck vehicles and make angry videos, the Venn diagram gets a lot more overlap.
 
Large companies have economies of scale, which means lower costs. Lower costs mean they can sell their products at lower prices. Monopolistic competition and natural monopolies are a result of free market competition not a lack thereof.
 
True, Bud Light did not understand their market. But what effect did that market have upon Bud Light? That particular demographic was free to take their business elsewhere and did, because competition exists and there is indeed a free market.

Yes, you get to choose between 5 brands of beer.
5818255B-8E29-4E3C-8B5E-273E98FFD53B.jpeg
 
Yes, you get to choose between 5 brands of beer.
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Funny. Not one of the beers I've had in the last 5 years is on that chart. Guess there's more choices than it wants you to believe. Do those guys sell a lot of beer? Absolutely. But there are more choices outside that list than inside.
 
Yes, you get to choose between 5 brands of beer.
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And my favorites, Fat Tire and Shiner Bock, don't seem to be on the chart. And even ignoring small and micro breweries, there is still competition among the five conglomerates you showed.

Whatever point you're trying to make isn't being made.
 
Yes, you get to choose between 5 brands of beer.

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It it should not surprise anyone that mass market beer almost by definition means there are only a handful of companies who own them, because each one is massively popular (ergo: many people buy a single brand so there there aren't many of them). The same goes for other products with mass market appeal that consumers choose to buy. No one tells you to buy mass market beers, you choose to buy them.

And beer is one of the worst examples to pick. There's hundreds (if not thousands) of breweries in the United States that make delicious beers that you can buy at many, many places for reasonable prices. If you google your area you'll almost certainly find a dozen breweries in as many miles that would love to sell you a pint. If you go and buy AB Inbev or Constellation brands products, that's on you.
 
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