Power configuration settings in the pattern

When I was doing primary training, I used getting the student on the same final each time to help learn the flare. If they came in steep one time, shallow the next, fast one, slow the next, it was harder for them to get the flare right.

Once they got that, then we would vary the pattern to see and experience the differences.
 
17" MAP, full rich, full increase on the prop...gear down....10deg flaps.....bout 100 mph. ATITPPA.... ;)
 
I don't understand your response.
I pretty much disagree with anybody who says that a small piston aircraft like a Cessna 172 or Piper 180 should be flown like a jet so you can get used to how a jet operates.
I would agree that you don’t understand my response, because you quoted it to disagree with something I didn’t say.
 
A few of the airports I operate to/from have non-standard TPA. My instructor wants me to get more into flying by the numbers and has insisted that I roll-out on final "300 and 1". I've had to play with my descent rate.

The glide ratio for a 172 is about 10:1.

So 300ft up and 1 mile out means you’re dead if your engine quits (depending on terrain). To me that seems like a very risky place to be.
 
So 300ft up and 1 mile out means you’re dead if your engine quits (depending on terrain). To me that seems like a very risky place to be.
If that’s a strong consideration, you should probably rethink the airport and/or the junk you’re flying.
 
For PPL or an instrument rating, can anyone find me some original source material with this 300 and 1 info in it?
Is it in the FARAIM?
How about the ACS?
Any other FAA publications?
 
For PPL or an instrument rating, can anyone find me some original source material with this 300 and 1 info in it?
Is it in the FARAIM?
How about the ACS?
Any other FAA publications?
Look in the parts about glide slopes and glide path indicators.
 
Look in the parts about glide slopes and glide path indicators.

where? I can’t find it in source materials or test materials
24744C65-1C63-4931-9F39-A1B6C9F40005.jpeg

300 and 1 is not a test performance standard
 
where? I can’t find it in source materials or test materials
View attachment 116305

300 and 1 is not a test performance standard
Straight out of the instrument ACS…(you have to actually open it, though.)
Maintain a stabilized final approach from the Final Approach Fix (FAF) to DA/DH allowing no more than 3⁄4-scale deflection of either the vertical or lateral guidance indications
 
How about 3 degrees?

but that is not the question, or better yet, not what the OPs instructor is focusing him on.

OP, if I were you, do the following:
1 if working for a license or rating do what is required to get the signature.
2. Know the material better than instructor
3. Focus on test standards, buy and read the acs for the goal
4. If instructor critiques in a manner unfairly, stick up for yourself with test standards as the back up

when I had an instructor seeing things differently than myself, I used cloud ahoy to debrief specifics and get an objective grade on flight portions.

I think your instructor is making things too complicated…
 
but that is not the question, or better yet, not what the OPs instructor is focusing him on.
But it IS what YOU asked about.
OP, if I were you, do the following:
1 if working for a license or rating do what is required to get the signature.
2. Know the material better than instructor
3. Focus on test standards, buy and read the acs for the goal
4. If instructor critiques in a manner unfairly, stick up for yourself with test standards as the back up

when I had an instructor seeing things differently than myself, I used cloud ahoy to debrief specifics and get an objective grade on flight portions.

I think your instructor is making things too complicated…
Or, realize that the ACS is a testing standard, not a training standard, and treat it as such.
 
Straight out of the instrument ACS…(you have to actually open it, though.)

Sorry, that says nothing about 300 and 1
If vfr, fly stabilized using available light systems. Runway should be the focus, not some untested standard in space a mile away.
If ifr, guidance per ils or gps, again not any 300 and 1
 
Sorry, that says nothing about 300 and 1
If vfr, fly stabilized using available light systems. Runway should be the focus, not some untested standard in space a mile away.
If ifr, guidance per ils or gps, again not any 300 and 1
How do you establish yourself on a light system or glide slope/glidepath if you have no idea where it’s going to be when you turn final?
 
But it IS what YOU asked about.

Or, realize that the ACS is a testing standard, not a training standard, and treat it as such.

no, I disputed the validity and said 300 and 1 was useless
 
How do you establish yourself on a light system or glide slope/glidepath if you have no idea where it’s going to be when you turn final?

I don’t turn final if I don’t know where I am.
 
Man, this is a great way to make flying not fun. I figure out two power settings. One to hold altitude at pattern speed and one for a 400 ft / min descent. Minor adjustments from one of those two get you where you need to be.
 
Man, this is a great way to make flying not fun. I figure out two power settings. One to hold altitude at pattern speed and one for a 400 ft / min descent. Minor adjustments from one of those two get you where you need to be.
But 400 ft/minute would be really close to 300 ft/mile, and therefore useless. :rolleyes:
 
OP was talking about flying the pattern. Why is his instructor wanting him on a 1 mile final in a 172 or similar?
I don’t know what was on the mind of this CFI wanting to fly that pattern, but the sight picture to the TDZ on an ILS at that point would be the same for a 172 or a 737, adjusting for the seating positional difference in both aircraft.
 
but that is not the question, or better yet, not what the OPs instructor is focusing him on.

OP, if I were you, do the following:
1 if working for a license or rating do what is required to get the signature.
2. Know the material better than instructor
3. Focus on test standards, buy and read the acs for the goal
4. If instructor critiques in a manner unfairly, stick up for yourself with test standards as the back up

when I had an instructor seeing things differently than myself, I used cloud ahoy to debrief specifics and get an objective grade on flight portions.

I think your instructor is making things too complicated…
No, that's called being argumentative.
 
No, that's called being argumentative.

Not when you're right.

Had that experience with 2 different CFIs. One said I couldn't power off 180 the Arrow from where we were at. Said we'd come up short. I disagreed. Had 300' of runway behind us when I touched down. He didn't say anything after that. The other said you can't use flaps to slip and lose altitude on a check ride. I disagreed. DPE reamed him a new one for that nonsense.

(I had more hours than either of them at the time)

Grow a set and stand up for yourself already. CFI's aren't Jesus, and they don't preach the gospel. I tell this to all my students.
 
No, that's called being argumentative.

In my case, as an example, a CFII tried to have me fly a different path than the two bar VASI as he judged the plane to be too low (or was it too high?). But the colors of the lights were correct and doing what the instructor wanted would have not been flying to checkride standards.

Another time, CFII said I was more than 1/2 scale deflection for a glide path and that I was not to checkride standard. But he was referencing commercial standards, not standards for the ride I was seeking.

This is the same CFII that did not have a copy of the ACS.

On a circle to land, CFII really pushed for a low altitude high degree of bank low speed turn I was not comfortable with in order to "impress the DPE".

For older and very experienced instructors I expect this kind of thing happens a lot. Priceless wisdom, great gems and insight. They can really chew up less experienced pilots. In my career, there was a saying and at times it was demonstrated, that "nurses eat their young". Same can be true in aviation


Earlier, there were things I was familiar with that a younger newer CFII had not heard of and was not familiar with. So, a 250-300 hr instructor, really has not seen much. Perhaps they got the ticket with Shephard Air and a known DPE yet have not learned how to make wind corrections flying a hold. Or maybe there mind is so full of getting ME/MEI while the student is obsessed with the current rating.

So yes, arguing serves a purpose when trying to achieve a goal. But it is done politely, with resources such as the FAR/AIM, ACS, or satisfactory online resources.
 
OP was talking about flying the pattern. Why is his instructor wanting him on a 1 mile final in a 172 or similar?

Exactly. I’m still baffled as to why OP posted this in the ‘Cleared for the Approach’ sub forum.

Is he asking about power settings for a VFR traffic pattern and his instructor wants him at 300 and 1 turning onto final (which is stupid and has nothing to do with instrument flying)?

Because that’s how the original post seems to read.
 
Exactly. I’m still baffled as to why OP posted this in the ‘Cleared for the Approach’ sub forum.

Is he asking about power settings for a VFR traffic pattern and his instructor wants him at 300 and 1 turning onto final (which is stupid and has nothing to do with instrument flying)?

Because that’s how the original post seems to read.
It appears that the OP’s instructor wants him to fly with more precision, which requires knowledge beyond the minimum standard. It also appears that the OP, like many pilots, is offended by the thought that anything beyond minimum standard has any value. Since knowing what “Cleared for the Approach” means is beyond the minimum standard for a VFR pilot, here we are.
 
It appears that the OP’s instructor wants him to fly with more precision, which requires knowledge beyond the minimum standard. It also appears that the OP, like many pilots, is offended by the thought that anything beyond minimum standard has any value. Since knowing what “Cleared for the Approach” means is beyond the minimum standard for a VFR pilot, here we are.
I didn't realize that flying with more precision required flying one mile finals in VFR patterns.
 
I didn't realize that flying with more precision required flying one mile finals in VFR patterns.
Flying with more precision means placing yourself in the same chunk of sky consistently. The instructor appears to have picked that one. For all we know, he decided to pick the average for what the OP was doing.
 
I disagree with that being a defintion/premise of precision flying.

Yeah, I have to agree with that. Precision flying is about configuring the airplane to deliver the performance most suited to the requirements of safe flight, whether it's maintaining a glide slope, or a short/soft field TO or landing, or a climbing or descending 500 fpm turn, or placing the aircraft in a cornfield. Know the numbers for power and pitch that equal performance required, and how to control the airplane accordingly.

Or as my CFI, may he rest in peace, said " When you gotta do what you gotta do, it helps if you know how to do it". Better teacher than wordsmith.
 
Yeah, I have to agree with that. Precision flying is about configuring the airplane to deliver the performance most suited to the requirements of safe flight, whether it's maintaining a glide slope, or a short/soft field TO or landing, or a climbing or descending 500 fpm turn, or placing the aircraft in a cornfield. Know the numbers for power and pitch that equal performance required, and how to control the airplane accordingly.

Or as my CFI, may he rest in peace, said " When you gotta do what you gotta do, it helps if you know how to do it". Better teacher than wordsmith.
How do you maintain a glideslope if you can’t consistently put yourself on it? How do you touch down in the proper place on a short field if you can’t consistently place yourself on short final to allow that touchdown?
 
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