Person jumps from aircraft landing at RDU

Remember he was relatively inexperienced and 23 years old.
A 23 year old friend decided that he could walk on the balcony railing on the tenth floor. He survived but it never made sense to me.

you can’t reach out either because it might be a deadly distraction, also good luck catching a 200 lb man.

nothing bad happened but I still remember decades later; can’t imagine what the pilot is going through
 
Tweet from a WRAL reporter

BREAKING: Pilot who made emergency landing
@RDUAirport
on Friday told air traffic control his co-pilot "just jumped out" of plane mid-air. FAA employee told 911, "I am sure the pilot is going to be shaken up...He literally just said, ‘my pilot just jumped out.'"
@WRAL
 
You must live in a pretty tame world if either of those strikes you as a wild theory. Suicides and homicides happen every day.
they are wild because they are speculative and completely unsubstantiated by known facts

i don't see the point in speculating so publicly and so negatively about this young man and his copilot when we have no clue what happened
 
they are wild because they are speculative and completely unsubstantiated by known facts
Anything we know is reported by various news media. Therefore there are absolutely no known facts, including whether or not anything happened.
 
they are wild because they are speculative and completely unsubstantiated by known facts

i don't see the point in speculating so publicly and so negatively about this young man and his copilot when we have no clue what happened

so what? it's a public forum and I don't think any of it is negative. it's always going to be speculation until the cause is known, and even then sometimes it's speculation.
 
they are wild because they are speculative and completely unsubstantiated by known facts

Speculation is all part of the Crash Talk forum. The comments on this one are a little wilder than most, because the scenario is wilder than most accidents. This isn't your typical ran out of gas, VFR into IMC, or buzz job gone wrong. People don't just usually fall out of airplanes.
 
Anything we know is reported by various news media. Therefore there are absolutely no known facts, including whether or not anything happened.
yes, that is my point
so what? it's a public forum and I don't think any of it is negative. it's always going to be speculation until the cause is known, and even then sometimes it's speculation.
you don't think saying he killed himself or that the copilot murdered him is negative?
Speculation is all part of the Crash Talk forum. The comments on this one are a little wilder than most, because the scenario is wilder than most accidents. This isn't your typical ran out of gas, VFR into IMC, or buzz job gone wrong. People don't just usually fall out of airplanes.
it is a bizarre scenario no matter how tame the actual reason that he fell from the airplane. what spurred me into even commenting was the comment i saw about how basically the surviving pilot was the one flying so he probably told the victim pilot to go look at the gear and then made an abrupt movement to launch him out of the plane in order to get rid of the only witness who could say who damaged it

like....come on guys. there's speculation in the crash forum and there is fan fiction
 
they are wild because they are speculative and completely unsubstantiated by known facts

i don't see the point in speculating so publicly and so negatively about this young man and his copilot when we have no clue what happened
Setting aside aliens and other, actually wild, theories, the decedent either fell, jumped, or was pushed. I don't have the data on all flights that unintentionally land with fewer people than they took off with to know what's statistically more likely, but I'll bet the sample size is too small to really draw any conclusions.
 
..you don't think saying he killed himself or that the copilot murdered him is negative?..

negative? no, I don't. seems like you categorize anything someone says that's different from what you think as being negative. if you don't like the speculation, leave the thread. pretty simple.
 
So you’re suggesting that we eliminate the mishaps board to eliminate speculation?
ah, yes straight to the limit. no. i'm saying that the only thing we care about in this accident is why the pilot fell out. as far as why that is, we have zero information. so we can be "responsible" in discussing things.
Who here said either of those things?

well the following...........

I can envision a scenario where the copilot has some personal issues or ‘history’ and after botching the landing that damaged the plane, figures he’s fired and decides to end it. Seems more plausible than publicity stunt.

I’m hearing it was a suicide after the hard landing incident. Unconfirmed but as you say… plausible.

Whole lot of speculation. For all we know the PIC gave him a shove. We only get one side of the story.

Unfortunately a lot of young people these days seem to believe that. One bad grade, one bad write-up, one bad review, and they think the world is ending.

Reading the details that are leaking out, I've changed my thinking that this was an accident, and instead was indeed an intentional act.

Walking towards the rear door and a sudden forward push on the yoke and a stomp on one rudder pedal could have done it.

But we will never know until we hear the pilots story.

And I can't imagine how the pilot is feeling now.

Maybe the perfect crime. No fingerprints. But what possible motive?

Not saying this is what happened, but you want a possible motive: maybe the co-pilot was the only other person who knew the pilot broke the aircraft.
 
ah, yes straight to the limit. no. i'm saying that the only thing we care about in this accident is why the pilot fell out. as far as why that is, we have zero information.
We have several bits of information, including a news report that he jumped.
According to a local television station, the pilot told authorities that the co-pilot jumped from the airplane before landing, aiming for a lake as they flew over.
https://www.flyingmag.com/co-pilots-departure-of-aircraft-in-mid-flight-baffles-authorities/
 
ah, yes straight to the limit. no. i'm saying that the only thing we care about in this accident is why the pilot fell out. as far as why that is, we have zero information. so we can be "responsible" in discussing things.


well the following...........

Absolutely none of those quotes are ’negative’. Pretty much every one says “I’m just speculating” or “we don’t know the facts” or “based on what little information we know”. But apparently that offends you. And seemingly you alone.
 
hey guys i'm all for talking about accidents and stuff but just as an observer here i don't think it's fair to go deep into the mind of either of these pilots and say things like "he was so upset about the bad landing he offed himself" or that the pilot flying intentionally threw him out of the airplane and "let's discuss his motive." that's a lot different then in a typical accident where we use our personal experiences to try and figure out what pressures may have been on a pilot to launch into IMC or something, to use a more "typical" example

i just think that's very different than saying that his jump "could have been intentional" or "maybe there was foul play" which is absolutely possible. that distinction seems rather significant to me and clearly not to many of you, for which i will just have to agree to disagree
 
hey guys i'm all for talking about accidents and stuff but just as an observer here i don't think it's fair to go deep into the mind of either of these pilots and say things like "he was so upset about the bad landing he offed himself" or that the pilot flying intentionally threw him out of the airplane and "let's discuss his motive." that's a lot different then in a typical accident where we use our personal experiences to try and figure out what pressures may have been on a pilot to launch into IMC or something, to use a more "typical" example

i just think that's very different than saying that his jump "could have been intentional" or "maybe there was foul play" which is absolutely possible. that distinction seems rather significant to me and clearly not to many of you, for which i will just have to agree to disagree
Thanks for sharing. I’m glad you got that off your chest.
You sure read a lot into posts that is not actually written.
 
hey guys i'm all for talking about accidents and stuff but just as an observer here i don't think it's fair…

You are most likely a decent person that wants a certain, respectable conversation applied on an Internet forum. Unfortunately, that won’t happen as forums in general don’t inspire it. There have been a few off-color, insensitive comments made in this thread, but for the most part it’s speculation banter.

Accident forums are a double edged sword. If you’re too formal and conservative in your thoughts and comments, you my might miss the point and whitewash a total screwup. If you’re imaginative, speculative, and curious, you might end up total missing the human and personal side of tragedy. It’s a balance participants have to practice as they go.
 
Until there’s factual data released, we’ll continue to speculate. That’s what we do on discussion boards.
...and pointing out the BS that is frequently a part of that speculation is part of the fun. But 'that's how we learn'.

Nauga,
who thinks it was sunspots
 
Accident forums are a double edged sword. If you’re too formal and conservative in your thoughts and comments, you my might miss the point and whitewash a total screwup. If you’re imaginative, speculative, and curious, you might end up total missing the human and personal side of tragedy. It’s a balance participants have to practice as they go.
False dichotomy. Either approach with no access to factual information is no more likely to figure out what happened and neither approach assures the 'human and personal side of tragedy' will be accommodated. Crash speculation in a public forum is playing a guessing game unconstrained by reality with a small percentage of the clues. Some enjoy it, others don't.

Nauga,
bucking the trend
 
:D
False dichotomy. Either approach with no access to factual information is no more likely to figure out what happened and neither approach assures the 'human and personal side of tragedy' will be accommodated. Crash speculation in a public forum is playing a guessing game unconstrained by reality with a small percentage of the clues. Some enjoy it, others don't.

Nauga,
bucking the trend

Speculative banter :D

These threads will never get very far in actually figuring out what happened. The more conservative side of comments does go further in not ****ing on a dead man’s grave, so there’s that. For me, when there is reasonable thoughts expressed, it’s educational. When there is juvenile comments it’s disappointing. Accident forums are never enjoyable to me.
 
The guy that jumped or fell was a commercial pilot and CFI, or at least had the credentials. Barring an intentional act by the flying pilot, the guy committed suicide, whether it was suicide through stupidity or suicide through intention. Surely a commercial pilot would have spent enough time in an airplane to know that you need to have a harness on if you're going to expose yourself to a situation where you could depart the airplane if you encountered any kind of turbulence or unexpected anything. It's one of those situations where the risk of something going wrong exists and the consequences are extremely dire if something does. Appropriate precautions should have been taken. The fact of the matter is that if the guy that fell/jumped had survived, this would go firmly into the "stupid pilot tricks" bag, and no one would have argued. Just because the guy died doesn't mean he should be or is exempt from criticism.
 
Just because the guy died doesn't mean he should be or is exempt from criticism.
To what end, though? If it makes you feel better or you think piling on adds to the discussion so be it, but if anyone reading this still needs to learn it's a bad idea to fall out of an airplane they probably shouldn't be flying one in the first place.

Nauga,
with light out and lugs aligned
 
In this situation, you're right in that it really adds nothing because there's not much to learn from this incident except don't be stupid. As a general observance, there is often a lot you can learn from reading and discussing accidents, even just "pilot runs out of fuel" accidents where the pilot could have landed and got fuel easily, because it helps a person realize that the pull of "getting there" may be so strong sometimes, it's hard to make smart decisions. I think the main reason I read accident threads and reports is because I like to think of everything that could go wrong before it does so I can come up with a good emergency plan before I'm in that situation so I'm more likely to do the right thing if it ever happens to me. And sometimes when critiquing accidents, you come across the fact that the pilot or whoever did something that was stupid or that shouldn't have been done or didn't do something that should have been done, and I don't see a problem with pointing that out.
 
Is it possible that the door came open in flight and um... You know... Bernoulli?

I have stood in open doors and on open ramps of many aircraft in flight, including this type. There is no appreciable suction force. In fact, standard military procedure for parachute door jumps requires the jumpmaster to lean out and inspect the exterior of the aircraft.
Screenshot_20220803-100526.png
 
I'm going to make one of those obtuse internet forum broad statements:

All flights involve returning to Earth, one way or another.

[No fair mentioning orbiting in space.]
 
In this situation, you're right in that it really adds nothing because there's not much to learn from this incident except don't be stupid. As a general observance, there is often a lot you can learn from reading and discussing accidents, even just "pilot runs out of fuel" accidents where the pilot could have landed and got fuel easily, because it helps a person realize that the pull of "getting there" may be so strong sometimes, it's hard to make smart decisions. I think the main reason I read accident threads and reports is because I like to think of everything that could go wrong before it does so I can come up with a good emergency plan before I'm in that situation so I'm more likely to do the right thing if it ever happens to me. And sometimes when critiquing accidents, you come across the fact that the pilot or whoever did something that was stupid or that shouldn't have been done or didn't do something that should have been done, and I don't see a problem with pointing that out.
I don't disagree in principle with anything you've said here; and I also read, discuss, and (try to) learn from accident and incident reports and dockets - what I find laughable is the rush to guess what happened in the absence of facts other than those that are reported in often-questionable media or gleaned by watching a video posted online and couch it in "that's how we learn" rationalization. I think basing 'learning' on questionable analysis is just as likely to result in flawed conclusions as it is accurate ones, but I've long since learned that it's futile to insist people wait for real analysis to 'learn'. As for pointing out stupid, there is an expression called "master of the obvious" that often applies to those that do so. It can be instructional, or it can be dogpiling. One is beneficial, if done well; the other is pointless.

Nauga,
who won't stop the carnival
 
To what end, though? If it makes you feel better or you think piling on adds to the discussion so be it, but if anyone reading this still needs to learn it's a bad idea to fall out of an airplane they probably shouldn't be flying one in the first place.

Nauga,
with light out and lugs aligned

yes, spot on.
 
Everybody is focused on the dude that exited the aircraft. I’m more interested in how the right MLG turned into a dropped object.

ETA: I’m also curious when the remaining pilot closed or secured whatever door/ramp was ajar.
 
Last edited:
The guy that jumped or fell was a commercial pilot and CFI, or at least had the credentials. Barring an intentional act by the flying pilot, the guy committed suicide, whether it was suicide through stupidity or suicide through intention. Surely a commercial pilot would have spent enough time in an airplane to know that you need to have a harness on if you're going to expose yourself to a situation where you could depart the airplane if you encountered any kind of turbulence or unexpected anything. It's one of those situations where the risk of something going wrong exists and the consequences are extremely dire if something does. Appropriate precautions should have been taken. The fact of the matter is that if the guy that fell/jumped had survived, this would go firmly into the "stupid pilot tricks" bag, and no one would have argued. Just because the guy died doesn't mean he should be or is exempt from criticism.

It had to have been an intentional act by the copilot to depart the aircraft. However, the part of this that makes the least sense is the reporting that the deceased jumped toward a lake and that the original search efforts were directed there. The original lake in question is about a mile and a half further along the flight path than where the copilot was found and it’s barely 800’ long, more of a small pond, really. I don’t think you could hit that from 2000+ AGL if you tried 50 times.

The reporting on whatever cockpit communication occurred has been abysmal, but the intent of the copilot to jump into a lake has been reported, presumably by the pilot.

That’s the part that’s bothering me most - there was seemingly some sort of conversation about this. If this is the case, an intentional departure, the guy who jumped was distraught either way - like you said, intentional or negligent suicide.

The lake-escape story would have to be along the lines of: “we’re going to crash and burn, I’m out,” unclips harness “what are you doing?” “I’m going to go jump in that lake.” Okay, there would have to be a whole lot more to that discussion. A plane that is still fully capable of controlled flight could ostensibly get real low and slow over Lake Wheeler, only 3 or 4 miles further along (or close to) the flight path before the guy bailed. Why jump where he did? The outcome may have been the same, but at least a person could hit the target.

But the lake-suicide story only holds water if the guy stated something like “I can’t believe I screwed up so badly, my career is over,” unclips harness, “what are you doing?” “I’m going to go jump in that lake.”

What lake?”

Or did the pilot just presume he was aiming for that tiny little pond? That’s one heck of a presumption.

Either scenario paints the picture of a very (perhaps temporarily) emotionally unstable person. But why the lake bit? Why not just silently unclip, run to the back, drop the ramp and depart? Trying to hit that lake? How in the world could have that been presumed without specific communication?

At this point, I don’t think it’s possible he just fell out while inspecting the gear. If it the lake thing hadn’t been reported, maybe it would be plausible, but that one little detail speaks to an intent to depart the aircraft toward a specific, but entirely improbable little spot.

Of course, the whole lake bit simply could just be an artifact of absolutely awful reporting - but that’s where they initially searched. What the heck? Just awful. Way too many questions to just let it sit until the final NTSB report comes out in a few years.
 
I have stood in open doors and on open ramps of many aircraft in flight, including this type. There is no appreciable suction force. In fact, standard military procedure for parachute door jumps requires the jumpmaster to lean out and inspect the exterior of the aircraft.
View attachment 109376

Looking at this thought and also hearing that the plane was used for possible jump practice / recertification in an earlier thread, maybe the pilot has seen the jump master lean out of the door and thought he could do that as well. And then maybe there was some turbulence just as he was doing that. Bad judgement combined with bad luck.
 
The guy that jumped or fell was a commercial pilot and CFI, or at least had the credentials. Barring an intentional act by the flying pilot, the guy committed suicide, whether it was suicide through stupidity or suicide through intention. Surely a commercial pilot would have spent enough time in an airplane to know that you need to have a harness on if you're going to expose yourself to a situation where you could depart the airplane if you encountered any kind of turbulence or unexpected anything. It's one of those situations where the risk of something going wrong exists and the consequences are extremely dire if something does. Appropriate precautions should have been taken. The fact of the matter is that if the guy that fell/jumped had survived, this would go firmly into the "stupid pilot tricks" bag, and no one would have argued. Just because the guy died doesn't mean he should be or is exempt from criticism.
Awfully quick to condemn given the complete lack of facts. What if he was wearing a harness and it failed? or going off of this crazy wild murder theory, what if the other pilot unclipped or cut it? To call him stupid without ANY credible information says more about the poster than the intended target...

Mtns2skies,
who sometimes agrees with Nauga.
 
Since we're doing wild speculation...

Perhaps the deceased had a chute and decided jumping was preferable to to riding out the crash. Chute failed or had insufficient time to open or....

More questions than answers at this point. It's a weird one.
 
Back
Top