Goodyear brakes... dump or rehab?

[pfarber]

These things seem to be hated, but its what I have. Replace or is there anything I can do to make them usefull for a few more years.

 

[Magman]

This was a question I pondered some years ago. Having one jam and take me off the runway made my mind up.

You haven’t stated the issue and type aircraft?

 

[Rgbeard]

For those of us unfamiliar - is there something to reference? I'd like to learn a little.

 

[Dan Thomas]

They're awful. Had them on the Jodel. Replaced them with used McCauley wheels and brakes, which are very similar to Clevelands.

The brake pucks in the Goodyear had to be closely monitored. If they got a little too thin they'd come out of the shallow recess they sit in, and jam the wheel solid. Almost guarantees lots of damage. Like Magman pointed out.

Then there's the cost of parts, like the little brake disc retainer clip, of which you need three or four per wheel:



From Univair.

Now, that's the disc-type Goodyear brake. The bladder brakes, commonly found on old Cubs, were worse. Weak, too. This stuff is for the old-airplane restorers who insist on complete authenticity. They're welcome to it.

 

[wanttaja]

I had Goodyears for the first ~14 years of ownership, and I cursed them every year. Real PITA to remove and replace. Had to carry little wood wedges in the airplane in case I ever needed to fix a flat at an away-from-home airport.

Styles vary, but mine had this gear-tooth arrangement around the periphery. Three metal clips had to be lifted away simultaneously to allow the wheel to slide off. BEFORE doing that, though, mark which tooth matched between the gear and the drum built into the wheel...because mine never wanted to go on except exactly how they came off.

Grrr. As Dan says, the pads can come loose and jam the wheel. Happened to me, fortunately I was just taxiing.

As you mention, pads are hellaciously expensive. I made my own relatively easily; good option for an experimental, and might be classified as "Owner-manufactured parts" for a certified airplane. Here's my story on that:

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/stories/brake.HTM

Found a crack in the "drum" a few years later, and replaced them with Grove wheels and brakes. Been very happy with them, but I see the price has doubled since then.

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/wheels.html

I'll admit ONE advantage of Goodyear wheels/brakes: You can remove the wheels without having to unbolt or otherwise manipulate the caliper.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[mondtster]

There are a few different designs of Goodyears. Some don’t bother me as much as others, but they all take a mechanic that actually understands how they work to service them and make sure they’re safe. Parts are challenging to find but I’ve always been able to find what I need.

If there is a Cleveland conversion, I’d be saving money with the intent to switch over sooner rather than later.

 

[Rgbeard]

Holy shoot - that looks like a nightmare. And I own Jaguars.

 

[pfarber]

They're awful. Had them on the Jodel. Replaced them with used McCauley wheels and brakes, which are very similar to Clevelands.

The brake pucks in the Goodyear had to be closely monitored. If they got a little too thin they'd come out of the shallow recess they sit in, and jam the wheel solid. Almost guarantees lots of damage. Like Magman pointed out.

Then there's the cost of parts, like the little brake disc retainer clip, of which you need three or four per wheel:

View attachment 105462

From Univair.

Now, that's the disc-type Goodyear brake. The bladder brakes, commonly found on old Cubs, were worse. Weak, too. This stuff is for the old-airplane restorers who insist on complete authenticity. They're welcome to it.

Mine are like the ones in the photo... riveted on. From the service manuals I have the riveted on clips seem to be the upgrade/fix for the clips.



The pad wear is 90% on the fixed pad, 10% of the piston side. Not sure why, but both calipers have the wear pattern. The fixed pad is just glued on, so I think swapping the pads would be a good way to ensure that it doesn't pop out, unless I can find replacements. I really only need two (the fixed side) so $120ish for pads isn't that much in the airplane world.

My main issue is the shop heads on the rivets holding the clips on are laughably bad... and I want to redo them but have zero information on the rivets. I do have new clips.... but no rivets.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Mine are like the ones in the photo... riveted on. From the service manuals I have the riveted on clips seem to be the upgrade/fix for the clips.



The pad wear is 90% on the fixed pad, 10% of the piston side. Not sure why, but both calipers have the wear pattern. The fixed pad is just glued on, so I think swapping the pads would be a good way to ensure that it doesn't pop out, unless I can find replacements. I really only need two (the fixed side) so $120ish for pads isn't that much in the airplane world.

My main issue is the shop heads on the rivets holding the clips on are laughably bad... and I want to redo them but have zero information on the rivets. I do have new clips.... but no rivets.

The type that used the spring clips I posted had a few big spline blocks in the wheel, not the small many-splined setup you have. Its disc was about half the thickness of yours and was intended for lighter aircraft.

 

[Magman]

Dan referred to expander tube bladder type brakes.

With 3 of us TRYING to push a Vagabond into the hangar it was clear there was a
problem. “ Further investigation revealed” the brakes were the culprit. Never, ever say “ Add brake fluid to the reservoir”. It had been said however; so Brake Fluid NOT 5606, was added. All “ rubber” in the system was shot. Owner then purchased Dual Piston Cleveland. Getting the approval was another story.

 

[mondtster]

Dan referred to expander tube bladder type brakes.

With 3 of us TRYING to push a Vagabond into the hangar it was clear there was a
problem. “ Further investigation revealed” the brakes were the culprit. Never, ever say “ Add brake fluid to the reservoir”. It had been said however; so Brake Fluid NOT 5606, was added. All “ rubber” in the system was shot. Owner then purchased Dual Piston Cleveland. Getting the approval was another story.

There have been debates over what the correct fluid is for those systems. Some say it is 5606 and some say it is something else. That may have led to the problems you experienced.

I just went through a similar fiasco on a PZL Koliber. (Along with other brake related issues.)

 

[Magman]

The general rule was ; pre-WW2 was vegetable base. Post WW2 is mineral base
(5606).
However; the problem came about when the Owner figured brake fluid is brake fluid.
He got DOT 3.