Young adults and driver’s licenses

Rgbeard

Rgbeard

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rgbeard
This is soooo foreign to me. I went to my local DMV on my 16th birthday. I was literally counting the days.

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/study-licenses-driving

The teenage rite of passage of rushing to the DMV on your birthday to get that plastic card that represents freedom has changed dramatically over the last 30 years. Data collected from the Federal Highway Administration and analyzed by Green Car Congress showed that in 2018 approximately 61% of 18-year-olds in the U.S. had a driver’s license, down from 80% percent in 1983. The number of 16-year-olds with licenses decreased from 46% to 25% in the same period.
 
Can you blame them though? Insurance rates are ridiculous, most states have some kind of formal training and "phased licensing" system, and they meet with their friends online and in other ways anyway. And there are other ways to get around, like Uber, that for some uses may be far cheaper than owning and maintaining and insuring a car.

Not bothering to get a license at 16 may just be a reasonable practical decision these days.
 
Radar Contact said:
He’s like mini-me…but smarter. :)
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That's kinda setting the bar low though. :D

I think the no drivers license (not a certificate!) thing has to do with helicopter parents who want to know everything, be around their kids nonstop, and drive their kids around until they are married off. I mean, unless you're trying to make points with that 10 you met last week, there's no reason to get one if mom is going to drive you everywhere.
 
My now 21-year-old daughter was chomping at the bit. But I agree I’ve noticed that the numbers are down. I live in a rural area which makes a drivers license a little more necessary though.
 
A big factor is where you live. In some places, a car or other vehicle is essential. In others, it's more of an unnecessary expense and a PITA. I was surprised how many young people in the city don't have cars (don't know their license status). Although I know one guy who is probably about 30 who just told me he is practicing in his friend's car for the test. I know another woman, maybe 40-50, who says she would not make a good driver because she would be too nervous.
 
I took my test at 8:30 on my 16th birthday (in 85) and don't recall any of my friends not getting a license within a few days of their birthdays. My daughter also had hers by noon on her 16th birthday a few years back - however, a noticeably larger number of her friends had no interest in getting theirs for several years.
 
My daughter had us take her to the DMV on her 15th birthday to take the test and get her permit. We then made her drive us pretty much everywhere, all the time. "It's raining hard", tough, you're driving. "There's a lot of traffic", tough, you're driving. "I'm really tired", tough, you're driving.

She had me take her to the DMV on her 16th birthday, she passed her drivers test, and she put 12,000mi on the car in the last two years. She has no fear to drive anywhere, and that is a good thing!
 
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I noticed that when my own kids were getting their licenses and some of their peers really had little interest. There seems to be a lack of competitiveness among that age group, maybe it's getting worse? It seems like there really wasn't much of a desire to "compete" to get that license when it was so easy just to ride along with your buddies or get parents to shuttle you around.
 
I had a cousin only 5 years younger than me who didn't get his license until he was 17. He just didn't have much interest in it and was a home body, even when living in a large town/small city in Oklahoma. He also managed to drive my grandfather's car into the back wall of a strip mall business (happened to by his mom's business). Very book-smart kid (has a Master's in some variant of Astrophysics) but just wasn't too adept at some of the more useful life skills at that point. I was 2nd in line at the DMV to take my driver's test on my 16th birthday, my mother took me up there and allowed me to be late to school. My car (88' 300ZX) was in the shop for a reason I can't recall, so I took the test in her '99 Grand Prix GXP which was a barge compared to my little sports car. I wasn't willing to wait until my car was available, especially since I had been driving all sorts of stuff for many years so it wasn't a menacing problem.

While we had instant messenger and dial-up AOL internet when I was 16, when you wanted to hang with friends you either rode your bike or had a parent drive you over to their house. Chatting online wasn't something most people did with friends. I'm sure having video chats and whatnot are considered an acceptable substitute for in-person interaction these days, but technology wasn't at that point back in the late-90's. On the flip side, my friends in I probably would have gotten in much less trouble chatting via FB rather than finding interesting ways to occupy our time in-person, lol.
 
Bill said:
My daughter had us take her to the DMV on her 15th birthday to take the test and get her permit. We then made her drive us pretty much everywhere, all the time. "It's raining hard", tough, you're driving. "There's a lot of traffic", tough, you're driving. "I'm really tired", tough, you're driving.

She had me take her to the DMV on her 16th birthday, she passed her drivers test, and she put 12,000mi on the car in the last two years. She has no fear to drive anywhere, and that is a good thing!
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That’s exactly what we did with our two girls only the age for learner’s permit was 14. My husband also made them change tires and do basic engine maintenance.

I read somewhere that delaying getting licensed pushes your accident rate to the older age, in other words it’s not youth that makes you unsafe, it’s lack of experience. Although immaturity may also play a role. I wonder how insurance accounts for this? Are premiums as high if you get licensed at 21 vs at 16?
 
And we’re probably seeing the result in people’s ability to drive, as more and more haven’t had the mentorship.
 
Rushie said:
That’s exactly what we did with our two girls only the age for learner’s permit was 14. My husband also made them change tires and do basic engine maintenance.

I read somewhere that delaying getting licensed pushes your accident rate to the older age, in other words it’s not youth that makes you unsafe, it’s lack of experience. Although immaturity may also play a role. I wonder how insurance accounts for this? Are premiums as high if you get licensed at 21 vs at 16?
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Insurance was eye watering at first, but after two years no tickets/no accidents, insurance has dropped to semi-reasonable.
 
Rushie said:
Are premiums as high if you get licensed at 21 vs at 16?
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My step-daughter didn’t get her license until age 18, as her mom couldn’t afford the premium increase of a 16-year-old driver, so I assume there’s a difference.
 
Bill said:
Insurance was eye watering at first, but after two years no tickets/no accidents, insurance has dropped to semi-reasonable.
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MauleSkinner said:
My step-daughter didn’t get her license until age 18, as her mom couldn’t afford the premium increase of a 16-year-old driver, so I assume there’s a difference.
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Exactly what we noted, a big stepdown at age 18.
 
Bill said:
Exactly what we noted, a big stepdown at age 18.
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But there is a difference between an 18 year old that’s been driving on a learners permit for 3 years and a 16 year old for 1 year.
 
Rushie said:
But there is a difference between an 18 year old that’s been driving on a learners permit for 3 years and a 16 year old for 1 year.
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Good grief, who knows! I sometimes think insurance pricing is even more convoluted than airline seat pricing.
 
Rushie said:
But there is a difference between an 18 year old that’s been driving on a learners permit for 3 years and a 16 year old for 1 year.
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Assuming the 18yr old has had a learner's permit that whole time. I'd wager that most of those who wait until they're 18 to get a driver's license haven't spent any more time behind the wheel than the 16 year old.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Are you asking about the driver or the premium?
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The premium.

SoonerAviator said:
Assuming the 18yr old has had a learner's permit that whole time. I'd wager that most of those who wait until they're 18 to get a driver's license haven't spent any more time behind the wheel than the 16 year old.
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That’s probably true. But in the case mentioned if you don’t let them get it at 16 because you don’t want to pay the premium I’m assuming the kid had already been driving and would continue to drive under the permit. But I don’t recall our auto insurance company asking how long they’d been driving with a permit, just how old they were so they probably don’t consider that.
 
Bill said:
Insurance was eye watering at first, but after two years no tickets/no accidents, insurance has dropped to semi-reasonable.
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Yeah, my insurance as a 16yr old male driver was quite high. Not sure how it compares with hers, but I’ve heard the insurance premiums for female drivers of the same age bracket are somewhat lower. I guess they don’t think the girls will be as careless as the newly minted male drivers are. :p

With no tickets or accidents, it’s gradually come down over the years and it’s *supposed to* inch down a tad bit more, once I turn 25 next month and I’ll finally be able to rent a car - woo!
 
Bill said:
Exactly what we noted, a big stepdown at age 18.
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Regardless, it’s pretty cool when they get their license and start driving their own selves to Tae Kwon Do class, band practice and even school if they got a parking permit. Very liberating for the parents but I missed the forced bonding time in the car.

Fortunately when it came to friends, they tended to all hang out at our house so we didn’t have much worry about them out socializing who knows where getting into trouble.
 
I didn't get mine on my 16th birthday. I spent that summer touring Europe playing music. I got mine mine at 16 years and 7 months. :)

Not sure my daughter is going to get hers at a normal pace. I bet my son will.
 
I wouldn’t say I got a lot of mentoring, but my mom wanted me driving ASAP so she wouldn’t need to play chauffeur. I had no problem with that and got my permit and license as soon as I could. Seems like others in my peer group did as well.
 
Rushie said:
Regardless, it’s pretty cool when they get their license and start driving their own selves to Tae Kwon Do class, band practice and even school if they got a parking permit. Very liberating for the parents but I missed the forced bonding time in the car.

Fortunately when it came to friends, they tended to all hang out at our house so we didn’t have much worry about them out socializing who knows where getting into trouble.
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Sounds about like my parents with me.
 
The training situation seems to be different today, and that may be a factor, too.

I got my learner's permit at 15. My parents wouldn't let me take my license test until I had completed Driver's Ed at school (insurance reasons, I suppose), and I seem to recall there being something in the law back then that only allowed 16-year-olds to be licensed if they'd completed Driver's Ed. Anyway, I couldn't fit Driver's Ed into my school schedule until the summer I turned 17. After the class, I got the first available testing appointment and got my license.

At the time, my high school had a driving range, a fleet of cars, and a classroom full of driving simulators. Once we had completed all the simulator and range work, we went out onto the streets with an instructor. Overall, it was a pretty solid course.

Fast forward 40 years, though, and it's a different story. When Son of Half Fast was ready to learn to drive, we also required him to take Driver's Ed, which got us an insurance discount. However, his high school Driver's Ed class was an automated on-line class. (???!!!) No cars, no simulators, no driving instructors. Just videos and lessons and quizzes on the computer. It was left to me to put him behind the wheel of an actual car.

So, I found an area where a new neighborhood was to be built. The roads and traffic signs had been put in, but there were no houses or people yet. I schooled him there until he had reasonable car control, and then Mrs. Half Fast joined us in another car to give him a little traffic experience, learn what following distance should look like, etc. Finally we got him onto the roads. Soon he had his license and was driving himself to school, to work, etc.

But I don't know how many parents have the time or willingness to teach driving, and I worry about how poor a job they would do even if they took the time.
 
I lived in the UP from age 10 - 13 so I learned how to drive a manual Renault Alliance, and would drive us the back roads to town. When I finally took drivers ed at age 15 it was a cake walk. Driver's Ed teacher didn't like me much from the get go. I said I had driven before, and his comment was "My 3 year old got in the car and put it in reverse, but I don't consider that driving." Challenge accepted. He looked for any little thing he could to mark me down and fail me. The only thing he tagged me for was "accelerating too fast" when a light went from red to green. He was not happy at the end of the session.
 
Half Fast said:
The training situation seems to be different today, and that may be a factor, too.

I got my learner's permit at 15. My parents wouldn't let me take my license test until I had completed Driver's Ed at school (insurance reasons, I suppose), and I seem to recall there being something in the law back then that only allowed 16-year-olds to be licensed if they'd completed Driver's Ed. Anyway, I couldn't fit Driver's Ed into my school schedule until the summer I turned 17. After the class, I got the first available testing appointment and got my license.

At the time, my high school had a driving range, a fleet of cars, and a classroom full of driving simulators. Once we had completed all the simulator and range work, we went out onto the streets with an instructor. Overall, it was a pretty solid course.

Fast forward 40 years, though, and it's a different story. When Son of Half Fast was ready to learn to drive, we also required him to take Driver's Ed, which got us an insurance discount. However, his high school Driver's Ed class was an automated on-line class. (???!!!) No cars, no simulators, no driving instructors. Just videos and lessons and quizzes on the computer. It was left to me to put him behind the wheel of an actual car.

So, I found an area where a new neighborhood was to be built. The roads and traffic signs had been put in, but there were no houses or people yet. I schooled him there until he had reasonable car control, and then Mrs. Half Fast joined us in another car to give him a little traffic experience, learn what following distance should look like, etc. Finally we got him onto the roads. Soon he had his license and was driving himself to school, to work, etc.

But I don't know how many parents have the time or willingness to teach driving, and I worry about how poor a job they would do even if they took the time.
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Back then the fleet of cars had the big triangle on the top that said “Student Driver” so the traffic all knew what to expect. Now you’re taking the kid out with nothing warning other drivers. I don’t know know why they stopped the formal Drivers Ed classes.
 
Half Fast said:
The training situation seems to be different today, and that may be a factor, too.

I got my learner's permit at 15. My parents wouldn't let me take my license test until I had completed Driver's Ed at school (insurance reasons, I suppose), and I seem to recall there being something in the law back then that only allowed 16-year-olds to be licensed if they'd completed Driver's Ed. Anyway, I couldn't fit Driver's Ed into my school schedule until the summer I turned 17. After the class, I got the first available testing appointment and got my license.

At the time, my high school had a driving range, a fleet of cars, and a classroom full of driving simulators. Once we had completed all the simulator and range work, we went out onto the streets with an instructor. Overall, it was a pretty solid course.

Fast forward 40 years, though, and it's a different story. When Son of Half Fast was ready to learn to drive, we also required him to take Driver's Ed, which got us an insurance discount. However, his high school Driver's Ed class was an automated on-line class. (???!!!) No cars, no simulators, no driving instructors. Just videos and lessons and quizzes on the computer. It was left to me to put him behind the wheel of an actual car.

So, I found an area where a new neighborhood was to be built. The roads and traffic signs had been put in, but there were no houses or people yet. I schooled him there until he had reasonable car control, and then Mrs. Half Fast joined us in another car to give him a little traffic experience, learn what following distance should look like, etc. Finally we got him onto the roads. Soon he had his license and was driving himself to school, to work, etc.

But I don't know how many parents have the time or willingness to teach driving, and I worry about how poor a job they would do even if they took the time.
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My first "driver's ed" class was around 12 years old. Dad took me out in his '90 F-150 and stopped on a rural county road next to come corn/soybean fields. Got out, told me to slide over, and we drove for 10-15 miles out in the middle of nowhere. Just a couple of stop signs and some gravel roads. Looking forward to when I can do the same with my daughter/son.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I didn't get mine on my 16th birthday. I spent that summer touring Europe playing music. I got mine mine at 16 years and 7 months. :)

Not sure my daughter is going to get hers at a normal pace. I bet my son will.
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I went to get mine on my 16th birthday but got flustered during the road test when I didn’t get in the turn lane, and the examiner yelled, “Left, I wanted you to turn left here!” So I went ahead and turned left from the straight lane. There weren’t any other cars around, it was safe, and he was yelling at me to turn left. He flunked me because I had “committed a moving violation” during the test. I waited 6 months and went back, got a different examiner and passed.
 
Radar Contact said:
My 18 year old was there on his 16th birthday for his card of freedom. He has never had a ticket or accident. He’s currently in air traffic tech school in Mississippi with the Air Force. He’s like mini-me…but smarter. :)
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Does he have his orders yet to where he's going after tech school?
 
I was driving in the fields at 13, standard transmission no less. 1972, pop had me hauling hay from the field to the barn. At 14 I was already on dirt county roads. I got what was called a hardship license at 15, after taking drivers ed at the public school. It restricted me to driving only to the farm and back home, but I would go feed, then drive to school, then back to feed, then home. By the time I was 16 I had already been over 100mph several times.

I went through the drivers ed class. Really hokie simulators, great movies like, ''Pavement, bloody pavement'', ''The highway runs red'' and other movies made in the early 50s that was supposed to put fear in us. The parking lot was painted up like public streets and we idled around in the land barge cars of the very early 70s practicing stopping at stop signs, learning yield signs, parallel parking and even a red light. After a week in the parking lot, we actually got to drive on the roads. 3 kids with an elderly instructor. We got 20 minutes driving per kid everyday for a week. Then we got our learners permit that allowed us to drive with a licensed driver 21 years or older of age in the front seat until that great day known as our 16th birthday. Except me. I went and took my driving test the following Monday and received my hardship license.

First tricycle, then bicycle, then cars, race cars followed by airplanes. Natural progression.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Does he have his orders yet to where he's going after tech school?
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Not yet. They wait till closer to graduation. They had 2 quit the first week. I think my class graduated with about 40% that started.

If he gets DM I know who will help me keep an eye on him. :)

He’s hoping for the SE but you know how that can go.
 
RyanB said:
Yeah, my insurance as a 16yr old male driver was quite high. Not sure how it compares with hers, but I’ve heard the insurance premiums for female drivers of the same age bracket are somewhat lower. I guess they don’t think the girls will be as careless as the newly minted male drivers are. :p

With no tickets or accidents, it’s gradually come down over the years and it’s *supposed to* inch down a tad bit more, once I turn 25 next month and I’ll finally be able to rent a car - woo!
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I wonder if that's still as true as it used to be. My Dad talks about how the boys used to tend to be the more aggressive drivers but that he has noticed a shift in that over the years to where there are as many or more aggressive women drivers as men. It's anecdotal but my own observations support that as well.
 
Kansas Flyer said:
I wonder if that's still as true as it used to be. My Dad talks about how the boys used to tend to be the more aggressive drivers but that he has noticed a shift in that over the years to where there are as many or more aggressive women drivers as men. It's anecdotal but my own observations support that as well.
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Or looking at their phone more. Anecdotally I see more women looking at their phones in cars than I do guys. Holding and talking on the phone is about the same, but looking at the screen while driving, women have the edge.
 
Radar Contact said:
Not yet. They wait till closer to graduation. They had 2 quit the first week. I think my class graduated with about 40% that started.

If he gets DM I know who will help me keep an eye on him. :)

He’s hoping for the SE but you know how that can go.
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Things are different from when we went through. I started with 25 and graduated with 7. They've made it extremely hard to wash out students at the schoolhouse, rather to let them squeak by and wash out at their base later on. Its a waste of time and money but I wasn't invited to that committee that made that decision. I doubt he'll come here as we're full up with trainees but ya never know. Wherever he's going I'm sure I know someone there or I know someone who knows someone. As you know, ATC is a small community.
 
I got mine as soon as I could.

Nothing unusual except the exam. My Uncle had a Renault Dealership and I finagled a Dauphine to take the test since it was about four feet shorter than the land yachts of the late 50’s. All went well until the parallel parking exercise. The Examiner asked if it was my car and I said no. He got out, moved the cones a helluva lot closer together and said park it. I managed it successfully and passed.

Cheers
 
Rushie said:
Regardless, it’s pretty cool when they get their license and start driving their own selves to…and even school if they got a parking permit.
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Not only did we not need a parking permit for school, you also had a pretty good idea which cars had guns in them if you had to have a shootout. ;)
 
I was driving tractors and trucks before my feet could reach the pedals. Got my learners permit at 14. I think passing Drivers Ed got you your license w/o having to take a driving test.
 
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