Ever have those frustrating days?

vinlearns2fly

Pre-Flight
Joined
May 5, 2021
Messages
36
Display Name

Display name:
Student Pilot
I am 100+ hrs into my PPL training. I know that this is way more than what most people would take but I have taken the approach of wanting to be proficient vs. meeting the basic requirements for training. I have soloed (4 times, so far) and completed several PPL 'missions' including my dual cross country and dual nighttime requirements.

I had a rather frustrating couple of back-to-back days when I struggled with landing. I had several rather less-than-ideal landings, even though conditions were reasonable. I am not the kind of guy who likes to chalk things up to a 'bad day' and usually beat myself up over things like this. Anyone else have these 'bad days'? How do you deal?

I am curious about both the CFI and student perspective.
 
I had several rather less-than-ideal landings, even though conditions were reasonable.

Welcome to the world of humanity. It happens to everyone you've ever and never met that fly airplanes. Don't take it personal just stay with it and it gets better but there are still gonna be "those days" ... just the way it is.

Now without getting into name dropping it is rumored that there are a select few on POA that have never had a bad landing ... they'll let you know who they are! :rolleyes:
 
I am 100+ hrs into my PPL training. I know that this is way more than what most people would take but I have taken the approach of wanting to be proficient vs. meeting the basic requirements for training. I have soloed (4 times, so far) and completed several PPL 'missions' including my dual cross country and dual nighttime requirements.

I had a rather frustrating couple of back-to-back days when I struggled with landing. I had several rather less-than-ideal landings, even though conditions were reasonable. I am not the kind of guy who likes to chalk things up to a 'bad day' and usually beat myself up over things like this. Anyone else have these 'bad days'? How do you deal?

I am curious about both the CFI and student perspective.

I am sure we all go through that ..... and to my surprise it was so bad I was going to quit after 9 hours of dual instruction (helicopter)

No previous flying experience .... but loved helicopters since childhood .... had a library of helicopter related books and manuals .... I knew everything about the machine including advanced technical .

By age 30 I could afford lessons on the Bell 47 G2 helicopter so I enrolled in flight school ..... got top marks in ground school ... got 100% on every mechanical knowledge test .... piece of cake ..... then came actual flight training ..... by hours 3 and 4 I could do all the basics at altitude ... turns , ascend , descend , straight and level ..... but could not hover over one spot .

By hours 6 , 7 , 8 , I still could not hold a stable hover .... I was like a drunk walrus trying to balance on a beach ball .... at the end of hour nine I was ready to quit .... as the CFI and I were walking to the hangar he looked straight ahead and said .... you are ready to quit arent you ... YES I blurted out ..... smart guy , had been reading my body language and saw my frustrations ... he said most students get to that point some time or the other .... because he told me that I quit being so hard on myself.

The most surprising part (to me) was that same instructor got out of the machine after giving me 14.7 hrs of instruction and had me do my first solo pattern circuit ... I was not expecting it .

I credit that insightful CFI with helping me thru those times ..... sometimes a small encouragement can go a long way .... I expect you will be just fine vinlearns2fly .... consider yourself "normal".... best wishes
 
Hi - I have my private and a similar attitude - I want to be proficient and I've learned the only thing that does that for me is actual flying. I'm north of 250 hours and I also struggle sometimes with landings...just laid out a nice belly flop the other day right after a couple of greasers.

I figure maybe when I'm up around 5000 landings, I might get to be really good at them.
 
I think that ups and downs are part of the process for most folks. There are a few folks that learned to fly very young with a gift for it.

My friend and hangar mate grew up with a Dad who had a flight school. He started flying when he was twelve and has flown a LOT ever since. For most of us though, we go through what you’re dealing with.
 
Most of my landings suck but are getting better. Nothing really bad just not like I want. Crosswinds, wind speed, using flaps, partial flaps, no flaps ect there is several different combinations of conditions that come into play when landing. Just takes time to learn speed, flaps, control techniques for each scenario. I’m getting close to having more good ones than bad but I guess that’s why they say your ppl is a license to learn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Time for some tough love.

Hell, I'm a PPL pushing a thousand VFR hours and most of my landings are "rather less-than-ideal landings". If you think you'll ever grease 5 landings in a row, or four, or three, you are likely in for a big disappointment. I greased my first landing in years a couple of weeks ago. And when I say "greased", I mean you truly do not feel the wheels contact the ground.

I have to ask, what scares you about completing your training?
 
It happens.

I was working on my flight instructor certificates and still could not make 2 decent landings in a row.

One day it will ''click'' and landings will become much better.
 
I am 100+ hrs into my PPL training. I know that this is way more than what most people would take but I have taken the approach of wanting to be proficient vs. meeting the basic requirements for training.

Just get the basic requirements down and pass your test. It is going to be a long time before you consider yourself proficient at landing. IMHO landing gets much easier once you get to the point you can use the rudder without thinking about it.

Tim
 
CFI perspective - Perfection is the enemy of competence. Self flagellation is best reserved for the religious types.

So if competence is your goal then the question is how do you define a "good" v. a "bad" landing.

My answer is to ask "was it safe?"

Here is how I evaluate safety (in fact lady friend has gotten pretty good at critiquing me).

1. Main wheels on different sides of the centerline (all aircraft, all the time).
2. Nose wheel higher than mains (tricycle gear).
3. No, or minimal, motion sideways (especially important in conventional gear but important in all airplanes.).
4. Reasonable descent rate on touchdown (glasses falling off your face? back injuries? blown tires? firewall bent? -- Probably too high).

That is it. The rest is frosting.

The most important thing to NOT worry about is bouncing. Bounces don't count. Most airplanes/pilots bounce or skip on landing most of the time.

How to fix things - POWER, usually more - often lots of it, and proper rudder, usually right rudder - often lots of it.

Technique - there are as many techniques as there are pilots. A few things I've noticed.

The most common landing errors are fundamentally from looking too close to the airplane. You can't drive looking too close to the front of the car and you can't fly looking too close to the front of the airplane. Over reacting and ballooning the flare - You may be looking too close. S turns across the centerline - you may be looking too close. Drifting at touch down - you may be looking too close.

So that is this CFI's perspective. Your mileage may vary but the four rules of safe landings never change.
 
I had a rather frustrating couple of back-to-back days when I struggled with landing. I had several rather less-than-ideal landings, even though conditions were reasonable. I am not the kind of guy who likes to chalk things up to a 'bad day' and usually beat myself up over things like this. Anyone else have these 'bad days'? How do you deal?

I still have less than ideal landings from time to time. Lots of variables to contend with since we're now operating a in a 3-D environment. Updrafts, down-drafts, gusts... all of that comes into play. The main thing is to be able to land safely and competently (and confidently). I more often float than bounce, but both still happen from time to time.

Stick with it... you're likely your own worst critic. As long you know what to do, and more importantly, when to go-around, you'll be fine.
 
There is definitively a plateau that you won't overcome until you pass your checkride and get out there on your own. It just feels different when you're no longer under your CFI's supervision. For now, the goal is to exceed all PPL requirements and get your ticket. You landings need to be consistently safe and consistently achieve the goal (short, soft, x-wind, etc). They don't have to be consistently smooth.

After your checkride, take trips. Fly to new places for lunch or dinner. Go places you haven't been before. This is where you will build confidence and the frustrations you feel now will fade.
 
I have soloed (4 times, so far) and completed several PPL 'missions' including my dual cross country and dual nighttime requirements

This means that your CFI thinks (no, knows) that you are proficient enough to solo. Meaning, he/she is signing off that you can take off, configure the aircraft for landing and actually land safely. You have done your dual XC and night XC. So, from what you have written, it seems as though your CFI has confidence in you. What is stopping you from having confidence in yourself? Landings? Meh. As others have posted here, even folks with 1000s of hours don't grease it in every time. I mean... I do, but hey it's ok if you don't every time. That's why the engineers made the 172 gear so spring-y and the PA28 oleos so absorb-y. Point is - I'm sure your landings are fine enough if your CFI signed you off for solo. Are you close to getting signed off for XC? Have you had conversations with your CFI about your progression?
 
Get used to it. I had my worst landing ever after an IFR lesson with 3 approaches and 2 hours IMC. My instructor had to "help me out" on it and we joked that it didn't count as a landing for my logbook.
 
Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has responded. I feel better and appreciate all your positive words of encouragement. Flying has been an incredibly exiting, humbling and rewarding experience for me. It truly is the biggest curveball I have thrown at my life and I love it so much. If someone had asked me if I wanted to learn how to fly (I am almost 50) 7 months ago, I would have balked at the question. Look at me now!
 
I am 100+ hrs into my PPL training. I know that this is way more than what most people would take but I have taken the approach of wanting to be proficient vs. meeting the basic requirements for training. I have soloed (4 times, so far) and completed several PPL 'missions' including my dual cross country and dual nighttime requirements.

I had a rather frustrating couple of back-to-back days when I struggled with landing. I had several rather less-than-ideal landings, even though conditions were reasonable. I am not the kind of guy who likes to chalk things up to a 'bad day' and usually beat myself up over things like this. Anyone else have these 'bad days'? How do you deal?

I am curious about both the CFI and student perspective.

From a CFI perspective, you need to discuss with your CFI.
 
...How to fix things - POWER, usually more - often lots of it, ...
Great post.
Could you elaborate on the above quoted excision? In my PPL VFR landing experience I have found generally less power solves many issues.

I know power does not necessarily equate to airspeed, and excess airspeed increases the odds of ballooning/bouncing/porpoising, so it is difficult to believe you are saying dragging it in by the prop fixes many landing issues. Hence, my request for clarification.

It may be my experience is a few standard deviations off the norm as my home drome is considered by some a short runway.
 
Great post.
Could you elaborate on the above quoted excision? In my PPL VFR landing experience I have found generally less power solves many issues.

I know power does not necessarily equate to airspeed, and excess airspeed increases the odds of ballooning/bouncing/porpoising, so it is difficult to believe you are saying dragging it in by the prop fixes many landing issues. Hence, my request for clarification.

It may be my experience is a few standard deviations off the norm as my home drome is considered by some a short runway.

Thanks for your excellent observations. I've been to your website a couple of times and enjoyed it.

I'm not talking about the approach. It has been said often and correctly that a good approach is the key to a good landing. I'm talking about the time from the roundout/flare to the wheels touching. In this regime, and even if your approach was too fast you will eventually end up where you are operating "behind the power curve." This means that pitch is of virtually no use to you. By definition any change in pitch results in a loss of altitude. When you demonstrated min. controllable airspeed for you certificate it was not just to show that the airplane is mushy and slow to respond and you need gobs of right rudder, it is also to demonstrate that if you change pitch you lose altitude. The same applies in the latter stages of landing. So the cure is power.

Ex. 1: You approach a bit hot, or over control a bit in the initial pitch up, and the airplane balloons when you round out. You are now too high and airspeed is bleeding off quickly and you are, or soon will be behind the power curve. Eventually you'll get there. So you stop your flare and wait. Now you've bled off your airspeed and you are sinking again. At this point you are most likely behind the power curve and any pitch change will only make matters worse. If you pitch up you increase drag and your sink rate goes up. If you pitch down your sink rate goes up for all the usual reasons. You do not want to be there. High sink rate, nose either too high or too low. What to do? Add power. If the runway is long enough, re-establish level pitch and start the landing over. If it isn't long enough, go around. In addition the slipstream from the propeller re-energizes the flow over the elevator and rudder and you gain some controllability. Power is your friend.

Ex. 2: You bounce the landing and you are near the stall. Uh oh, now you are flailing around in an airplane with mushy controls, the stall horn is blaring and you are trying to keep it from landing on the nosewheel or slamming into the ground in a flat attitude. What to do? Add power. Lather, rinse, repeat. Re-establish a comfortable and controllable pitch attitude and start your landing over. Or, if you know you are still close to the ground hold the landing pitch attitude and keep feeding in the power until the mains touch. Remember while you are doing this that you'll need plenty of right rudder. A modest amount of power isn't going to make you go faster, it's just going to slow your descent. Remember you are behind the power curve and the only immediately effective control you have over your vertical component of flight is power. This is why you can't "pitch" your way through a windshear. Even if you are pitching up you need power. Power is your friend.

One thing I did not mention above is that landings are nothing more than slow flight to the other end of the runway. Since the power is very low (usually idle) you won't get there, just keep flying the airplane and you'll touchdown eventually. Thinking of it this way refocuses your vision to the end of the runway where you are better able to judge important factors like height, drift and alignment. If you are over controlling in pitch as you get into the flare leave the power at 1200 -1500 rpm (training type aircraft). This effectively slows things down. You'll use more runway but you will have more time to make adjustments as you now have more time before the back side of the power curve comes to bite you. This is how you do wheel landings in tail draggers and glassy water landing is seaplanes.

The pilots who demonstrate extremely short landings fly behind the power curve during the final stages of the approach. They don't need to flare because it is power that is controlling the descent rate not pitch. They've set the pitch for the landing attitude. Now all they are doing is controlling the descent rate with power. Same thing with carrier landings. Watch the in cockpit videos of carrier approaches and you'll see the pilots are flying a fixed attitude and using power to control their descent rate and airspeed. Remember these are short field landings for keeps and they need to catch a wire. Pitch attitude matters, what keeps them from stalling? Power.

Bottom line, flying is all about energy management. Do I have enough energy in the system to do what I want to do? I personally don't think this is emphasized enough in flight training. Stalls are too little energy not too little speed. This why you can stall at high airspeeds, even though your speed is high your energy is insufficient to keep you flying. In flight training they call this an accelerated stall. "See you can stall at high airspeeds." If you have enough energy you can go straight up at zero airspeed -- see NASA. You can substitute speed for energy in certain flight regimes, just like Newtonian mechanics works in certain physical regimes, but for flight, if you want to understand the whole system, it is energy that matters, just like in physics you need the yet to be discovered unified theory.

Sorry, a bit long winded but I hope it helps someone.
 
To add my own perspective to @Arnold ’s excellent post above ... and understand I’m at that pilot hour time frame where I have learned just enough to be a danger to myself (mid-300 hrs):

During ppl training in a 172 every landing was a power off landing. Personally, after learning how to fly several other airplanes after earning my ticket I think this is a detrimental approach to teaching landings. I do get that for a learning pilot it takes one factor out of the equation of the list of worries. But once a learning pilot can safely land power off then it would probably be a good thing to introduce using it as an option.

It took me a good long while before I learned that using the throttle was my friend on landing. Not talking a lot. Whatever is needed but like an 1/8 of an inch or so.

A smidge of power really softens that descent rate. Ideally I’m pulling power fully out just prior to touchdown.
 
100 hours and “soloed” four times. Does this mean you’ve only gone out in the plane solo for four flights, and are still flying most flights with an instructor?

If the above is accurate, my opinion is boot the instructor out of the plane and fly solo unless you need specific help learning a specific skill. You are just wasting your time relying on an instructor to be PIC for you. The whole point is to learn to be PIC. You aren’t doing an important aspect of that learning with an instructor sitting beside you.

This advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
 
No matter how many hours you have under your belt, you will sometimes make less than perfect landings.....everybody sees those...grease one on and no one is around to pay compliments..fact of life.
 
No matter how many hours you have under your belt, you will sometimes make less than perfect landings.....everybody sees those...grease one on and no one is around to pay compliments..fact of life.

So true! Another truth is that when you take a non-pilot flying and do a great preflight, passenger briefing, spectacular takeoff, smooth control inputs on a glassy smooth day, and have zero errors in your radio work if you bounce the landing all the witnesses say, "he sure ain't a very good pilot!" ;)
 
I bought my 172 back in October. It is an older 1966 H model and prior to that I had been flying the newer S models for the last 15 years....I would say in my not so humble opinion (LOL), that I was more than capable of greasing 90% of my landings in those newer S models given how much time/landings I had in them. When I bought this older 172, for the first 20-30 hours in it, I couldn't grease a landing if you gave me the calmest wind, smoothest, widest runway in the world. It took me lots of embarrassing touch and goes to finally figure things out and get a feel for that particular plane. My first landing in it actually scared me to the point I questioned my own abilities (fast as hell sink rate I attribute to flying my S model knots speed on the MPH gauge of my plane).

I sucked it up, gritted my teeth and just started really analyzing what I was doing on each and every landing. I started extending my downwind a bit to give me a longer final approach so that I could focus on getting a stable decent and eyeball my speeds and power settings. Eventually it came together as I realized my new to me plane didn't like the speeds I was approaching at and the sight picture over the cowling was slightly different as well (i kept landing flat with nose and mains at the same time)

I have a buddy who has thousands of hours and flies A321s for an airline that I wont mention here and tons of time in 172s as a CFII...I let him land my 172 once and he scared me to the point I had to grab the yoke to keep us from landing very nose low. I think it scared him too and he commented that his sight picture was all wrong being used to airbuses...but that goes to show you that even very very experienced pilots can struggle.

We all go through what you are going through...but as they say in Top Gun...as pilots we have to evaluate what we have learned and been through to make us better moving forward. Hang in there...dont give up, even us hundred or thousand hour pilots have landings we hope no one saw from the ramp or hold short line LOL.
 
Thanks for your excellent observations. I've been to your website a couple of times and enjoyed it.

I'm not talking about the approach.... Sorry, a bit long winded but I hope it helps someone.
Awesome post--thanks for the clarification. I've goosed power on occasion after the flare, and I've dragged her in on the prop (behind the power curve). I understand your point. Thanks again.
 
Anyone who says they make perfect landings every time is very likely lying. Landings get better with practice, as long as you practicing good technique. (Practicing bad technique, as in sports and other physical skills, is actually regressive.) I've been flying for over 35 years, much of it in the same airplanes, so you would think I would be perfect by now...nope. Some landings are better than others. As long as they are safe, don't bend anything, or rattle something loose, I don't worry too much. If your landings become consistently bad or consistently inconsistent, then it's time to get some tips from a good instructor. My primary instructor insisted we practice landings in challenging conditions (e.g. gnarly crosswinds), and although the initial exposure was very unpleasant, with repetition it builds both skills and confidence. It also teaches you when to abandon a poor attempt. Don't' let perfect be the enemy of good.
 
I just started tailwheel training... no I have never had a frustrating day where I felt like I was the dumbest pilot ever to grace the face of the earth... nope, that has never happened to me even when the instructor saves the day about 1 out of every 7 landings...; )
We are human, and we suck until we are good, that is how we are built. Hang in there until you are good... and then get better.
 
a few days back to flew to 5 different local airports with a pax, had greezer landings on all of them ( the one where you dont realize that wheels are on the ground), one of them was a fly in, as i landed, there were people who gave me a standing ovation because the winds were cruel and i still managed to greeze the landing ...


then i woke up, realized the plane is missing a mag, had my coffee, came to work with a long face.


I was a high time student like you, i didnt wanted to solo because my landings were crap as compared to my CFI who had 11k hours - when i finally voiced that, he get got out of the plane and told me you need to be safe, that is it. I get the strive for proficiency, but thats a life long effort. get your cert, then keep working on it.
 
General thoughts after reading the comments:

Don't sweat the hours. You are up in the air flying!

If you really like your CFI and you don't think he/she/school is bilking you...why change instructors.

When you solo do you only do pattern work or do you also head off to a practice area and practice other stuff?

Landings are weird. When we go 2..4wks of winter crud and no flying I fear I will bounce all over the place - and I have a greaser. The next morning I bounce one.

It is so much about sight picture and finding the perfect spot to look. That and being very stablized on speed, not just over the numbers but all down final.

I watched my wife do 6 greasers in a row one night in the 182....envy :) Then again her landings count is probably pushing 10,000 with lots of fabric tail wheel time and several other different planes.

Just think you might just be 25hrs from being done.

Sometimes you need to push a bit too. If you are ready for the first solo XC - tell your CFI. They might be watching for this signal to some degree.
 
When I bought this older 172, for the first 20-30 hours in it, I couldn't grease a landing if you gave me the calmest wind, smoothest, widest runway in the world. It took me lots of embarrassing touch and goes to finally figure things out and get a feel for that particular plane. My first landing in it actually scared me to the point I questioned my own abilities ...

Yulp! It was eight months after I got my tailwheel endorsement that I did the first flight in my current plane. I bounced the first landing attempt and went around. The second landing was not pretty but I was down and the first flight was completed without issue.

A few weeks later, early in the morning I was flying off the phase one and learning to fly/land the thing when a landing got real ugly. It didn't ground loop but it took every trick I had and a bit of the grace of God to keep me from buying anything. It did get my attention! I came home and told the wife that I was considering selling the airplane. When she asked why I told her about not being able to land it. She told me to put on my big boy pants and go learn how to land the airplane! Turns out her advice was good, and I'm getting a little better at it ...
 
General thoughts after reading the comments:

When you solo do you only do pattern work or do you also head off to a practice area and practice other stuff?

Landings are weird. When we go 2..4wks of winter crud and no flying I fear I will bounce all over the place - and I have a greaser. The next morning I bounce one.

It is so much about sight picture and finding the perfect spot to look. That and being very stablized on speed, not just over the numbers but all down final.

Great comments. I am fairy new to soloing so right now, we fly to a larger airport and my CFI gets out. This is how I did my first solo and my towered airport solo. My home base airport where the flight school is is a very small and challenging, so my CFI has not yet allowed me to solo here. My goal, when he lets me take off and land from the home base airport, is to fly small missions to neighboring airports, so its about aviating, navigating, communicating AND landing.
My CFI believes that my recent struggles with landings may have something to do with sight picture. I am a short guy and need to sit on a cushion :(
 
100 hours and “soloed” four times. Does this mean you’ve only gone out in the plane solo for four flights, and are still flying most flights with an instructor?

If the above is accurate, my opinion is boot the instructor out of the plane and fly solo unless you need specific help learning a specific skill. You are just wasting your time relying on an instructor to be PIC for you. The whole point is to learn to be PIC. You aren’t doing an important aspect of that learning with an instructor sitting beside you.

This advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
I agree with you and that would have been the plan. Unfortunately the airport I fly out of is very small airport with a small landing strip and challenging approach. When my CFI is comfortable that I can land in this airport, he will let me fly missions from it. Right now, we fly to a larger airport to solo.
 
I agree with you and that would have been the plan. Unfortunately the airport I fly out of is very small airport with a small landing strip and challenging approach. When my CFI is comfortable that I can land in this airport, he will let me fly missions from it. Right now, we fly to a larger airport to solo.
I’d consider changing something. Unless you’re ok with it taking forever. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you are ok with it.
 
I’d consider changing something. Unless you’re ok with it taking forever. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you are ok with it.

I agree. I know that the part 61 approach allows you to learn at your own pace, but I wish my CFI had put more structure around my learning. With that said, I share responsibility here as well. I am trying to change that now.
 
CFI perspective - Perfection is the enemy of competence. Self flagellation is best reserved for the religious types.

So if competence is your goal then the question is how do you define a "good" v. a "bad" landing.

My answer is to ask "was it safe?"

Here is how I evaluate safety (in fact lady friend has gotten pretty good at critiquing me).

1. Main wheels on different sides of the centerline (all aircraft, all the time).
2. Nose wheel higher than mains (tricycle gear).
3. No, or minimal, motion sideways (especially important in conventional gear but important in all airplanes.).
4. Reasonable descent rate on touchdown (glasses falling off your face? back injuries? blown tires? firewall bent? -- Probably too high).

That is it. The rest is frosting.

The most important thing to NOT worry about is bouncing. Bounces don't count. Most airplanes/pilots bounce or skip on landing most of the time.

How to fix things - POWER, usually more - often lots of it, and proper rudder, usually right rudder - often lots of it.

Technique - there are as many techniques as there are pilots. A few things I've noticed.

The most common landing errors are fundamentally from looking too close to the airplane. You can't drive looking too close to the front of the car and you can't fly looking too close to the front of the airplane. Over reacting and ballooning the flare - You may be looking too close. S turns across the centerline - you may be looking too close. Drifting at touch down - you may be looking too close.

So that is this CFI's perspective. Your mileage may vary but the four rules of safe landings never change.

Very good perspective. The good news is that none of my landings involved blown out tires, glasses falling off, or any kind of damage. Last week (when I started this thread) just were a bit bumpier than I would like and last week my CFI had to step in to assist once or twice, which is what I was disappointed about.
 
...My home base airport where the flight school is is a very small and challenging, so my CFI has not yet allowed me to solo here. ...
...Unfortunately the airport I fly out of is very small airport with a small landing strip and challenging approach...
Just how small and challenging how? Care to share the airfield?
What plane are you training in?
 
Just how small and challenging how? Care to share the airfield?
What plane are you training in?
That is like sharing my home address ;) ButI have to back up my posts with real data so I get it. The airpot is 7S3 and I fly a C172M or C172P. Runway 02 is 'easier' though it is still a short runway. Runway 20 is challenging because of the trees that need to be cleared.


https://www.instagram.com/p/CNMKlsLJlcF/?utm_medium=copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/p/CPAFjqoh-r8/?utm_medium=copy_link
 
Last edited:
Back
Top