Help me find a plane...

[flyingcheesehead]

OK, I'm looking to possibly buy a plane that I can use as a get-places airplane but also use for my Commercial and CFI(I) training.

So, by definition it must be complex ASEL.

I'd like it to be available for $50K or less, preferably $40K.

If it goes fast, great. I don't want one that's typically only used as a trainer though. No Beech Sierras.

So far I've been looking at Comanche 250's (and 180's).

What else is comparable?

 

[EdFred]

40k for a comanche? Probably isn't airworthy, but there is one listed on indyaero for 39,9. I'm looking for a Comanche right now. The thing is they are at least a 70k plane. Whether you lay out 70 right away, or 40 and 30, you are going to pay >=70k for a decent IFR Comanche. Get an old Mooney C.

 

[gprellwitz]

Kent,
If you're willing to hangar it down in SW suburbs of Chicago, we can partner on a nice TR182 or similar! I've got a lead on a nice Bo that a DPE is interested in selling that I haven't put on the website yet!

 

[wby0nder]

Kent,

I was toying with the idea of buying a tailwheel plane while mine's in the shop. Then the idea of getting a complex, IFR tailwheel plane hit me. I've seen several Swifts with all the necessary equipment in the $40-$70k range.

MM

OK, I'm looking to possibly buy a plane that I can use as a get-places airplane but also use for my Commercial and CFI(I) training.

So, by definition it must be complex ASEL.

I'd like it to be available for $50K or less, preferably $40K.

If it goes fast, great. I don't want one that's typically only used as a trainer though. No Beech Sierras.

So far I've been looking at Comanche 250's (and 180's).

What else is comparable?

 

[AdamZ]

Kent I think you have to talk comfort here as well. If you get a comanche or m20C I think your gonna be a bit cramped. While you need a plane that picks its legs up for the Comm. It might be worthwhile just to rent an Arrow or something similar for that portion of the Comm.

 

[TMetzinger]

You'll likely be comfy in a Mooney if your normal mission is one or two people (and a picnic or small child).

You might also be able to find an older Arrow.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Kent:

A partnership could open a lot of doors. They can really work out, or have challenges, but can give you access to something much nicer.

Best,

Dave

 

[RMCN172RG]

I purchased a 172RG in July to serve the same purpose. I paid 41,900 for the plane with 8000 TT and 1000 SMOH. These planes have ranged from 39,900 to 89,900 this past year depending on time and equipment.

I was watching a couple of planes on Controller.com when the one I bought went up on Ebay so I bought it there.

Reasoning

Cruises at 130-135 kt
62 gal usable
~9 GPH
Same weight and payload as a 172S
1650 gross
1000 useful load

I was able to get insurance with 140 hours total time IR rated, 13 hours in complex aircraft 5 in a 182RG and 8 in the 172RG make and model.

I thought the insurance cost was reasonable at ~2000 and no restictions. I went to Fl and flew it home with my wife and only one stop in MYR.

I did the checkouts in the 172RG and 182RG so I would have personal knowledge and the bosses opinion on the difference for another $30,000. For us the extra full capacity, full use, speed increase and insurance cost increase for the 182RG was not worth it.

Only real surprise so far was the cost of the battery, I knew it needed replacing but ouch.

Good Luck on your search

 

[SCCutler]

Kent I think you have to talk comfort here as well. If you get a comanche or m20C I think your gonna be a bit cramped. While you need a plane that picks its legs up for the Comm. It might be worthwhile just to rent an Arrow or something similar for that portion of the Comm.

Adam, i don't have any figures handy, but I believe you'll find that the PA24 (Comanche) is quite a bit roomier than either Arrow or M20. They are, most notably, wider than either.

 

[Tom-D]

OK, I'm looking to possibly buy a plane that I can use as a get-places airplane but also use for my Commercial and CFI(I) training.

So, by definition it must be complex ASEL.

I'd like it to be available for $50K or less, preferably $40K.

If it goes fast, great. I don't want one that's typically only used as a trainer though. No Beech Sierras.

So far I've been looking at Comanche 250's (and 180's).

What else is comparable?

This will do your CPL and then some and it's in your price range

http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_...up=truexxxxxsearchid=13796868xxxxxregionid=-1

 

[Ghery]

You might also be able to find an older Arrow.

Adam, i don't have any figures handy, but I believe you'll find that the PA24 (Comanche) is quite a bit roomier than either Arrow or M20. They are, most notably, wider than either.

I've got a bit over 60 hours in our club's Arrow and I can confirm that room can be an issue, especially for anyone you inflict the back seat upon. My only problem is that the seat position and rudders are such that my knees give up after about 3 hours. I don't have that problem in the C-172 or C-182. The C-182 is a far more comfortable cross country machine. But, if you're looking for a complex that is easy to fly, the Arrow fits the bill.

Oh, and I'm 6'2", so keep that in mind when reading my comments on comfort. I won't fly a C-150 or C-152 as I can't get the seat back far enough to keep my legs out of the bottom of the panel when I go for the brakes.

 

[vontresc]

Bellanca viking????

Pete

 

[sba55]

Bellanca viking????

Pete

In the mid-west? I wouldn't...

 

[jason]

This will do your CPL and then some and it's in your price range

http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_...up=truexxxxxsearchid=13796868xxxxxregionid=-1

111 hrs on an 8 year old overhaul? You'd know better than I would, Tom...but wouldn't that be a potential red flag?

 

[Tom-D]

111 hrs on an 8 year old overhaul? You'd know better than I would, Tom...but wouldn't that be a potential red flag?

Nope, not a problem "It's a Continental.." besides, it has 6 new cylinders.

 

[Tom-D]

In the mid-west? I wouldn't...

why not?

 

[gibbons]

Oh, and I'm 6'2", so keep that in mind when reading my comments on comfort.

Kent hasn't seen 6'2" since junior high.

As with anything, but sure to check insurance before you launch off on a C210. I have a friend who owns both a 210 and an A36, and he pays more premium on the 210 even though it has $100,000 less hull value.

It will be interesting to see what you can find in the $40K range that fits your needs. How about trying to find a partner?

 

[poadeleted20]

If you want it that cheap, that's the way you'll get it. I can't imagine what poor condition a $40-50K complex ASEL would be in unless it's a Mooney Mite (and it's hard to take a checkride in a single-seater). However, I have found a 180 Arrow in your price range -- no idea what condition it's in.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

40k for a comanche? Probably isn't airworthy, but there is one listed on indyaero for 39,9. I'm looking for a Comanche right now. The thing is they are at least a 70k plane. Whether you lay out 70 right away, or 40 and 30, you are going to pay >=70k for a decent IFR Comanche. Get an old Mooney C.

The 180 on indyaero looks OK. Definite pre-buy needed. I actually had a line on a 250 for $39K that the guy REALLY needed to sell (kid on the way, and I think he lost his job too). It had over 3000TT and still original engine, but it was still working. Unfortunately, it just sold ($36K).

I'm not looking for a cream puff here. I don't care if the engine is high time - If I can get some time out of it before it gets overhauled, great. If I can accomplish my goals before o/h, great. If I have to get it overhauled, that's OK and I can get the money for it at that point. I'd just prefer not to have to do it before flying the bird at all.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Kent,
If you're willing to hangar it down in SW suburbs of Chicago, we can partner on a nice TR182 or similar! I've got a lead on a nice Bo that a DPE is interested in selling that I haven't put on the website yet!

Chicago? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!



Sorry.

I'm not a big fan of the Cessna retracts, though I do love the 182. As for Bo's, they tend to run on the expensive to overpriced scale, and I bump my head on the roof in turbulence.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I was toying with the idea of buying a tailwheel plane while mine's in the shop. Then the idea of getting a complex, IFR tailwheel plane hit me. I've seen several Swifts with all the necessary equipment in the $40-$70k range.

Ooooooohhhh.... I like the way you think!

I know next to nothing about the Swifts, except I really would like a LoPresti Fury when they come out. Were the original Swifts aerobatic too?

Off to learn more...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Kent I think you have to talk comfort here as well. If you get a comanche or m20C I think your gonna be a bit cramped.

Actually, a Mooney M20J was the most comfortable plane I ever flew. The rumors aren't true. IIRC, the M20C is shorter in the back seat, the front would be the same. Might have to consider that.

While you need a plane that picks its legs up for the Comm. It might be worthwhile just to rent an Arrow or something similar for that portion of the Comm.

I started that way, but our local complex rental is a big POS Arrow IV that I hate. (Still has the auto-extend and everything, which is a pain in the butt for the comm maneuvers.) It's just no fun to fly, and since I've been in the club I can't stand renting. I will if I have to, but this is an exercise in how I can avoid exactly that.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

A partnership could open a lot of doors. They can really work out, or have challenges, but can give you access to something much nicer.

Agreed. I'm actually looking at that too, because there's a really nice Twin Comanche that is pretty much my dream plane (has all the avionics and other features I want, plus de-ice) and the price is right too. I just can't afford it on my own. So, I'm talking with some folks about that too...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Bellanca viking????

Hmmm. Dave? What do you think? (especially re: Felix's Midwest comments...)

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Kent hasn't seen 6'2" since junior high.

Heh... Sophomore year of HS actually. I started 8th grade at 5'8" and passed through 6'1" the summer after Freshman year.

As with anything, but sure to check insurance before you launch off on a C210.

Yup... I've got spreadsheets laid out for each type, and the ins. co. is one of my first calls on each one. Already have quotes for Seminoles, Twinkies, Comanches, and some others.

 

[poadeleted20]

The 180 on indyaero looks OK. Definite pre-buy needed. I actually had a line on a 250 for $39K that the guy REALLY needed to sell (kid on the way, and I think he lost his job too). It had over 3000TT and still original engine, but it was still working. Unfortunately, it just sold ($36K).

3000 hours on the original IO-540? That makes it at least a $60K plane in my book -- including the major overhaul that is almost certainly necessary for safe flight.

 

[sba55]

why not?

I admit that I know virtually nothing about wood airframes, so I'm happy to be proven wrong.

It just seems to me that a lot of rain and weather challenged winters aren't the best way to keep a Viking dry.

I think comparing a 182 and a Bo is a bit of a stretch. Very different airplanes with different missions. Maybe a 210 vs. the Bo (that was its main competitor). Not that there are many decent 210s or BOs out there for under 50k....

-Felix

 

[stingray]

I admit that I know virtually nothing about wood airframes, so I'm happy to be proven wrong.

It just seems to me that a lot of rain and weather challenged winters aren't the best way to keep a Viking dry.

I think comparing a 182 and a Bo is a bit of a stretch. Very different airplanes with different missions. Maybe a 210 vs. the Bo (that was its main competitor). Not that there are many decent 210s or BOs out there for under 50k....

-Felix

I have a Bellanca Viking (260) at KGTG Wisconsin paid 35,000.00 for it 1500 TT. No problems in the winter or summer. It is one of the nicest planes I have flown. superb in the bumps. Kent I met you at KEAU last year (Looking to put together a turbo) Jesse and his girlfriend were there. If you want to take it up and see if the Viking would be something you would be interested in let me know. You just get to try mine you have to buy your own.

Dan

 

[taters]

what about a beech debonair??

 

[foka4]

Kent,

Looks like you've gotten a lot of attention with this post. I can't wait to see what you come up with (I'll be in the same boat one of these days!). Make sure you keep us informed on your progress-and process, for that matter.

Of course, a tailwheel complex aircraft would be the "perfectest" way to go!

Matthew

 

[poadeleted20]

what about a beech debonair??

What sort of BE33 can you buy for $40K? Even for $50K?

 

[Tom-D]

I admit that I know virtually nothing about wood airframes, so I'm happy to be proven wrong.

It just seems to me that a lot of rain and weather challenged winters aren't the best way to keep a Viking dry.

I think comparing a 182 and a Bo is a bit of a stretch. Very different airplanes with different missions. Maybe a 210 vs. the Bo (that was its main competitor). Not that there are many decent 210s or BOs out there for under 50k....

-Felix

The wood is protected by varnish or epoxy finishes, inside and out all over, just like a boat, only cared for better .

 

[wby0nder]

IFR Swift with a CS prop. Find one under $50k and I'll chip in 50% today!

Kent,

Looks like you've gotten a lot of attention with this post. I can't wait to see what you come up with (I'll be in the same boat one of these days!). Make sure you keep us informed on your progress-and process, for that matter.

Of course, a tailwheel complex aircraft would be the "perfectest" way to go!

Matthew

 

[Richard]

You'll likely be comfy in a Mooney if your normal mission is one or two people (and a picnic or small child).

You might also be able to find an older Arrow.

Kent in a Mooney....hahahahahahhaha

Tim, Kent is a mountain of a man.

Kent should buy my PA-28-160. Low buy in.

 

[SCCutler]

What sort of BE33 can you buy for $40K? Even for $50K?

Not much of one, that I can tell you.

 

[Teller1900]

Where's Steve trying to sell you on an IAR??

 

[sba55]

The wood is protected by varnish or epoxy finishes, inside and out all over, just like a boat, only cared for better .

I always figured that they'd be hard to maintain in that climate. Good to know that that's not the case.

So...how about a Viking?

-Felix

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Kent in a Mooney....hahahahahahhaha

Tim, Kent is a mountain of a man.

I say again: A Mooney is the best-fitting airplane for me. Remember, Al Mooney stood 6'5", an inch taller than me! I'd love a Mooney.

Kent should buy my PA-28-160. Low buy in.

Just as soon as you make the prop bend and the legs fold.

(/me thinks Richard should read the thread before posting... )

 

[EdFred]

3000 hours on the original IO-540? That makes it at least a $60K plane in my book -- including the major overhaul that is almost certainly necessary for safe flight.

The plane at indyaero does not have 3000 on the engine. 700 I think.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Of course, a tailwheel complex aircraft would be the "perfectest" way to go!

I agree! The Swift idea has me really excited!

What I've learned so far: Swifts came from the factory with either an 85 or 125hp engine. There are a variety of engine upgrades available, from the 145hp O-300-D all the way up to a 210hp IO-360! Factory tanks held 27.8 gallons, optional tanks now hold up to nearly 60. Props range from fixed to the "aeromatic" to the "Beech Controllable" to constant speed.

There is a staggering array of STC's. They go so far as to allow replacing the yoke with a stick and moving the throttle from center to left.

So, now the trick is finding one that's equipped just right. Actually, I need to find someone who owns one to give me a ride to make sure I fit! I've seen people talk about 6'3" people flying them so hopefully that won't be a problem.

They also need some online forums...