Using the word "traffic" at the end of approach and landing call outs

Lndwarrior

Lndwarrior

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Gary
I'm guessing something changed with the FAA training syllabus since I got my ticket. I hear this at least 50% of the time now:

"Cloverdale traffic (no issues with this one) Experimental 972GL turning right downwind 32 Cloverdale traffic."

Ending the call with the word "traffic" seems unnecessary and was not the way I was taught a million years ago. I was taught you would simply end the call with "Cloverdale" without the "traffic" following.

At first I thought it was just a few mis-guided soles but I hear it so often here in NorCal that I'm guessing the FAA must be teaching it this way. Is this true?

If so, does anyone know the rationalization for it?

TIA
Gary
 
You put the TRAFFIC after the first Cloverdale because it indicates you are talking to the pattern and not to any particular station (i.e., if you wanted the guy on the ground you'd say "Cloverdale Unicom").

You don't need (and frankly in my opinion, should omit) the Traffic at the end.

Again, from the AIM:
6. Recommended self-announce phraseologies:
It should be noted that aircraft operating to or from another nearby airport may be making self-announce broadcasts on the same UNICOM or MULTICOM frequency. To help identify one airport from another, the airport name should be spoken at the beginning and end of each self-announce transmission.

(a) Inbound
EXAMPLE−
Strawn traffic, Apache Two Two Five Zulu, (position), (altitude), (descending) or entering downwind/base/final (as appropriate) runway one seven full stop, touch−and− go, Strawn. Strawn traffic Apache Two Two Five Zulu clear of runway one seven Strawn.
​
Of course, if were in Australia (or many of the British Commonwealth) the call would begin "All stations and Cloverdale traffic...."
 
I agree.. don't need traffic at the end, it takes up radio time and doesn't really add value in my opinion. A lot of people make up rules and "best practices" that just feel right to certain folks but really have no basis in anything
 
We can pick apart everything in life I guess. Using your example, instead of: "Cloverdale traffic (no issues with this one) Experimental 972GL turning right downwind 32 Cloverdale traffic." I would rather hear, "Cloverdale traffic, red and white RV-7 turning right downwind 32 full stop, Cloverdale."

I don't have time to read a tail number and "experimental" could mean anything.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I don't have time to read a tail number and "experimental" could mean anything.
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Good point. Around here though there are hundreds of "white and red archer" and "white and blue Cessna" etc., so I'll say the last two two or three of the call sign... like "tan and gold archer 76V"

That helps me too mentally when I hear a call on the radio just to call the guy back if I see him or not
 
my preference is hearing the last 3 of a tail # over a description of your plane. if you can't read back 3 characters, that's an issue.
 
No, nothing changed at the FAA. Just people not following the AIM.

I actually seem to hear the extra "traffic" less than I did several years ago.
 
Timbeck2 said:
We can pick apart everything in life I guess. Using your example, instead of: "Cloverdale traffic (no issues with this one) Experimental 972GL turning right downwind 32 Cloverdale traffic." I would rather hear, "Cloverdale traffic, red and white RV-7 turning right downwind 32 full stop, Cloverdale."

I don't have time to read a tail number and "experimental" could mean anything.
Click to expand...

I feel that calling out the color of the plane is pointless, especially when majority of planes are white. I don’t know when this practice started, but it has only been within the past couple of years around here.
 
@SixPapaCharlie did a video on this: "Denton traffic, Cirrus"

I typically say, "Hicks traffic, RVxyz downwind 14 full stop" and I'm hit or miss on remember to close it with "Hicks." All the extra position calls are dependent on how many other peoples are buzzing around.

I don't think the model of RV matters much in the pattern. They're all so damn cool. Almost Cirrus cool.

Here we've learned Texas has an airport named hicks. Does Alabama have an airport named redneck?
 
flyingron said:
Again, he's talking about the word "traffic" at the END of the transmission. Neither the AIM nor your linked instructional procedures suggest it there. Both say to end with the location, repeated.
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Ugh. Yep, misread the title. No traffic at the end. Don't hear too many using traffic at the end. I don't think it's a trend or anything.
 
I was taught to omit the word turning as well. “Home drome traffic, blue and white skyhawk left base tree-fower, full stop, home drome”.
 
Pnwannabe2 said:
I was taught to omit the word turning as well. “Home drome traffic, blue and white skyhawk left base tree-fower, full stop, home drome”.
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You can omit "turning" if you're not turning. Otherwise your position report is a lie. You're not left base until you've completed the turn.
 
Please don't just give me the colors of your plane. They all pretty much look the same, white with some accent color. And frequently you cant differentiate the accent colors. Additionally, for all you know there could be two other blue and white Cessnas in the pattern at the same time.

Your tail number is unique to you. Use it.
 
I don't care about the color, the number, whatever, just transmit your position. That's all I want. Then I can look and hopefully spot you.
 
What bugs me is describing your color and type instead of using your call sign, especially at a relatively busy uncontrolled field. What the hell are people trying to do? You hiding from the man? There's a reason we're supposed to use our tail number. It's a unique identifier so that there is no confusion as to who you are talking to.

One of the reasons I try to stay away from non-towered airports.
 
The color thing always seemed useless to me. My eye sight isn’t the worst but I’m pretty sure I can’t tell what color you are unless I’m a few hundred feet from you.
 
I think the color thing is useful. Particularly if your plane is something other than white. It helps if I know that I'm looking for a yellow cessna.

Okay, so there's the yellow cessna, WTF is that white Piper doing?
 
I usually just identify as "biplane" at my home field since it's pretty unlikely there's another biplane in the pattern.
 
Timbeck2 said:
We can pick apart everything in life I guess. Using your example, instead of: "Cloverdale traffic (no issues with this one) Experimental 972GL turning right downwind 32 Cloverdale traffic." I would rather hear, "Cloverdale traffic, red and white RV-7 turning right downwind 32 full stop, Cloverdale."

I don't have time to read a tail number and "experimental" could mean anything.
Click to expand...
I don't mind people using colors if they are easy to see, but I don't expect to be able to distinguish from a distance the colors of the thin stripes on two or three white Cessnas that might be in the pattern. As for tail numbers, complying with an unenforced FCC regulation may not be that important, and I don't expect to be able to read the tail numbers at a distance either, but if two or three white Cessnas do include their call signs (or even the last three characters) in addition to their type, at least I know that there are three different planes instead of just one white Cessna making confusing position reports.
 
Just got an ATITAPA yesterday. I didn't say a word.
 
Seems whenever we get in a discussion,of radio procedure,everyone goes after people using an extra word ,how much more does saying the word traffic at the end of the broadcast actually take,and how busy the airports must be to worry about it.
 
Velocity173 said:
Just got an ATITAPA yesterday. I didn't say a word.
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Assuming they include a position and intentions report with the ATITAPA, I would make an extra position and intentions report if we were close enough together to be a factor for each other; otherwise I just continue making my normal reports at the normal times.
 
frfly172 said:
Seems whenever we get in a discussion,of radio procedure,everyone goes after people using an extra word ,how much more does saying the word traffic at the end of the broadcast actually take,and how busy the airports must be to worry about it.
Click to expand...
This is the Internet, where we argue over trivia (including arguing about whether particular topics are important enough to argue about). :D
 
"Traffic" at the end doesn't bother me. It's wholly unnecessary, but it doesn't bother me. It's just another one of those things that is handed down through generations of CFIs, most of who where teaching others to fly with only the minimum hours and training to legally do so, and didn't really care to question what they had been taught by similarly qualified instructors, since they were only teaching in order to get to their hours so they could get the job they really wanted. Always seemed like a bad system. I've had to "unlearn" a lot of stupid things I was taught, and I've only been flying for 4 years now. I can't imagine how many things those of you who've been flying a lifetime have had to unlearn.

As to using a description rather than tail number, if I'm close enough to tell what color you are, I'm already turning to avoid colliding with you.
 
I'm not sure about "generations of CFIs." I think I'm hearing it a lot more often than I did in previous decades.
 
Palmpilot said:
This is the Internet, where we argue over trivia (including arguing about whether particular topics are important enough to argue about). :D
Click to expand...

There are some topics that are not worthy arguing over whether we should argue about arguing about or not.... :frown2: :lol::lol:
 
Timbeck2 said:
We can pick apart everything in life I guess. Using your example, instead of: "Cloverdale traffic (no issues with this one) Experimental 972GL turning right downwind 32 Cloverdale traffic." I would rather hear, "Cloverdale traffic, red and white RV-7 turning right downwind 32 full stop, Cloverdale."

I don't have time to read a tail number and "experimental" could mean anything.
Click to expand...

I agree other, color is often pretty useless to me, but experimental is even more useless. I like, "Cloverdale traffic, Cessna 498SP turning right downwind 32, Cloverdale." For experimental, "Cloverdale traffic, RV 978XP turning right downwind, Cloverdale." Most people know what an RV is and have an idea of its speed, which is the whole point behind saying aircraft type in the call. Saying experimental could be anything, something slow like a Kitfox or something about to run you down like a MIG; you have no idea. Only problem with RV is I have heard a lot of controllers mishear it as Army.
 
Zeldman said:
There are some topics that are not worthy arguing over whether we should argue about arguing about or not.... :frown2: :lol::lol:
Click to expand...

Why do you always argue with those who have the right to argue about mostly useless stuff?
 
I have a friend who says the name of the airport twice at the beginning of the transmission... "Taylor Traffic, Taylor Traffic, RV NXXXX..." It drives me crazy. He claims it helps you hear the airport he's at quicker... maybe.

As far as color goes, I have a friend who had an Orange Grumman, I have a polished plane, so Orange Grumman or Silver Cessna probably stand out better than our N-Numbers. As long as it's a unique looking plane, I'm okay with it. As someone pointed out, most planes are mostly white, so this does no good for them.

Once when a guy kept calling red/white Cessna, I started calling brown, brown, and brown Cessna since that was the colors on the 210 I was flying.

One thing I have had catch me off guard is when instructors make some of the calls and the student makes others. In a busy pattern, if I hear a woman makings calls, the suddenly hear a man's voice, I've found myself trying to figure out if there is another plane in the pattern. But for the most part, I just keep my eyes open and I've never touched another airplane in the air!
 
Dana said:
I usually just identify as "biplane" at my home field since it's pretty unlikely there's another biplane in the pattern.
Click to expand...
A friend of mine had a yellow N3N. He would could call, "Yellow Biplane" and people would ask him why he didn't just say "Yellow Stearman". I couldn't stop laughing one day when a guy replied, "Whatever. I know a Stearman when I see one."
 
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