20% Wall Tax

coloradobluesky said:
There is no question that we are removing carbon-hydrogen energy sources (oil, coal, natural gas), burning them and releasing CO2 once trapped in earth into the atmosphere. The amount of CO2 has doubled in some from 200 parts per million to 400 parts per million. (400 ppm is 4/10ths of 1 percent, right?). This increase is a man made event.

What is questionable is, is this increase in CO2 causing global warming? The "concensus" of scientists say yes, with just enough saying no that there is still some dissent.

What is also questionable is can society do anything significant about reducing this? Or are we just going to have to adapt to it?

It's a lot bigger problem that acid rain or ozone depletion. Very frustrating to think about too. Just when mankind invents medical procedures to reduce pain and suffering and has within it's grasp the political and economic knowledge to cure poverty and give freedom to all, along comes environmental problems and overcrowding. Well, human society has never been trouble free, that's for sure.
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400/1,000,000 = 0.0004 => 0.04% or 4 one-hundredths of a percent. CO2 was 200 ppm in the ice age, how do we know that? We guess.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I'd rather mandates be placed in effect based on a real need and facts rather than a knee-jerk response to "do something". The FAA was capable of creating such a mandate. As EverSkyward mentioned, the people involved in the Colgan crash met the hours required by the mandate. So the mandate really didn't do anything useful. The accident would have still happened even if the mandate were in place prior to the accident.

I'm OK with laws and regulations if they actually do something useful.
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This mandate DOES something useful. It prevents 350 hour know-nothing Part 121 First Officers flying your loved ones around.
 
Art VanDelay said:
This mandate DOES something useful. It prevents 350 hour know-nothing Part 121 First Officers flying your loved ones around.
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Were airplanes with 350 hour FOs falling out of the sky before the rule. No. The FO in question had about 2,000 hours, and it was mostly the Captain's fault, not hers.

That was a 100% useless knee-jerk law. Not only that, the knees that were jerking were in Congress, not in the industry.
 
Having been a line check airman in both the Beech 1900 and the EMB145 back during that time I MIGHT just have a TINY bit more insight than you.

The candidates with those low times required far more IOE and the washout rate among them was much higher than any we had seen previously.

The fact that you didn't see planes falling out of the skies is a testament to the Line Captains having the patience to function as unpaid instructor pilots - which is not how the system is supposed to work. When you finish your IOE you are supposed to be a complete product, ready to handle any and all situations thrown at you. Back then THAT WAS NOT THE CASE. In any kind of an abnormal situation I had several Line Captains complain to me that they were essentially operating in single pilot mode as the right seat was USELESS.

Maybe you're ok with that but not me.
 
Art VanDelay said:
This mandate DOES something useful. It prevents 350 hour know-nothing Part 121 First Officers flying your loved ones around.
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I worked with a retired airline pilot early in my career. When he was hired by pan american he had never stepped foot in an airplane...ever.
The airline paid for his training and he worked his entire career in the 747. Being a professional is a personality trait and a matter of character.

Being a professional pilot is nothing more than being a professional with a trade skill. Skills can be taught through training and mentorship. Professionalism can't be taught. Those people died in NY because that captain was not a professional. No amount of training or hours in a log book fixes that problem.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Having been a line check airman in both the Beech 1900 and the EMB145 back during that time I MIGHT just have a TINY bit more insight than you.

The candidates with those low times required far more IOE and the washout rate among them was much higher than any we had seen previously.

The fact that you didn't see planes falling out of the skies is a testament to the Line Captains having the patience to function as unpaid instructor pilots - which is not how the system is supposed to work. When you finish your IOE you are supposed to be a complete product, ready to handle any and all situations thrown at you. Back then THAT WAS NOT THE CASE. In any kind of an abnormal situation I had several Line Captains complain to me that they were essentially operating in single pilot mode as the right seat was USELESS.

Maybe you're ok with that but not me.
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What you are describing is a problem that doesn't need to be addressed by Congress. I have also been a training captain, although in smaller jets. Even when someone comes out of training with a fair amount of total time, they are not necessarily a complete product "ready for anything", especially if it's their first jet. That's the way it is and why they start out as FOs. There's a first time for everyone.
 
No doubt every airline would kill all training just hoping one of their untrained jockeys crashes killing passengers so they can go out of business.
 
PaulS said:
Except ice in Greenland, ice there shows CO2 concentrations much higher, so that is explained away. So much energy and money wasted over the weather.
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Do you have a citation for that statement?
 
Art VanDelay said:
This mandate DOES something useful. It prevents 350 hour know-nothing Part 121 First Officers flying your loved ones around.
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Azure gave a good response, but the cause of the crash was something a 20 hour pilot ready to solo should have been able to handle. Airspeed too low? put the nose down and add power if needed.

The Air France 447 crash was piloted with far more experienced pilots who encountered a pitot/static failure and they flew the plane into a stall. Simply having a lot of hours doesn't guarantee safety. The quality of those hours and the training improves safety.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Do you have a citation for that statement?
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Greenland core samples are generally excluded from CO2 studies because they contain CO2 samples from water, and not just atmosphere. Here's an example:

http://www.antarcticglaciers.org/glaciers-and-climate/ice-cores/ice-core-basics/

"This method provides detailed records of carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide going back over 650,000 years[6]. Ice core records globally agree on these levels, and they match instrumented measurements from the 1950s onwards, confirming their reliability. Carbon dioxide measurements from older ice in Greenland is less reliable, as meltwater layers have elevated carbon dioxide (CO2 is highly soluble in water). Older records of carbon dioxide are therefore best taken from Antarctic ice cores."


Though I don't have a citation, PaulS is probably correct in his statement - Greenland core samples will indeed test higher.
 
deonb said:
Greenland core samples are generally excluded from CO2 studies because they contain CO2 samples from water, and not just atmosphere. Here's an example:

http://www.antarcticglaciers.org/glaciers-and-climate/ice-cores/ice-core-basics/

"This method provides detailed records of carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide going back over 650,000 years[6]. Ice core records globally agree on these levels, and they match instrumented measurements from the 1950s onwards, confirming their reliability. Carbon dioxide measurements from older ice in Greenland is less reliable, as meltwater layers have elevated carbon dioxide (CO2 is highly soluble in water). Older records of carbon dioxide are therefore best taken from Antarctic ice cores."


Though I don't have a citation, PaulS is probably correct in his statement - Greenland core samples will indeed test higher.
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Thanks Deon, this could thread could get ugly real quick so I'm out of this tangent.
 
PaulS said:
I found it on the googles, I really don't care enough to find it again though. It was in a serious article about ice cores though.
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I suppose that makes it difficult to assess the information, as you are able to do when people cite the other side of the discussion.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I suppose that makes it difficult to assess the information, as you are able to do when people cite the other side of the discussion.
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Most time people don't even acknowledge there is another "side" to the discussion, I just like to remind them that there is. Again, I really don't want to get bogged down in it here.
 
Oh what a thread...

A discussion of tariffs is now... FAA accident investigation, climate science, and congressional over reach.

Let me add that Texas BBQ is better than St Louis BBQ!
 
Ravioli said:
Oh what a thread...

A discussion of tariffs is now... FAA accident investigation, climate science, and congressional over reach.

Let me add that Texas BBQ is better than St Louis BBQ!
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Well, that's like saying flying is better than walking.
 
Ravioli said:
Oh what a thread... A discussion of tariffs is now... FAA accident investigation, climate science, and congressional over reach.
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It's like our own little spin zone, but with respect for each other. Who'd have thunk it?

Actually, this is not unique to PoA. On 2 other forums I belong where political threads wouldn't previously have survived more than an hour before getting shut down because of mud slinging, over the last week those have started to survive. It's like people with different opinions suddenly now are more willing to listen to each other.

I'm sure it won't last, but I wish it could.
 
deonb said:
It's like our own little spin zone, but with respect for each other. Who'd have thunk it?

Actually, this is not unique to PoA. On 2 other forums I belong where political threads wouldn't previously have survived more than an hour before getting shut down because of mud slinging, over the last week those have started to survive. It's like people with different opinions suddenly now are more willing to listen to each other.

I'm sure it won't last, but I wish it could.
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Don't get misty... political discussion that a mod doesn't participate in will not survive. (and one will be along soon to tell me I'm baiting)
 
Ravioli said:
Don't get misty... political discussion that a mod doesn't participate with will be not survive. (and one will be along soon to tell me I'm baiting)
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Probably quicker than you thought. You get pleasure out of being the problem and not the solution.
 
Art VanDelay said:
l
The fact that you didn't see planes falling out of the skies is a testament to the Line Captains having the patience to function as unpaid instructor pilots - which is not how the system is supposed to work.
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Back then, that's exactly how the system worked and everybody knew it. You didn't walk in surprised by it, I suspect. And someone taught you (even if it wasn't 121) the things you passed on before that.

The only place that differentiated between "paid IP" and "non IP" with washout occurring prior to flying with "non IP" back then, was the military. Which, I believe is your background, but I don't remember.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, knew exactly what the system was in 121 back then. Captains taught stuff the training system didn't. If they didn't, the airline probably couldn't afford to do it any other way, and they'd go under. It's a way to leverage experience and increase margin.

Happens in every business, actually.

One of the reasons folks with a military background lament having to train other staff when they move to the normal working world is twofold, military can literally draw from an unlimited budget -- compared to the private sector anyway, it's as close to unlimited as need be for the purposes of discussion -- and military can define a "mission" and demand someone meet the "mission qualifications" anywhere in their training timeline that they prefer it to be.

Private business often defines their training as OTJ and it's exceedingly normal for any role. A senior person is paired with a junior person and the senior person keeps the newbie from hurting themselves, someone else, or the company.

I'm not saying it was right, or arguing to do it either way, but your complaints about it are often funny considering it wasn't exactly a secret. It had been that way since Ernie Gann's book in that part of the aviation world, long before you got there.

I've been mentoring and teaching newbies in telecom and IT for nearly two decades. I don't run around complaining that the system is "not supposed to work that way". It'd be great if it didn't, sure... but the companies see a value in trading time I could be doing something else for the company in teaching and mentoring and they don't see fit to hand out any larger change to my title other than "Senior".

Your title change was "Captain". Welcome to the old guy club. Everyone gets to do it.
 
PS. Both "Senior" and "Captain" come with a pay raise, so the complaint that it's "unpaid" training is wholly unfounded. Stay in the other seat, if you like. Same in my job. I can stay "Engineer" without the "Senior" title and have a whole lot less meetings to go to, less mentoring and checking other's work, and a commensurately smaller paycheck.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
This place is about a 4 min drive south of KPGV airport in Greenville NC. If you're ever close make time to stop in for lunch. If it's Getting late afternoon don't bother because they will be out of bbq.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...x89aee83669862a5f:0x626c52f2f392db17?hl=en-US
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Thanks for the tip! I'm there every now and then, my parents in law own a hunting cabin on Lake Mattamuskeet, so that's on my way when I fly to Hyde Co. I'll stop by next time I fly over there.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
This place is about a 4 min drive south of KPGV airport in Greenville NC. If you're ever close make time to stop in for lunch. If it's Getting late afternoon don't bother because they will be out of bbq.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...x89aee83669862a5f:0x626c52f2f392db17?hl=en-US
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mtuomi said:
Thanks for the tip! I'm there every now and then, my parents in law own a hunting cabin on Lake Mattamuskeet, so that's on my way when I fly to Hyde Co. I'll stop by next time I fly over there.
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Haven't been to B's yet. Have been to Parker's, though, my daughter lives a couple blocks away.

Good stuff.

But it's no KC BBQ.
 
Matthew said:
Haven't been to B's yet. Have been to Parker's, though, my daughter lives a couple blocks away.

Good stuff.

But it's no KC BBQ.
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Parkers cooks on gas. B cooks in a woodfired pit smoke house. Hence the running out of bbq problem. parkers is good. I like the one in Wilson better than Greenville. Bs makes parkers look like week old left overs. That little bbq shack is One of the things I miss most about NC

I hope you get a chance to try it and find it worthwhile.
 
The only time I was in Greenville we just had a couple days to find our way around. Folks kept telling us about B's but I don't think it was open, or our schedule didn't work out, or something. We went to Parker's instead. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck and knew it would be different from what I get/cook here in KC. I wasn't expecting it to be chopped so fine, I like it chunky.

We'll be trying to get back there in the next couple months to visit, and will definitely try another BBQ place. B's is definitely on the list.
 
Matthew said:
Here you go:

https://www.joeskc.com/pages/we-ship-bbq
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I've had joes. It's yummy. Didn't know they shipped. Thanks for the link.

Western NC bbq is not chopped and they use more traditional bbq sauce unlike the vinegar based peeper sauce found down east. I'm a fan of eastern bbq. Those hillbillies don't know to make bbq :)
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I worked with a retired airline pilot early in my career. When he was hired by pan american he had never stepped foot in an airplane...ever.
The airline paid for his training and he worked his entire career in the 747. Being a professional is a personality trait and a matter of character.

Being a professional pilot is nothing more than being a professional with a trade skill. Skills can be taught through training and mentorship. Professionalism can't be taught. Those people died in NY because that captain was not a professional. No amount of training or hours in a log book fixes that problem.
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That's a very good example from when airlines in this country briefly ran TRAINING ACADEMIES. And just like Lufthansa it can be very successful. If congress were to mandate that I would be happy to see that as well and maybe that's what it's going to take.
 
Everskyward said:
What you are describing is a problem that doesn't need to be addressed by Congress. I have also been a training captain, although in smaller jets. Even when someone comes out of training with a fair amount of total time, they are not necessarily a complete product "ready for anything", especially if it's their first jet. That's the way it is and why they start out as FOs. There's a first time for everyone.
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It does need to be mandated because if it weren't we'd still be waiting for the FAA to come up with something.

As far as "being ready for anything" the low time trainees were by and large (not completely) less ready given the same hours of IOE than trainees with more experience. That was a factual observation - I'm not imagining that.
 
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