Flying old airplanes- structural integrity

saddletramp

saddletramp

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saddletramp
I recently bought a nearly 60 year old airplane. A 182. It has 4500TT on the airframe & since I assisted in the annual inspection before I purchased it I know it's is a solid old bird.

Maybe because I learned to fly in the early 70's in mostly new airplanes, but sometimes, I look out at those 60 year old wings & wonder how strong they really are. Especially in turbulence. It's not like I'm a novice to flying I have way more hours in the air than my 182.

Is it me getting older thus more cautious or I'm I just weird?
 
Look at the wing structure. Remember there's only one bolt that prevents the wing from falling off... :)
 
The bolt very likely hasn't been inspected, because it's so ridiculously oversized to start with...

But when you fly a Cessna with struts, it really has two bolts per side. Either side fails, and you're dead.
 
mtuomi said:
The bolt very likely hasn't been inspected, because it's so ridiculously oversized to start with...

But when you fly a Cessna with struts, it really has two bolts per side. Either side fails, and you're dead.
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People who haven't seen a Cessna with the little cover strip off to get at the fuel lines or whatever, often don't realize there's very little attaching the wing to the fuselage and you can just look between both and see mostly daylight. Heh.

But the scarier Jesus Bolts are in helicopter rotor heads and blade attachments. ;)
 
Do some research on Cessna's SID program and try to get the docs for your plane. They've written a very detailed manual for specific inspections on aging airframes. It isn't required in the US but much of the instructions can be useful for guys with questions like yours.

Here's a link to Cessna Support. You'll need to establish an account before you can get the downloads.
https://support.cessna.com/custsupt/dynamic/dynamic.jsp?dynVal=240
 
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Those little bolts are of little concern. What's more important is the condition of the aluminum structure; it corrodes much more easily than the bolts. There are some areas where corrosion starts, and unless the airplane is inspected thoroughly by someone who knows what to expect, it can progress to dangerous levels. The Cessna SIDs mentioned by StewartB are the right idea. For example, there's a laminated joint in the wing front spars that can corrode between the laminations and rot away.

The tail is also something to watch. The tail is often what fails first in a high-G pull-up, anyway.

That said, I don't hear of Cessnas falling out of the air due to inflight structural failure. But that will change as the fleet gets older.
 
denverpilot said:
But the scarier Jesus Bolts are in helicopter rotor heads and blade attachments. ;)
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I have a '62 helicopter. I recently had it down for heavy maintenance. I was worried about all the stuff up top. There were a few issues but not too bad considering. What surprised me was the structure. Lots of issues found. It is actually quieter in flight now. The fuselage was moving around in was it should not move. Good stuff
 
Meh.
I worry about bird strikes or engine failures, or the idiot holding the yoke. Those kind of things are what will leave you effed up. A wing comes off your just dead.
 
I have read that there has never been an inflight structural failure of a strut-braced Cessna. Not sure if still true.
 
Don't worry, you will fail far before the airframe fails.

Folks like to buy "saftey" fact is ain't no such animal, majority of accidents ain't the fault of the machine, it's the man who screws up.

You will fly that plane into the side of a mountain, run out of gas, drive it off the edge of a runway, PIO it, etc etc waaaaaaaaaaaaaay before a wing snaps off, or any other dramatic unrealistic catastrophe like that.
 
If your strut braced cessna goes " bah chika wah wa" in turbulence, are you doing it wrong or right?
 
dmspilot said:
I have read that there has never been an inflight structural failure of a strut-braced Cessna. Not sure if still true.
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I believe that's true except for those "lost control and ripped the wings off in inadvertent IMC" type accidents, but there was a 210 that had some incredible corrosion problems in Australia that triggered some crazy AD a number of years back that was going to require a very difficult inspection of the wing attach points as I recall.

I'll hunt around for the reference. I just remember John Frank (RIP) being livid about the FAA response to it as nobody had ever seen anything like it in service other than that one aircraft but it triggered a whole bunch of fear and panic amongst the powers that be.

As I recall a number of experts showed the problem was that specific aircraft and the AD was mellowed a whole bunch.

Also know a CFI personally who noticed a wing had the wrong dihedral on a 172 during pre-flight at a large puppy mill and pointed it out to his student. One wing stuck up higher than the other by a few degrees on a level ramp. The previous pilots had bent and cracked the thing with lots of Gs, and somehow had flown it back without noticing. Since it didn't end in an accident, I doubt there's much record of it anywhere.
 
ChemGuy said:
If your strut braced cessna goes " bah chika wah wa" in turbulence, are you doing it wrong or right?
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They usually go "wooooooooooooooo" in precip. Not kidding. Just their way of saying you're having fun with your instrument ticket. Ha.
 
mtuomi said:
Look at the wing structure. Remember there's only one bolt that prevents the wing from falling off... :)
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What ? I count 3 on any Cessna 1-200 series, two in spars 1 in the strut.
 
DavidWhite said:
I've heard some really funny noises from strut braced Cessnas in bad turbulence
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That's Bill Cessna's ghost's way of tell you that you should have not gone here.
 
denverpilot said:
They usually go "wooooooooooooooo" in precip. Not kidding. Just their way of saying you're having fun with your instrument ticket. Ha.
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I was flying some approaches in my 182 the other day and noticed that. It is really only noticeable in the clouds....anyone know why?
 
I thought a 182s wings were glued on? Glue......strong stuff.
 
If it were bad they'd be folding up like accordions....and ADs would be issued. but...we all know that ain't happening. :D
 
neilw2 said:
I was flying some approaches in my 182 the other day and noticed that. It is really only noticeable in the clouds....anyone know why?
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Hahaha never seen any real explanation for it. It's just known as the "Cessna whistle".
 
Nonreason to inspect an airplane before buying it then, right? At keast no reason to inspect what the manufacturer points out as problem areas. You guys are arguing in favor of ignorance? I'd rather know what my plane's condition is. The OP asks a good question. Good for him for wanting to know.
 
denverpilot said:
Hahaha never seen any real explanation for it. It's just known as the "Cessna whistle".
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The empennage on RV-9s makes an interesting two-tone whistle. I've heard it on some videos I've made with the camera on the horiz. stab.

There are 10 wing bolts per side on a -9, and four of them are 7/16"...hope I never have to take the wings off again!
 
I'd wager a beer that you're more likely to get killed by gunshot from a over zealous DHS Rambo encounter on the ramp, than a major structural failure while operating per the POH.
 
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