Is it considerd owner MX!

James331

James331

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James331
While repacking the bearing, the grease retainer and spacer are replaced (part 28 & 32), can this be signed off by a owner with a PPL or better?

Oops, *considered
 

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No, it's beyond the scope of Preventive Maintenance. But, I'd bet many owner/pilots would do it and be creative in their sign off. We call it "Creative Writing"
 
So I can remove them to service the bearings, but I can't replace them?
 
James331 said:
While repacking the bearing, the grease retainer and spacer are replaced (part 28 & 32), can this be signed off by a owner with a PPL or better?

Oops, *considered
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When you ask questions like this, why don't you indicate whether or not you want the most restrictive interpretation or what happens in the real world. Glenn thinks (restrictive to the max) that it is not allowed. In the real world, 99% of owners would not even mention it in the log. If you were doing it as part of a 100 hour or an annual, 99% of the logbooks would not even MENTION the bearings, just "Inspected and serviced in accordance with ... " and then your signature, countersigned by the A&P or IA.

I just inspected for annual an airplane that said that "wings replaced in accordance with ... " and nothing more, not where they came from, not anything more. It was up to me to see that they weren't butched in, or a 182 wing on a 150, but that they were the correct wing. It didn't mean that I had to write that I concurred with the airframe mechanic that they were correct or any other opinion of mine. My sig in the logbook said that I agreed with the mechanic without any embellishment. It WAS my job to see that the washin/washout and deflection of the flaps and aileron were within Cessna specification, as we are supposed to do on any annual/100 hour.

Thanks,

Jim
 
James331 said:
While repacking the bearing, the grease retainer and spacer are replaced (part 28 & 32), can this be signed off by a owner with a PPL or better?
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(c) Preventive maintenance. Preventive maintenance is limited to the following work, provided it does not involve complex assembly operations:
(1) Removal, installation, and repair of landing gear tires.

Isn't the replacement of these parts a simple "Repair" as stated in the regulation? Done so with out complex assembly.
I see no reason the owner can't replace these parts and sign it off
 
weirdjim said:
In the real world, 99% of owners would not even mention it in the log. If you were doing it as part of a 100 hour or an annual, 99% of the logbooks would not even MENTION the bearings, just "Inspected and serviced in accordance with ... " and then your signature, countersigned by the A&P or IA.
Thanks,
Jim
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No. Thank you, Jim. That's a fine example of the "creative writing" I mentioned in my first post.

Tom-D said:
(c) Preventive maintenance. Preventive maintenance is limited to the following work, provided it does not involve complex assembly operations:
(1) Removal, installation, and repair of landing gear tires.
Isn't the replacement of these parts a simple "Repair" as stated in the regulation? Done so with out complex assembly.
I see no reason the owner can't replace these parts and sign it off
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Good question. "(1) Removal, installation, and repair of landing gear tires." Is that repair limited to "tires"? Is it a tire assembly, or a wheel assembly? Does a wheel assembly come with bearings? If so, if you change a bearing, should you also change the wheel. Or, is the bearing seperate from the wheel? If it is, how can you consider it part of a wheel (tire) repair?
Line (4) under (c) Preventive maintenance, indicates that wheel bearings are a separate Preventive Maintenance item, and limited to: "(4) Servicing landing gear wheel bearings, such as cleaning and greasing."
 
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Given all the other repairs allowable in Appendix A, Wheel bearing seals seem to fit the category of simple repairs even though they're not specifically mentioned.
 
I'm still working on my landing light circuit.
 
Norman said:
Given all the other repairs allowable in Appendix A, Wheel bearing seals seem to fit the category of simple repairs even though they're not specifically mentioned.
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Why then would 99% (as weirdjim wrote) not even mention the bearings in the logbook? That definitely meets the definition of "undocumented maintenance."
 
The way I read it is I can service the bearings, the retainers and spacers are part of that group, so I see it as replacing the bearings grease seals and spacers would consist of servicing the bearings,

"Repacked both bow wheel bearings, reinstalled with grease retainers (XXX-XXX), spacers (XXX-XXX), lock washers (XXX-XXX) & cotter pins (MSXXXXX), IAW Cessna MM, ops check ok, aircraft returned to service.
James 1234567ATP"
 
James331 said:
The way I read it is I can service the bearings, the retainers and spacers are part of that group, so I see it as replacing the bearings grease seals and spacers would consist of servicing the bearings,

"Repacked both bow wheel bearings, reinstalled with grease retainers (XXX-XXX), spacers (XXX-XXX), lock washers (XXX-XXX) & cotter pins (MSXXXXX), IAW Cessna MM, ops check ok, aircraft returned to service.
James 1234567ATP"
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Another case of "Creative writing."
 
What you people don't understand is that routine maintenance became non-routine maintenance once you found a discrepancy, and you hide the fact that there was a discrepancy.
 
How is repacking a bearing a discrepancy when the only discrepancy is lack of grease?
 
GlennAB1 said:
What you people don't understand is that routine maintenance became non-routine maintenance once you found a discrepancy, and you hide the fact that there was a discrepancy.
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Why would you hide that?

I'm my case the crap metal grease retainers and old spacers were replaced with synthetic airframes Alaska retainers and nice machined spacers, this is, if anything, a upgrade, I have zero desire to try to hide that and see zero benifit in hiding it.
 
James331 said:
Why would you hide that?

I'm my case the crap metal grease retainers and old spacers were replaced with synthetic airframes Alaska retainers and nice machined spacers, this is, if anything, a upgrade, I have zero desire to try to hide that and see zero benifit in hiding it.
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Ask the 99% that wouldn't document it. Ask the IA (mostly sparky), why it's ok to not document that parts were replaced on an aircraft.
 
GlennAB1 said:
So, you replace them for no reason, no discrepancy... that seems quite unusual from a group that seems pretty tight.
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It started off with replacing a flat tube.

I went on airframes Alaska to verify something on the spare tube I got months ago, I happen to see they have updated the Scott grease seals to these cool synthetic ones and also have some slick machined spacers, while I have the wheel apart to change the tube it would be silly not to repack the bearing, and since there happen to be a few updated seals and spacers, and since I have them out anyway, why not?

At least that's how I look at maintance. If I'm already in there, are there any other ancillary targets of opportunity and if so, let's do it.

To me I love seeing that stuff in log books if I'm buying a plane, it tells me about how the plane was cared for, was it someone's pride and joy, or was it amature hour. Maybe I'm biased but I think the entry I made would look good to a potiential buyer, not that I'm selling ;)
 
Wanted to get the consensus of the group on if this qualified under owner mx, it was a toss up in my head as to if this was part of servicing the bearings/preventive mx.

Just asking, didn't mean to stir any pots.

The only thing I WASNT asking was if it would be logged or not, ether I would put my John Hancock and numbers to it, or I'd have my APIA do it. I spent about $170 on the parts and a couple hours of my time, I want my logs to credit this, and it's the proper way of doing it no?
 
I'd say make a note or not. As mentioned, the way I see it... It's part of servicing the wheel bearings, just like you replace the cotter keys with new ones when you put the wheel back on the axle.
 
James331 said:
So I can remove them to service the bearings, but I can't replace them?
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While you can service the wheel bearings, you probably can't replace them with new under preventive maintenance. The FAA definition of "preventive maintenance" is simple or minor preservation operations and the replacement of small standard parts not involving complex assembly operations." In the course of servicing the wheel bearings, you see that the grease retainer and spacer are goobered up so you replace these ancillary parts as part of servicing the wheel bearings which is specifically allowed. No different than replacing a fastener or nut that is bad in the course of doing allowed preventive maintenance on a simple assembly during removal. I would log it as "serviced the wheel bearings and replaced grease retainer and spacer with part numbers ... reference aircraft parts manual....." You would probably be just as correct to omit the replacement of the grease retainer and spacer and just say you serviced the bearings. I don't usually list every small part/fastener that I replace as it's trivial and part of the process of disassembly and reassembly.
 
Witmo said:
While you can service the wheel bearings, you probably can't replace them with new under preventive maintenance. The FAA definition of "preventive maintenance" is simple or minor preservation operations and the replacement of small standard parts not involving complex assembly operations." In the course of servicing the wheel bearings, you see that the grease retainer and spacer are goobered up so you replace these ancillary parts as part of servicing the wheel bearings which is specifically allowed. No different than replacing a fastener or nut that is bad in the course of doing allowed preventive maintenance on a simple assembly during removal. I would log it as "serviced the wheel bearings and replaced grease retainer and spacer with part numbers ... reference aircraft parts manual....." You would probably be just as correct to omit the replacement of the grease retainer and spacer and just say you serviced the bearings. I don't usually list every small part/fastener that I replace as it's trivial and part of the process of disassembly and reassembly.
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Isn't this the same thing that myself and Tom said?
 
Tom-D said:
Simple,, maintenance is maintenance how ever small.
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Which is why in my opinion that there doesn't need to be an A&P sign off on that particular maintenance item. These regulations are like the Bible, everyone has their own interpretation. Like the above, its ridiculous. You have to remove the bearings to repack them but you can't replace them with new bearings that you packed? Really? Hide and watch me.
 
Timbeck2 said:
. You have to remove the bearings to repack them but you can't replace them with new bearings that you packed?
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Who says you can't
re-read my post above
 
Owner approved MX is whatever I say it is.
The only reason I get flack from the mechanic at annual time because my workmanship is better than his.
 
Dr. O said:
Owner approved MX is whatever I say it is.
The only reason I get flack from the mechanic at annual time because my workmanship is better than his.
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Seen that too. Used to have a customer who did exemplary work. Only problem was he never logged it so I quit doing his annuals.
 
Dr. O said:
Owner approved MX is whatever I say it is.
The only reason I get flack from the mechanic at annual time because my workmanship is better than his.
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you best get a better A&P
 
Tom-D said:
you best get a better A&P
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I wouldn't say that Tom, wouldn't want to put my name and numbers to a plane had someone turning wrenches on it in secret, if it's logged you could always double check the work if you were concerned.

IMHO I don't keep secrets from my APIA, personal or aircraft logs, and I'd expect my APIA to not do undocumented work ether.
 
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