What to look for in big land?

[SkyHog]

I have an opportunity that I don't want to pass up on if it's as good as I think...here's the deal:

40 acres of land with a 3000sqft home, very cheap. The land looks decent, is treeless aside from some vanity trees around the home.

The house is in pretty bad shape, looks wise. Lots of windows need repair, the carpet needs to be replaced and the siding, where it exists, needs to be replaced too. There is a separate mother in law quarters that is roughed in but has no interior walls or drywall. There is a separate workshop that is in really good shape.

So, the value of the house should severely reduce the price of the land, but I don't know how to value the other buildings and the land itself to make a decent offer. Clearly, the guy is asking too much (he wants 400k, at first glance I am thinking it might be worth 300, tops and probably less if the other buildings aren't worth much in value).

So...how would you proceed? None of the damage in the home is beyond my ability to fix, and the home is structurally sound. But if I had to hire a professional to fix it, there is probably a good 100,000 in repairs needed (10-15k by my own hand)...

Edit: also, what should I be looking for in the 40 acres, if my plan is to raise chicken, pigs, and steer (for consumption, not sale)?

 

[ejensen]

Nick, if it's in Colorado make sure you have good water rights. Isn't worth much without.

 

[Mike Smith]

Nick, in my neck of the woods, we value something like that as; cost of the land based on comparables MINUS the cost to demolish and remove the structures. Does land go for 40k per acre there? The answer to your second question is, how easy is it to fence? Availability of water/power. And lastly, for me anyway, I always look at the watershed, where is runoff coming from and going to.

 

[write-stuff]

Unless you're a farmer or rancher, why would you want 40 acres of treeless land?

 

[SkyHog]

Nick, in my neck of the woods, we value something like that as; cost of the land based on comparables MINUS the cost to demolish and remove the structures. Does land go for 40k per acre there? The answer to your second question is, how easy is it to fence? Availability of water/power. And lastly, for me anyway, I always look at the watershed, where is runoff coming from and going to.

I can answer some of these questions. Land does not go for 40k per acre, it is more like $5 to $10k per acre.

It is already fenced with field fence around the entire 40 acres, and has a separate pasture fenced off within as well. Water is well driven and already in place with the home and power runs to the property.

What about the home? I intend to live there. I don't know what you mean by price minus the cost to demolish the home, that confuses my little brain

 

[SkyHog]

Unless you're a farmer or rancher, why would you want 40 acres of treeless land?

To become a rancher...and to have a spot where I don't have to deal with neighbors or police.

Plus, I want to raise my sons in a manner that they can fend for themselves by building, growing, or raising what they need. And we want horses.

 

[SkyHog]

Nick, if it's in Colorado make sure you have good water rights. Isn't worth much without.

Hiw do you find out what the water rights are? There is a well on site...

 

[JOhnH]

Unless you're a farmer or rancher, why would you want 40 acres of treeless land?

I can think of one reason a pilot might want that!
Or a hermit.
And he did mention something about chickens, pigs and steer. I don't know about your neighborhood, but my neighbors would frown on that.

Being negative and putting down others ideas is not always a good conversation technique.

 

[write-stuff]

It was nothing more than genuine curiosity, John.

 

[ejensen]

Hiw do you find out what the water rights are? There is a well on site...

Should be with the deed and other paperwork on the house. Owner should know and the agent if it is listed. If not then the State Water Division.
http://water.state.co.us/surfacewater/swrights/Pages/default.aspx

 

[docmirror]

Water was the first thing I thought of too. You'll need to do some research with the deed and see what you're getting, plus you need to talk to the state/county water board that runs the license and regulation of the water useage. There's all kinds of water rights both surface and subsurface. You'll need to know first if it's a 'domestic' well, which as it name says is just for household use(common). Since it's on acreage, you may get some more rights to use for ranching and farming. The state might put a acre/ft/year limit on your draw(likely) and in some cases require you to monitor your own use.

All western states have pretty strict water controls, and you don't want to break them, because the fines can be high.

If you are handy, and it's not in a city, your repairs will likely be all you need to live in it, without any or much oversight, fewer codes on country homes, fewer inspectors too. I would check the big ticket items like foundation and roof. Interior stuff, and trim is cosmetic, but make sure the bones of the place are sound. Look for cracks from the corner of windows or doors indicating settling. Look for out of plumb doors, and signs of water seepage or stains.

As for the cattle, goats, chicken, I have no info on that, so can't help there.

Let us know which state at least.

 

[Stewartb]

Drainage. Exposure to prevailing winds.

 

[James331]

To become a rancher...and to have a spot where I don't have to deal with neighbors or police.

Plus, I want to raise my sons in a manner that they can fend for themselves by building, growing, or raising what they need. And we want horses.

This makes sense.

But where's the mention of the dirt strip for the plane



If you're anything like me, you'll also want to check that you have good ground and approach and departure paths, the airspace above you, and with the locals regs about airplane ops.

I keep my plane at a hangar at the airport, but being able to land at the house and leave the plane for a few days is a very cool feature in a home.

 

[nddons]

Water was the first thing I thought of too. You'll need to do some research with the deed and see what you're getting, plus you need to talk to the state/county water board that runs the license and regulation of the water useage. There's all kinds of water rights both surface and subsurface. You'll need to know first if it's a 'domestic' well, which as it name says is just for household use(common). Since it's on acreage, you may get some more rights to use for ranching and farming. The state might put a acre/ft/year limit on your draw(likely) and in some cases require you to monitor your own use.



All western states have pretty strict water controls, and you don't want to break them, because the fines can be high.



If you are handy, and it's not in a city, your repairs will likely be all you need to live in it, without any or much oversight, fewer codes on country homes, fewer inspectors too. I would check the big ticket items like foundation and roof. Interior stuff, and trim is cosmetic, but make sure the bones of the place are sound. Look for cracks from the corner of windows or doors indicating settling. Look for out of plumb doors, and signs of water seepage or stains.



As for the cattle, goats, chicken, I have no info on that, so can't help there.



Let us know which state at least.

Good synopsis.

 

[SkyHog]

Water was the first thing I thought of too. You'll need to do some research with the deed and see what you're getting, plus you need to talk to the state/county water board that runs the license and regulation of the water useage. There's all kinds of water rights both surface and subsurface. You'll need to know first if it's a 'domestic' well, which as it name says is just for household use(common). Since it's on acreage, you may get some more rights to use for ranching and farming. The state might put a acre/ft/year limit on your draw(likely) and in some cases require you to monitor your own use.

All western states have pretty strict water controls, and you don't want to break them, because the fines can be high.

If you are handy, and it's not in a city, your repairs will likely be all you need to live in it, without any or much oversight, fewer codes on country homes, fewer inspectors too. I would check the big ticket items like foundation and roof. Interior stuff, and trim is cosmetic, but make sure the bones of the place are sound. Look for cracks from the corner of windows or doors indicating settling. Look for out of plumb doors, and signs of water seepage or stains.

As for the cattle, goats, chicken, I have no info on that, so can't help there.

Let us know which state at least.

Thanks for the info! It is in Colorado, in Douglas County, actually.

 

[SkyHog]

This makes sense.

But where's the mention of the dirt strip for the plane



If you're anything like me, you'll also want to check that you have good ground and approach and departure paths, the airspace above you, and with the locals regs about airplane ops.

I keep my plane at a hangar at the airport, but being able to land at the house and leave the plane for a few days is a very cool feature in a home.

40 acres isn't enough for an airstrip out here....you gotta figure, in a square configuration, each side is only 1,320ft long. If I went corner to corner, that's 1,867 feet.

 

[SkyHog]

Wouldn't the advice of a good local realtor be important to protect your interests? I'd be scared to not involve one, myself. They may have knowledge of the area none of us would.

One is involved. Unfortunately, realtors have pretty much become "that guy that knows how to collect a commission" and don't serve much benefit anymore (at least, the last 4 I have had have been that way in multiple states). So I prefer to do my own research instead and just let him get the check and pretend to be important.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

So I prefer to do my own research instead and just let him get the check and pretend to be important.

I'm the same, glad to hear you are covering all sides.

 

[Clark1961]

40 acres isn't enough for an airstrip out here....you gotta figure, in a square configuration, each side is only 1,320ft long. If I went corner to corner, that's 1,867 feet.

Think CH 750. It's LS and STOL.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

To become a rancher...and to have a spot where I don't have to deal with neighbors or police.

Plus, I want to raise my sons in a manner that they can fend for themselves by building, growing, or raising what they need. And we want horses.

Have you any experience with horses?

 

[ejensen]

Have you any experience with horses?

Friends that have both say horses cost as much as airplanes and you can't just lock'em up for a month or two.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Friends that have both say horses cost as much as airplanes and you can't just lock'em up for a month or two.

More. And you can fix an airplane if it breaks. And keeping horses at home you'll never be free to get away for a week, or even a weekend ever again without worrying about the horses...and finding someone to care for them while you're gone. Kinda takes some of the joy out of owning a long-legged airplane.

But that's not why I asked. For a newb, I was going to recommend a book "Horsekeeping on a Small Acreage" by Cherry Hill. Gives a pretty good sense of what you need in terms of facilities and equipment to give it a go.

 

[Mike Smith]

I can answer some of these questions. Land does not go for 40k per acre, it is more like $5 to $10k per acre.

It is already fenced with field fence around the entire 40 acres, and has a separate pasture fenced off within as well. Water is well driven and already in place with the home and power runs to the property.

What about the home? I intend to live there. I don't know what you mean by price minus the cost to demolish the home, that confuses my little brain

Yeah, I am pretty poor at math and explanation. 40 acres at 10k would have you at the 400k mark and you are getting the house and out buildings for free. What I meant earlier was, if the house is in disrepair to the point it would cost about as much to repair as it would to build new, then I figure it as derilect. I may not tear it down and start over, but I price as if I am. After rereading your OP, I don't think the house fits that example. So all that to say, I have no idea, but good luck.

 

[Everskyward]

When I was looking for a place to live I noticed...

Closer to the mountains = more expensive
Trees on the property = more expensive
Views of the mountains = more expensive
Douglas County = more expensive than Elbert County (especially taxes)

But I bought in a subdivision, not a large plot of land.

 

[DesertNomad]

I can think of one reason a pilot might want that!
Or a hermit.
And he did mention something about chickens, pigs and steer. I don't know about your neighborhood, but my neighbors would frown on that.

Being negative and putting down others ideas is not always a good conversation technique.

40 acres if it is square is not really big enough for a runway.

 

[denverpilot]

Thanks for the info! It is in Colorado, in Douglas County, actually.

Higher taxes. But slightly better schools from what I've heard.

When I was looking for a place to live I noticed...



Closer to the mountains = more expensive

Trees on the property = more expensive

Views of the mountains = more expensive

Douglas County = more expensive than Elbert County (especially taxes)



But I bought in a subdivision, not a large plot of land.

That covers it well.

Douglas taxes will also likely rise faster than Elbert, but who knows.

Speaking of well, not only do you want to know that you have water rights, you also want to know the age and condition of both the well and the septic system, and how deep the well is. (Assuming the Denver Aquifer it'll be 400-1000' depending on topology at the surface.)

Also I believe Douglas, but I know for sure Elbert, now requires risers be installed on the septic prior to any sale. Make them do it while it's being inspected. And get it pumped. Let them find it and dig it up.

Douglas is in Water Court jurisdiction, while only a small strip of western Elbert is in Water Court, and the rest of it is handled by the State Engineer. Water Court is more expensive.

If anyone in the household has a job where they absolutely must get to a location every day, don't do it. You WILL eventually get snowed in. Not that often but it'll happen.

Look at how it's heated and cooled. Heated especially. We have both propane furnace and a pellet stove. Reason being, in years when propane is artificially high, pellets tend to go up slower. When we moved out here we were paying over $4/gal for propane. We augmented the heating via the stove with a pallet of bags of pellets pretty cheap.

This year propane is $1.25/gal. In a typical year we'll go through about 600 gallons.

(I want to replace our leased 500 gallon tank with an owned 1000 gallon tank and only fill it once a year when prices are best, summer usually. Haven't found a good price for a 1000 gallon tank delivered. One neighbor does it with two 500 gallon tanks and a valve to switch. His normal setup is one tank for each building with those being the house and his workshop but he can divert either tank to either building.)

Speaking of that, what's the distance and access to the County road, and assuming it's not a major feeder, or the school bus route, it's not going to be the highest plowing priority.

You can also get stuck in TOWN. Anyplace you'll need brights to see the road at night that also has a few windy blizzards a year means there's times you'll either be leaving the office when the weather in town is doing nothing saying, "gotta leave now or I won't get home" at 2PM, or you'll be sleeping at your desk.

How's the road condition on the property (road repairs can get spendy real fast if you don't have gear, and even if you do it probably isn't big enough for a major re-grade).

House condition and what not, I have no comment on. Same as any other house, really.

House up the road on 4 acres that was well maintained and had all the amenities in a medium sized ranch with a finished basement, went for $325 a couple of weeks ago. I don't think you're getting hosed at $400 with the extra 36 acres.

Get it surveyed and marked. Property lines get screwed up out here all the time.

Oh and... Figure out how it gets Internet if you need it. I suspect you do. It's the only thing I am mildly annoyed with out here but our options are CenturyLink at 1.5Mb down/.5 up, or the two fixed wireless companies at 5Mb down, 1 up. If I get a new Motorola Canopy unit and put it up the tower I can shoot to a different feed tower and get 15Mb/5Mb.

Horses: No way in hell I would own one. Talking to the neighbors, I'm estimating that flying helicopters would be cheaper. And they're often a 20+ year commitment.

Gear: It ain't cheap. Price a tractor or ZTR for mowing duty before taking the plunge. A riding mower will work but budget 8 hours to even do a small portion of 40 acres. Obviously you won't mow it all.

4WD: Ditch the car or have a plan to have enough 4WD or AWD vehicles to get everyone where they need to go in portions of winter.

If you want to PM the address I'll be happy to look at where it is and suggests any other local weirdnesses if I notice any.

 

[Everskyward]

Higher taxes. But slightly better schools from what I've heard. Also I believe Douglas, but I know for sure Elbert, now requires risers be installed on the septic prior to any sale. Make them do it while it's being inspected. And get it pumped. Let them find it and dig it up.

I dug mine out for the last time this summer. Had the risers installed.

 

[denverpilot]

I dug mine out for the last time this summer. Had the risers installed.

Yup. Same here.

 

[murphey]

Good suggestions all, but along eith the water rights, strucutre, etc, check for bentonite...wonderful Colorado mineral that has caused damage to many homes.

 

[James331]

40 acres isn't enough for an airstrip out here....you gotta figure, in a square configuration, each side is only 1,320ft long. If I went corner to corner, that's 1,867 feet.

1300' is plenty.

 

[RalphInCA]

Unless you have tons of money to throw at it, and even if you do, expect that place to be your part-time to almost full-time job for the next several years. I hope you enjoy home fix up type stuff because it'll be taking a lot of your time treasure and talents. Been there done that will never do it again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[James331]

Unless you have tons of money to throw at it, and even if you do, expect that place to be your part-time to almost full-time job for the next several years. I hope you enjoy home fix up type stuff because it'll be taking a lot of your time treasure and talents. Been there done that will never do it again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

However being able to raise kids in that enviroment and the other benifits, I'd say it would be a good investment of said time.

 

[SkyHog]

Higher taxes. But slightly better schools from what I've heard.

Taxes aren't too bad, considering that I am coming up from El Paso County...

That covers it well.

Douglas taxes will also likely rise faster than Elbert, but who knows.

Speaking of well, not only do you want to know that you have water rights, you also want to know the age and condition of both the well and the septic system, and how deep the well is. (Assuming the Denver Aquifer it'll be 400-1000' depending on topology at the surface.)

No clue on the water rights yet. I am going to have to check. I do know that the well is 500ft deep, but not sure when it was dug. The septic system and leach fields looked to be in decent and functional condition, from my experience so far.

Also I believe Douglas, but I know for sure Elbert, now requires risers be installed on the septic prior to any sale. Make them do it while it's being inspected. And get it pumped. Let them find it and dig it up.

Looks like the risers were just recent installed. Probably because the lot went on sale.

Douglas is in Water Court jurisdiction, while only a small strip of western Elbert is in Water Court, and the rest of it is handled by the State Engineer. Water Court is more expensive.

If anyone in the household has a job where they absolutely must get to a location every day, don't do it. You WILL eventually get snowed in. Not that often but it'll happen.

No worries there, for now. Wife is a homemaker and I have a job that allows wfh when necessary. Not sure how school will work when the kids get a bit older. Very good point to think about.

Look at how it's heated and cooled. Heated especially. We have both propane furnace and a pellet stove. Reason being, in years when propane is artificially high, pellets tend to go up slower. When we moved out here we were paying over $4/gal for propane. We augmented the heating via the stove with a pallet of bags of pellets pretty cheap.

You know, I didn't see any infrastructure for heating when I checked it out, aside from the pellet stove in the basement.I need to check again. I wonder if it might have natural gas on site....it is cooled by swamp cooler, which I am not a big fan of.

This year propane is $1.25/gal. In a typical year we'll go through about 600 gallons.

(I want to replace our leased 500 gallon tank with an owned 1000 gallon tank and only fill it once a year when prices are best, summer usually. Haven't found a good price for a 1000 gallon tank delivered. One neighbor does it with two 500 gallon tanks and a valve to switch. His normal setup is one tank for each building with those being the house and his workshop but he can divert either tank to either building.)

Speaking of that, what's the distance and access to the County road, and assuming it's not a major feeder, or the school bus route, it's not going to be the highest plowing priority.

It is on a county rd, but the drive way is very long. I will need to check on the bus route. Good points!

You can also get stuck in TOWN. Anyplace you'll need brights to see the road at night that also has a few windy blizzards a year means there's times you'll either be leaving the office when the weather in town is doing nothing saying, "gotta leave now or I won't get home" at 2PM, or you'll be sleeping at your desk.

How's the road condition on the property (road repairs can get spendy real fast if you don't have gear, and even if you do it probably isn't big enough for a major re-grade).

House condition and what not, I have no comment on. Same as any other house, really.

House up the road on 4 acres that was well maintained and had all the amenities in a medium sized ranch with a finished basement, went for $325 a couple of weeks ago. I don't think you're getting hosed at $400 with the extra 36 acres.

Get it surveyed and marked. Property lines get screwed up out here all the time.

Oh and... Figure out how it gets Internet if you need it. I suspect you do. It's the only thing I am mildly annoyed with out here but our options are CenturyLink at 1.5Mb down/.5 up, or the two fixed wireless companies at 5Mb down, 1 up. If I get a new Motorola Canopy unit and put it up the tower I can shoot to a different feed tower and get 15Mb/5Mb.

Internet choices suck. The current owner runs Direct Link, which I had never heard of. They advertise up to 200Mb, but I suspect it is very expensive. CenturyLink is an option too. Comcast says they are planning on expanding that way soon.

Horses: No way in hell I would own one. Talking to the neighbors, I'm estimating that flying helicopters would be cheaper. And they're often a 20+ year commitment.

That's my wife's deal. I agree with you, but she wants horses. She grew up with them.

Gear: It ain't cheap. Price a tractor or ZTR for mowing duty before taking the plunge. A riding mower will work but budget 8 hours to even do a small portion of 40 acres. Obviously you won't mow it all.

4WD: Ditch the car or have a plan to have enough 4WD or AWD vehicles to get everyone where they need to go in portions of winter.

Yeah, we did that anyway since Monument winters are so bad.

If you want to PM the address I'll be happy to look at where it is and suggests any other local weirdnesses if I notice any.

Will do! Thanks!

 

[SkyHog]

1300' is plenty.

In Colorado? Even a Cub would take more to takeoff than that.

 

[docmirror]

For ground work, I have a cheap, small, easy to use Ford 8N tractor. I've got a 6' blade on the back, and a 5ft brush hog for clearing. If you want to read the tractor thread, of course you can spend billions on a tractor, but for the most part a small farm unit like I have will do a bunch of jobs and not break the bank. Feguson TO25 or 30, Ford Jubilee, or something like that will handle most jobs on 40 ac unless you want to really invest. I can clear land pretty fast as long as it's not sloped a lot. Dragging the driveway of 300' is two passes, one up and one down and that's a 10 min job. For me, the tractor theory is KISS. I don't want to be working on it constantly.

As for aviation use, there are several candidates that will get off on a cool morning in 1600' at your elevation(unless you are at the top of a mtn). I'm looking at the Luscombe 8E or 8F with a metal climb prop. I drove one a few weeks ago in Taos at 7000' that took two people off the ground in 1100'. Keep it light. But - if you have a neighbor within 2 miles, you can forget aviation anyway because they will surely object. I have 40 ac but it's laid out in kind of a line(into the wind too!) so I can get about 2600' of runway and no neighbors. I'm thinking a C175 or that Luscombe will do the job.

I forgot about Bentonite. You almost surely have some on the land somewhere. Do a good foundation check.

 

[Everskyward]

You know, I didn't see any infrastructure for heating when I checked it out, aside from the pellet stove in the basement.I need to check again. I wonder if it might have natural gas on site....it is cooled by swamp cooler, which I am not a big fan of.

I am doubting that it has natural gas. One of the selling points of the subdivision I live in is that is has natural gas (and underground electric). Most other places I checked on heated with propane. These were large lot subdivisions, not a 40 acre parcel, but it was also 25 years ago. I don't know what is available now. But if it currently only has a pellet stove I would not think it had natural gas.

I don't know if your job or hobbies depends on a fast ISP but that can also be an issue out in the sticks. At my house the DSL is slow and wireless is not that great either. Your property may have an advantage since you said it doesn't have trees. I think my signal is partially blocked by trees. I guess satellite is also an option but I have heard that is slow too.

As far as living in a place like that, I'm wondering if you grew up in a similar location or if it is a romantic notion of living off the land, so to speak. It might be fine for kids while they are young but I have heard older kids around here complaining of nothing to do. Of course you could put them to work restoring the property which might not be finished yet. From the time they get restless to the time they drive, someone will need to do the transporting. I don't know about the area you are thinking of, but the two-lane main roads around here are not exactly suited for bicycles. They have little to no shoulders. The only people I see riding bicycles are hard-core adults.

Some people move out to "the country" and love it. Others leave after a few years. You and your wife know best how you think you will react, but it's good to consider some of these things which you might not have thought of.

 

[James331]

In Colorado? Even a Cub would take more to takeoff than that.

Depends on the cub (J3 or PA18-180), the wind and the load.

For example I could do it in my plane based on KDENs condition right now.

 

[denverpilot]

You know, I didn't see any infrastructure for heating when I checked it out, aside from the pellet stove in the basement.I need to check again. I wonder if it might have natural gas on site....it is cooled by swamp cooler, which I am not a big fan of.

Understandably a personal decision but you might be surprised. Around here it's usually so dry they work really well except for a couple of hours around summer thunderstorms when it gets a big muggy. And maintenance is different than just throwing a cover on them for the winter, since they should be drained, etc.

Internet choices suck. The current owner runs Direct Link, which I had never heard of. They advertise up to 200Mb, but I suspect it is very expensive. CenturyLink is an option too. Comcast says they are planning on expanding that way soon.

They do fine but it's limited speed. DirectLink is a local company. The other option usually available is Rise Broadband which is a larger entity that came about from the mergers of multiple wireless ISPs from Ft Collins to Evrergreen on the west and then they all expanded eastward. A friend started the Evergreen one and sold it to them many years ago. Both are using Motorola Canopy gear for the most part. The units are small but if you're a longer way from the nearest uplink they'll mount it to what looks like a satellite dish for TV and aim it. Mine has no dish, they needed a dish for the neighbor.

Mine peeking around the corner (I'm on the deck trying to take a picture around the corner. Ha. It's on a standard Satellite dish offset mast screwed into the header on that outside wall.

His on his roof.

We are both shooting to a "windmill" on someone else's property about 10-12 acres away.

I think as Rise gets bigger, I would go with DirectLink but I'm already on Rise and they're doing fine.

Oh! That reminds me. Cell coverage. Check it. And don't trust a map. You may find your chosen carrier doesn't work worth a XXXX there.

Various ways to deal with that, cell boosters, microcell on the DirectLink/Rise bandwidth and/or WiFi calling if your carrier/device have it. I'm sure you know that part. But the coverage ... Check the coverage.

 

[Everskyward]

The pellet stove made me think of something else. Does the house even have ducting for forced air? I know someone who heats with a wood stove because his house has no ducting. It was originally built to heat with electric which is very expensive. He said that adding the ducting would be a major project. But then it seems that your proposed house is a project so you might be able to add ducting at that time.

 

[denverpilot]

The pellet stove made me think of something else. Does the house even have ducting for forced air? I know someone who heats with a wood stove because his house has no ducting. It was originally built to heat with electric which is very expensive. He said that adding the ducting would be a major project. But then it seems that your proposed house is a project so you might be able to add ducting at that time.

I was thinking that too, with our major duct rework we did this last spring. We had a furnace but it really wasn't ducted into the house correctly.

We made it much better, but it's still never going to be "right". When we replaced the furnace we found out. When we finally had a pluming leak in an upstairs bathroom feed line, it was time to tear out the basement ceiling and rework the ducts.

Ended up working out pretty well in the end, we also replaced the dead A/C unit at the same time. Wasn't cheap, but the house is way more comfortable than the first two seasons. And I won't be worried about the basement bathroom on the outside wall freezing up on the -10F nights.

Talking to neighbors there's everything from furnace / A/C setups to heat pumps to folks who do nothing but wood with electric backup. If they even have the backup.

We probably should have done a heat pump at the low IREA electric rates, but the payback was many years out on it at low propane prices and not that many years shorter on high propane prices. If we didn't already have the pellet stove as a secondary source it would maybe have been worth it. We can still replace be A/C with one if we really want it later. The coil unit we have is rated for it.

That reminds me. IREA or Xcel at the place, Nick? It'll make a difference in utilities costs. IREA being a co-op, they don't participate at all in any government rebates for solar, nor most of the rebates for greater efficiency, etc. They own a major stake in one of the coal plants at PUB so they're pretty much a bottom dollar coal-fired electric co-op with annual rebate checks if they don't use up all of their maintenance budget in a year. Xcel, well you probably already had them in El Paso County.

Oh yeah... Budget a generator big enough to do at least two things. Run the fridge and run the well pump. And if you have forced air gas heat, enough to kick off the blower and the controls. (In our case we just need a very low amperage AC 110V to run the controls and blower on the pellet stove) Maybe not all at the same time (heck you can stick the fridge stuff outside in a cooler if you're snowed in without power). But no water makes people crabby. (After that, no hot water will... Haha)

(For two adults only this isn't awful. For a household with kids, I'd make sure I had a solid backup electrical plan.)

I have enough gensets and knowledge of how to patch them into things safely to run stuff if I have to and isolate the house from the mains to safety the stuff for the line crews. A good icy wind storm will bring down all the overhead lines. But we'd like to upgrade to a "whole house" generator with an automatic transfer switch, run off of the propane (back to that wanting 1000 gallons thing), and not ever worry about it.

Plus we can always retreat to the fifth wheel if something horribly long with extended power problems happens. Problem there is keeping the water line from freezing, which means temporarily skirting it, something I wouldn't bother doing for anything less than a week. But that leads to the want of a barn big enough to park it in and a way to ventilate the water heater in it outdoors... Heh.

The list of goodies just keeps getting longer as my willingness to pay for them has always been very short, thankfully.

Here's a piece of advice I got from one of my airplane co-owners who used to sell real estate out here and down to the Black Forest area. "You'll know if you like living in the rural area in three years. Three years was the average home turnover when I sold a house out there. People either moved out there for three years and decided they hated it and moved back, or they stayed forever. Really wasn't much in-between." Take it or leave it, but we're coming up on winter number 3 ourselves and I think we're staying.

I'm the "country kid" and I actually dislike the time aspect of the commute more than Karen does, which surprised me. She even did a few months as a PRN home care nurse out here during winter, driving into town and all over the place that winter. I love the commute itself, half of it is zero traffic, county roads at 50, no problem there. It's the two hours a day lost to it that gets a small amount frustrating at times. I used to leave the office in town and drive 10 minutes home and then do another project or log into work and get more stuff down after hours like all sysadmins do, and lately if I finish up late at the office and Karen is out at a rehearsal I'm close to two hours getting home after stopping for "whatever" in town (meal, pick up doggies at their day camp, whatever) and then heading out here at a leisurely pace. So rarely am I home early enough after letting dogs out, feeding, and what not, to bother starting any projects that late. (So I waste time on PoA instead! Haha!)