Plane Down at CDW

I

iRyan

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Feb 25, 2012
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Display name:
Ryan
Just found out I lost a friend yesterday in a crash. Looks like an engine failure on take off from what I hear. I wont post his name as it has not been released yet.
 
I work at that airport but was off yesterday. I heard about this crash from my former aviation professor late last night.

I am very sorry for your loss.
 
Ah this sucks. I'm so sorry.
 
Thanks all. I did my CFI training with him an we drilled emergency procedures like crazy. If he was t successful after all his fluid, how can I be since I don't fly nearly as often. I really hope he didn't spin it in.
 
iRyan said:
Thanks all. I did my CFI training with him an we drilled emergency procedures like crazy. If he was t successful after all his fluid, how can I be since I don't fly nearly as often. I really hope he didn't spin it in.
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That's a silly thing to say, some situations are not survivable regardless. You should try to hold yourself up a little higher.
 
Bad weekend here in the NYC metro area. A Bonanza went down on Long Island this morning, ironically almost on the grounds of what used to be Bethpage airport. Its always different when it somehow hits close to home. I'm sorry about your friend.
 
Sorry for your loss of a friend,may he rest in peace.
 
Sorry for your loss, heard about it yesterday on the news and got more details this morning when I went for a quick flight at KCDW.
 
That is very sad to hear. I fell for you and his family. Just horrible.
 
Bummer :( Sounds like he tried an "impossible turn".
“This plane was just making this very sharp turn, and it just like dove into the ground.
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I think I need more engine out practice with a CFI. Especially simulated engine out practice on takeoff. I don't want to be the one trying the impossible turn.
 
evapilotaz said:
I think I need more engine out practice with a CFI. Especially simulated engine out practice on takeoff. I don't want to be the one trying the impossible turn.
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What you want to practice is slow flight with the stall horn screaming at you. Get comfortable with handling the plane at the very bottom of the speed envelope, using the rudder to pick up the wings, even practice falling leaf stalls. The key is to overcome the tendency to use the ailerons to pick up the wings as at the very bottom of the speed envelope it will have the opposite effect by stalling the wing on the down aileron side. Watch the video of the guy winning the Valdez STOL contes test for the fourth time, notice he is using opposite aileron as the stalled wing drops to reduce the AOA on that side. The key to survival is to go in in control with the absolute minimum energy possible.
 
iRyan said:
Thanks all. I did my CFI training with him an we drilled emergency procedures like crazy. If he was t successful after all his fluid, how can I be since I don't fly nearly as often. I really hope he didn't spin it in.
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Crap Ryan, I'm very sorry for your loss.
 
I just flew out to there on Thursday for an animal rescue, such a congested area both airspace wise and terrain wise. This is something I fear on every flight and take off.
 
evapilotaz said:
I think I need more engine out practice with a CFI. Especially simulated engine out practice on takeoff. I don't want to be the one trying the impossible turn.
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I think about this all the time - an engine out on take off is, in my mind, one of the worst scenarios to deal with...at low altitude and airspeed you just don't have any real time to think.
 
evapilotaz said:
I think I need more engine out practice with a CFI. Especially simulated engine out practice on takeoff. I don't want to be the one trying the impossible turn.
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Practice is good. Also remember, above a certain altitude, the 'impossible turn' is not impossible. That varies for different aircraft. Decide on what altitude should be for your aircraft and drill that into your head. I am pretty confident that I could do the turn at 500' AGL in my Waco. Most other singles, I need more like 700-800.

Regardless of altitude, your first action should be to push the nose down. Then and only then, check the altimeter and make your decision. Don't let the shock of engine failure freeze your pitch attitude and take you into a stall/spin. That is almost always fatal.
 
I've thought about this a lot, how nice would it be to have an airport in the desert with nothing around for miles to be able to test real world scenarios safely. I practice in my simulator but that's a bit useless to real world for this type of scenario.
 
Ryan, it turns out I know him as well. It's horrible, I can't believe it. I saw him Thursday or Friday morning when I was taxiing. So sad.
 
I'm very sorry for your loss. Unfortunately, the longer you're in aviation, the more loss you will experience. I grew up in a flying family and learned this at an early age. It never gets easier. :(


Jim R
Collierville, TN

N7155H--1946 Piper J-3 Cub
N3368K--1946 Globe GC-1B Swift
N4WJ--1994 Van's RV-4
 
Sorry you lost a pal. That really hits hard.

I hate reading these on POA, but I take it as a reminder that what we're doing is a serious hobby, sport, or career or whatever you want to call it and it keeps me humble. Take these accidents and learn from them and use them to train more or study more and do better. That's the only positive thing you can do to make anything good out of these situations.

Take a break if you have to. When these things happen it shakes you up and creates doubt. Ground yourself for a week or two or more if you want to, because as PIC that's our mandate. Go fishing or whatever makes you happy for a change. :)
 
Henning said:
It wasn't Lou Betti was it?
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Wow, that's a name I haven't heard in a very long time. He was big in the flight sim community back when I was doing this stuff on a computer before flying real airplanes.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Practice is good. Also remember, above a certain altitude, the 'impossible turn' is not impossible. That varies for different aircraft. Decide on what altitude should be for your aircraft and drill that into your head. I am pretty confident that I could do the turn at 500' AGL in my Waco. Most other singles, I need more like 700-800.

Regardless of altitude, your first action should be to push the nose down. Then and only then, check the altimeter and make your decision. Don't let the shock of engine failure freeze your pitch attitude and take you into a stall/spin. That is almost always fatal.
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I think you meant to say "below". Totally agree...700' in my -10.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Practice is good. Also remember, above a certain altitude, the 'impossible turn' is not impossible. That varies for different aircraft. Decide on what altitude should be for your aircraft and drill that into your head. I am pretty confident that I could do the turn at 500' AGL in my Waco. Most other singles, I need more like 700-800.

Regardless of altitude, your first action should be to push the nose down. Then and only then, check the altimeter and make your decision. Don't let the shock of engine failure freeze your pitch attitude and take you into a stall/spin. That is almost always fatal.
Click to expand...

Mopauly said:
I've thought about this a lot, how nice would it be to have an airport in the desert with nothing around for miles to be able to test real world scenarios safely. I practice in my simulator but that's a bit useless to real world for this type of scenario.
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You can practice the maneuver. You do it at altitude. Set up a typical climb, chop the engine and try the turn and see how little altitude you can do it in.

A couple of things to keep in mind; engines rarely go from 100% power to 0%, you need to do more than 180 degrees to return to the runway but often not to return to a useful bit of airport property, a steeper than expected turn is required for optimal performance.

When I practiced this in the Maule I noted that pushing the nose over was not really required. Allowing the nose to fall was the key. At the same time, doing the turn requires pulling some g. Practice can be a real eye opener. I have to admit to not having gone up and practiced this in my '10.

The bottom line is that it's better to crash under control in a survivable area than to stall/spin trying to get back to the airport. Minimum energy, under control is the key.

None of this is to say that this is what happened at Caldwell.
 
I just realized I think I posted the link to the LiveATC recording of this into the "planned departures" thread.

I'm way behind on PoA threads and I'm sorry for the loss of someone here's friend.

Hopefully linking that audio into that thread wasn't in poor taste. Apologies if so.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Practice is good. Also remember, above a certain altitude, the 'impossible turn' is not impossible. That varies for different aircraft. Decide on what altitude should be for your aircraft and drill that into your head. I am pretty confident that I could do the turn at 500' AGL in my Waco. Most other singles, I need more like 700-800.
Click to expand...

Remember though that when you're practicing the impossible turn you're expecting it. When the real situation bites, there can be a higher delay before you realize what is going on. So if you're needed 700-800 feet when you're expecting it, you need to add another 100-200 feet to that to be safe. My personal rule is 1000 ft AGL even though I agree with you that most singles you can do it at 700-800 ft AGL, just to account for error or other issues due to workload or crosswinds or something else that is not ideal.
 
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