What has the FAA done to you?

Never had anything personally good or bad with the FAA. I just think the over-regulation of certified, privately-owned aircraft is making GA unnecessarily expensive. I think the benefits of ADS-B are great, the weather/traffic/etc, but I'd rather it be voluntary. I like the move to eliminate the Class III medical, but as a relatively young buck with zero health issues, I don't fear the trip to the AME.

At the very least, the FAA could take a step in the right direction by extending the recreational privileges using the driver's license standard while the PBR2 is being considered by congress. With the congress we've seen in past 6 years unable to do anything but name post offices, the PBR2 might be stuck for some time.
 
Made maintenance easier, like allowing battery replacement and relocation, shoulder belt addition, etc in AC43.13-2B. My last field approval a year ago was easier than the almost identical approval on my last plane 6 years ago.

Made medical certification easier, like with CACI regulations, relaxed restrictions on cardiac SIs, etc.

The FAA is less obstructive and less contentious now than they've ever been during my short 25 years of flying.

And for the record, the medical reform process is stuck in DOT, not FAA. PBR2 is stuck in Congress.

That seems to be a common misconception, that is of course, what's being held or messed up by Congress vs. the FAA. Seems that it's mostly the former.
 
[QUOTEWhat has the FAA done to you? No politics here, just specifically what actual experience(s) have you had to cause such disdain for the FAA?

The inspector at the GADO refused to sign the 337 form I brought in and accused me of poor maintenance work because I filled out the form with a pen and not a typewriter. He suggested my A&P license should be pulled because of that. Misunderstanding what he was saying I suggested he actually inspect the plane to insure it was a properly and safely done procedure he just laughed at me and said
" I don't give a g**d**M if the plane is safe, I want the paperwork done right!".
I made a comment that his loud voice was audible to all of the people in the office along with the other inspectors and that he should consider finding a new line of work since FAA was primarily concerned with aircraft safety and not paperwork. ( boy was I ever wrong). I wish small recorders had been around then. One of the other inspectors told him to sign the form and as I left the office he told me I should not bring any more forms in but to send them through an AI without my name on them. This was many years ago but I haven't seen any real change in attitude since then. I now go into a FSDO office and find that I'm locked in a tiny cubicle where I have to speak to an unseen person via intercom in order to pick up paperwork. If they're satisfied I'm not a terrorist they might send out a junior agent to speak to me. Otherwise I can pick up whatever forms I asked for in the drawer that pops out of a wall and wait for someone to unlock the door to get out. What a crock.....
Thats why there are bad feelings about the FAA.

Frank[/QUOTE]

It's true that the idea of customer service hasn't trickled down yet to many of the FAA FSDO folks and the people at OKC are really just out of touch. On the bright side, in NC, I've found that the folks at the Greensboro FSDO are generally pretty helpful. The day I did my initial CFI ride, they were downright cheery!
 
I now go into a FSDO office and find that I'm locked in a tiny cubicle where I have to speak to an unseen person via intercom in order to pick up paperwork. If they're satisfied I'm not a terrorist they might send out a junior agent to speak to me. Otherwise I can pick up whatever forms I asked for in the drawer that pops out of a wall and wait for someone to unlock the door to get out. What a crock.....
Thats why there are bad feelings about the FAA.

Frank

I've had the cubicle experience. But I try to separate the employees from the bureaucratic idiocy. I've never had a bad experience with an FAA employee in my 35+ years interactions with the agency. I've never gotten bad advice, encountered nastiness, or been treated with less than the respect I offered.

As for the agency itself... some of its rules are puzzling, and some of its interpretations even more so; but that can be said of any bureaucracy I've ever dealt with. At least with FAA someone usually answers the phone when you call, and either is competent to answer your question or can find someone who is.

Rich
 
The FAA medical process often seems to want you to spend a lot of money to prove a negative, which is, of course, impossible.
 
The FAA medical process often seems to want you to spend a lot of money to prove a negative, which is, of course, impossible.

I still haven't decided if I'm going to succumb to the fleecing necessary to get back into the air. I'm going to wait until the turn of the year on the drivers license medical thing, and if that doesn't pan out, white flag time.

I'll sell my share.
 
I find most guys who complain about the FAA are generally unfamiliar and unprepared for their interactions with the FAA. That's particularly true for aeromedical issues. Government regulations are easy to find and easy to read. Government agencies don't get to make up rules as they see fit. They have to go by the book. If a guy approaches them with that knowledge and is properly prepared things usually go pretty smoothly. That's certainly been true for me on the aeromedical side and the maintenance side.
 
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If a guy approaches the, with that knowledge and is properly prepared things usually go pretty smoothly.

I know what I need to do, I just don't know if I want to spend that much just to continue a hobby, one that I enjoy but my family mostly doesn't.

IOW, it might not be worth it anymore.
 
The FAA medical process often seems to want you to spend a lot of money to prove a negative, which is, of course, impossible.
Sometimes it's possible, sometimes it isn't. When it is, everyone is happy. When it isn't, one side is happy, the other is screwed, even if "negative" is the best judgement of the patient's current physician.

And I would bet that happens more often than the 3rd class defenders would like to admit.
 
I know what I need to do, I just don't know if I want to spend that much just to continue a hobby, one that I enjoy but my family mostly doesn't.

IOW, it might not be worth it anymore.

I understand. I'm not thrilled to have to deal with my SI twice a year and may opt to go Sport Pilot. For that category to exist is a big plus and the FAA gets my appreciation for that. The potential third class reform has made me unwilling to build an LSA airplane in hopes that the limitations may relax a bit but I'm not sure I can out-wait the DOT or Congess. Still, the rules are plainly stated and I understand exactly where I stand. As far as the FAAa regs being too strict? For the most part I hold myself and my equipment to a higher standard than the FAA requires. Minimum compliance isn't what I strive for.
 
I understand. I'm not thrilled to have to deal with my SI twice a year and may opt to go Sport Pilot.

I have two conditions that require a SI, and now possibly a third. I've already gone down the path of my alternative, and am now an H2 rated hang glider pilot and do nice joy ride flights off a local mountain. I may go and do a glider transition as well as there is a very good school nearby. (Chilowee Gliderport)

Most of my flying before the medical problem were just afternoon sightseeing rides, and the HG is great for that type of flying.
 
Same here. 15 years in the Navy and aside from armed watches on the ship and the renta-cops at the base gates, we've got very little protection.

In stand alone DoD civilian manned facilities (I work in a area without an actual base, but lots of military and civilian DoD employees), they put in a ton of force protection stuff following 9/11. We have anti-personnell fences, pop up vehicle gate blockers, guard shacks, single person turnstile gates, etc. At this point, most of it a just left open, but it is there. Bulletproof glass, OK, you got me there.

On military bases I visit, not so much. I guess the thought is that on base, you have some amount of "defense in depth".

At any rate, without being privy to the exact chain of command, I suspect that the FAA stuff was mandated form further up the chain than just the FAA and it's supposed to protect the crucial air transport system. It's my opinion based on my observations. Ignore it as you please.

John
 
First time I tried to get a medical after starting back on my Xanthine oxidase inhibitor I had to have a letter from my doctor discussing the dose, side effects, and what was being done to treat the side effects. OK, did it.

This last time the (very, very pretty) AME told me she'd been reamed by the FAA for being too lax, and not only did I have to have a letter from my doc saying all that stuff and that I had no reduction in mobility yada yada, but I had to have a bunch of blood work that went by initials one hears in medical shows. The one thing I KNOW none of that looked at was the blood uric acid level, which is the causative agent of gout.

I was told that (according to the FAA) I have two strikes against me with regards to sleep apnea. I have no knowledge of me snoring because I've never heard myself snore. Oh, and the only thing that really works on my allegies is verboten according to the FAA. Not verboten before flight, just verboten. I now have the choice to sneeze or lie.

With the new airplane I'm eyeing I'm going to have to go through this every two years even if medical reform passes, which it probably won't. What amazes me is I'm a relatively healthy if older man. I don't have hypertension or any of the other medical problems that plague other men my age. My only affliction is gout, and it isn't even debilitating, just painful.

Oh, and the thousands and thousands of dollars I'm going to have to spend that won't help me fly the airplane just because the FAA likes satellites and shiny boxes. Gee thanx.

If I had the sense Odin gave a rutabaga I'd just hang this whole thing up and buy better booze.
 
In stand alone DoD civilian manned facilities (I work in a area without an actual base, but lots of military and civilian DoD employees), they put in a ton of force protection stuff following 9/11. We have anti-personnell fences, pop up vehicle gate blockers, guard shacks, single person turnstile gates, etc. At this point, most of it a just left open, but it is there. Bulletproof glass, OK, you got me there.

On military bases I visit, not so much. I guess the thought is that on base, you have some amount of "defense in depth".

At any rate, without being privy to the exact chain of command, I suspect that the FAA stuff was mandated form further up the chain than just the FAA and it's supposed to protect the crucial air transport system. It's my opinion based on my observations. Ignore it as you please.

John
Too many variables. It depends on a lot of things - funding being a big one.

I currently work in a DoD building with 50/50 mix of active military and govt civilians. It is a Two-Star command. We are next to two bases, but outside of the fence line. We have no gate to pass through. Simply a front desk/quarterdeck (not even armed) and doors that you must swipe a badge to access. No bulletproof anything, with the possible exception of some of the brick work.

I have also been to a few FSDOs and while you typically have to make an appointment in advance, there was no hardened anything in their buildings or offices.

If there is some federal mandate - they clearly do not have the money to implement it across the organization.
 
I still haven't decided if I'm going to succumb to the fleecing necessary to get back into the air. I'm going to wait until the turn of the year on the drivers license medical thing, and if that doesn't pan out, white flag time.

I'll sell my share.

I wouldn't necessarily give up that quickly. The 3rd class reform is probably going to take a bit longer than that, unfortunately. And I sure hope it actually happens for the sake of GA.
 
As a contractor, FAA paid my salary for 4 years.
 
In stand alone DoD civilian manned facilities (I work in a area without an actual base, but lots of military and civilian DoD employees), they put in a ton of force protection stuff following 9/11. We have anti-personnell fences, pop up vehicle gate blockers, guard shacks, single person turnstile gates, etc. At this point, most of it a just left open, but it is there. Bulletproof glass, OK, you got me there.

On military bases I visit, not so much. I guess the thought is that on base, you have some amount of "defense in depth".

At any rate, without being privy to the exact chain of command, I suspect that the FAA stuff was mandated form further up the chain than just the FAA and it's supposed to protect the crucial air transport system. It's my opinion based on my observations. Ignore it as you please.

John

There's a difference between a FSDO (paper pushers & inspectors & such) and the TRACON/tower/enroute facilities where people are really managing airplanes. All that security, more than a locked door, at the FSDO makes no sense to me. But then, very little in the way of TSA/DHS security makes sense to me.
 
2006, Back Surgery and a 3rd Class Medical a few months later, with documentation and statements by Primary and AME (same guy) as to my fitness to fly and my mobility. In 2008, was deferred by my AME (different guy) for not previously reporting the surgery. I sent OKC a copy of my 2006 medical application showing the surgery, but OKC still wanted statements by my primary and the surgeon describing the procedure, and my fitness to fly. I had to drive 120 miles to see the surgeon, meet with my new primary, get documents from both, and after sending all this stuff to OKC and them saying they'd take a month or so, and not hearing from them for a month, I called. They said, oh yea, you're ok to fly, it was previously reported. Your medical is on the way. Total time grounded, 2 months.

2012, missed my annual by a day and requested a ferry permit. After getting the local A&P signoff and submitting the paperwork for the 6 mile flight to the A&P shop, the FSDO called and advised me that I had been flying my plane illegally for the past three years. It seems he reviewed all aircraft records and found a 337 that the A&P hadn't signed. I asked which one, and he told me (EDM-700). I looked in my files and told him that mine was signed. He told me that he was willing to overlook it this time, but I better not fly the plane till OKC had a signed copy in my files, "or else". So I was on the **** list because my IA forgot to sign the 337 he submitted to OKC?

These are two instances in less than 10 years giving examples of an out of control, tyrannical organization. I fly for the freedom it provides me. For me, the FAA is a constant threat to that freedom.
 
This stuff works better for my allergies than anything else I ever tried:

My allergies sneeze at your nettles. They sneer at any of the many folk remedies I've tried over the years at the behest of associates. There is exactly one thing that controls my allergies, and the FAA doesn't like it one teeny weeny little bit.

And I don't have any problems with my prostate or anything in the vicinity, thank you very much. :devil:
 
Government agencies don't get to make up rules as they see fit. They have to go by the book.

Unless they write a regulation that says they CAN make up rules as they see fit:

§67.313 General medical condition.

The general medical standards for a third-class airman medical certificate are:

(a) No established medical history or clinical diagnosis of diabetes mellitus that requires insulin or any other hypoglycemic drug for control.

(b) No other organic, functional, or structural disease, defect, or limitation that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on the case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the condition involved, finds

(1) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or

(2) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.

(c) No medication or other treatment that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on the case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the medication or other treatment involved, finds

(1) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or

(2) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.


[emphasis added]​
 
Government agencies don't get to make up rules as they see fit. They have to go by the book.
Hah! Are you aware of the rulemaking procedure? The FAA writes the rule, puts it out for comment. Usually ignores the comment. Publishes the final rule. Sometimes when they can't be bothered they go direct to final.
If a guy approaches them with that knowledge and is properly prepared things usually go pretty smoothly. That's certainly been true for me on the aeromedical side and the maintenance side.

Well not everybody has such a rosy picture as you.
 
You all know the old saying that the FAA isn't happy until you're not happy, right? That's a crock. Some of you guys are so determined to be unhappy that any agency will be the subject of your wrath. I don't have the time or inclination to sit around and whine about how the world doesn't revolve around me. I understand the FAA regs as I need to and I've dealt with them successfully. No sob stories here. I got my cardiac SI in the middle of a 3rd class medical period and never saw an AME. I took responsibility for my situation and saw the process through to the desired result. I dealt with several folks in the FAA along the way and have nothing but praise for all of them. The same can be said of the FSDO inspectors who saw me through a 3 year reconstruction of a very highly modified Cub. Nothing but praise. You can make fun of my attitude all you want. Tell the world I'm wrong. I don't really care. I've provided my honest opinion. That's all I have.
 
But all you have is a datapoint of one. You seem to be the exception to the rule. Others are not so lucky. What would suggest in Nick's case? Cut out his kidney?
 
I don't know Nick or his story. Can't comment. Wouldn't want to. My opinion is based on my experience. That's the only thing I can reflect upon with certainty.
 
But all you have is a datapoint of one. You seem to be the exception to the rule. Others are not so lucky. What would suggest in Nick's case? Cut out his kidney?

Out of curiosity, what is the issue in Nick's case? My dad had kidney stones a couple of times and has been able to maintain a 2nd class medical.

If Nick doesn't want to get into personal details, I understand, but I am curious why his case is a problem.
 
You all know the old saying that the FAA isn't happy until you're not happy, right? That's a crock. Some of you guys are so determined to be unhappy that any agency will be the subject of your wrath. I don't have the time or inclination to sit around and whine about how the world doesn't revolve around me. I understand the FAA regs as I need to and I've dealt with them successfully. No sob stories here. I got my cardiac SI in the middle of a 3rd class medical period and never saw an AME. I took responsibility for my situation and saw the process through to the desired result. I dealt with several folks in the FAA along the way and have nothing but praise for all of them. The same can be said of the FSDO inspectors who saw me through a 3 year reconstruction of a very highly modified Cub. Nothing but praise. You can make fun of my attitude all you want. Tell the world I'm wrong. I don't really care. I've provided my honest opinion. That's all I have.

OP asked for personal examples. I posted two and I think they are legitimate examples of overreach. When a law abiding citizen fears a government agency it should be seriously changed or abolished. So stating your opinion while calling others' "a crock" doesn't impress me much.
 
Out of curiosity, what is the issue in Nick's case? My dad had kidney stones a couple of times and has been able to maintain a 2nd class medical.

If Nick doesn't want to get into personal details, I understand, but I am curious why his case is a problem.

He'd have more details than me obviously, but even Doc C couldn't get him approved.
 
He told me the FAA is afraid they might recur even though he hasn't had an issue in years. How to you prove to the FAA something that might not ever happen will never happen?
 
Yeah, something like that. Oh, and kidney stones run in my family too. You guys make fun of my vegetarian ways...
 
My dad has had then, my uncle has had them, I fully expect to have them. I know what to expect, and I will not go in for them.

If there's no medical record, the FAA won't know. And that's what the FAA is promoting: don't go to your doctor, because we will **** you over.
 
He told me the FAA is afraid they might recur even though he hasn't had an issue in years. How to you prove to the FAA something that might not ever happen will never happen?

That's what I'm curious about. My dad had them, and had a recurrence, but was still able to get his medical re-issued. So, I'm wondering what is different about Nock's case other than when it occurred- my dad had his back in the late 80s/early 90s.
 
I don't know Nick or his story. Can't comment. Wouldn't want to. My opinion is based on my experience. That's the only thing I can reflect upon with certainty.

My story (Nick's) was posted on page 1 - the fun story about having a non-debilitating disorder ground me with no possible recourse.

Although, Ed may be onto something - if I donate that kidney to science, I wonder if the FAA would let me fly...
 
Out of curiosity, what is the issue in Nick's case? My dad had kidney stones a couple of times and has been able to maintain a 2nd class medical.

If Nick doesn't want to get into personal details, I understand, but I am curious why his case is a problem.

I don't mind at all!

I got kidney stones in 2011 (maybe 2012, I can't remember now). I went to the ER due to pain, and was admitted and drugged, and then they took a CT scan to determine that I had 3 stones, all fairly small in diameter. I passed two of them knowingly, caught in a strainer. Never passed the third, or didn't catch it. They were identified as being made of calcium oxalate, and I was given a diet that should help.

Went back 6 months later to get a clean bill of health, and the CT scan revealed that I had 2 stones. No problem, if they pass, I can get a clean scan in 90 days. Or, if they haven't moved, I can get an SI.

90 days later, I hadn't passed any stones, went in and got my CT scan, identified that I still had 2 stones, but they had moved, so no SI.

90 dayslater, still nothing, got another CT scan, identified that I had 2 stones, but they had moved, so no SI.

90 days later, still nothing, got another CT scan, identified that I now had 4 stones, no SI. At this point, I gave up for a few years.

In 2014, after still no pain or passing, I got another CT scan, identified that I now had 1 stone, so no SI.

Talked to the good Doc, and he said to get another CT scan, and that I could no longer do KUB since I had been using CT to diagnose. My urologist wrote on the Lab to only spell out changes if they were significant, since this was getting so silly. Unfortunately, they found 2 stones, and they were in a different place, so no go, no SI.

Bruce then said that I needed a nephrologist to work on my "Alkanization" to fix my problems. Had to fight my urologist who at this point was afraid that we were just chasing symptoms since there was no health risk (aside from the MASSIVE amount of radiation I had been exposed to), but he finally caved. My insurance would not cover nephrology, since they said it wasn't "medically necessary," and amounted to "quackism" compared to urology.

Fine, paid cash. But alkinization did not fix my issue, and I still have stones that are appearing randomly, and self dissolving, apparently. The only way I'll pass the CT scan at this point is if I happen to get it at the EXACT moment that my urine destroys the stones before my kidney produces another.

After that, there was nothing left to do. I haven't had a kidney stone attack since then. Even when I did, I was able to move around and was not disabled - I was in a LOT of pain, and I'm glad I got pain killers, but had I been in flight, I would not have been disabled. Regardless, since then, nothing aside from a small pain here and there that I can recognize is probably a stone, but have no way of knowing for sure.

But hey - at least I'm not a danger to flight, right?
 
If there's no medical record, the FAA won't know. And that's what the FAA is promoting: don't go to your doctor, because we will **** you over.
Sadly, that's the truth. And the problem is, there are some things that I won't defer a medical visit for, just to keep flying. One such happened this winter, required an emergency visit to an ophthalmologist. I was grounded for a few weeks, and now have a SI to show for it. That one actually makes sense, as long as they remove it after a couple of years of no complications or recurrences. But I picked up two more SIs along the way that are pure bureaucratic horsehockey, a leftover from my earlier days when I went to the doctor for any little thing and accumulated diagnoses like most people accumulate old clothes. The worst one is for something I probably never had but can't be disproved, and the FAA for whatever reason decided they need me to keep proving that I don't have it, after 10 years of letting it slide. The third is for a real condition but the idea that it has any significance to flying is so absurd it would be laughable if they weren't serious.

I'm happy for anyone that has an SI and is okay with it. If I just had the one recent one, I'd be okay with it. I hope it's clear though that some of us aren't so lucky.
 
Was working (volunteer)parking planes at the local airshow today they were kind enough to ramp check several of the planes that flew in.:rolleyes:
 
I don't mind at all!

I got kidney stones in 2011 (maybe 2012, I can't remember now). I went to the ER due to pain, and was admitted and drugged, and then they took a CT scan to determine that I had 3 stones, all fairly small in diameter. I passed two of them knowingly, caught in a strainer. Never passed the third, or didn't catch it. They were identified as being made of calcium oxalate, and I was given a diet that should help.

Went back 6 months later to get a clean bill of health, and the CT scan revealed that I had 2 stones. No problem, if they pass, I can get a clean scan in 90 days. Or, if they haven't moved, I can get an SI.

90 days later, I hadn't passed any stones, went in and got my CT scan, identified that I still had 2 stones, but they had moved, so no SI.

90 dayslater, still nothing, got another CT scan, identified that I had 2 stones, but they had moved, so no SI.

90 days later, still nothing, got another CT scan, identified that I now had 4 stones, no SI. At this point, I gave up for a few years.

In 2014, after still no pain or passing, I got another CT scan, identified that I now had 1 stone, so no SI.

Talked to the good Doc, and he said to get another CT scan, and that I could no longer do KUB since I had been using CT to diagnose. My urologist wrote on the Lab to only spell out changes if they were significant, since this was getting so silly. Unfortunately, they found 2 stones, and they were in a different place, so no go, no SI.

Bruce then said that I needed a nephrologist to work on my "Alkanization" to fix my problems. Had to fight my urologist who at this point was afraid that we were just chasing symptoms since there was no health risk (aside from the MASSIVE amount of radiation I had been exposed to), but he finally caved. My insurance would not cover nephrology, since they said it wasn't "medically necessary," and amounted to "quackism" compared to urology.

Fine, paid cash. But alkinization did not fix my issue, and I still have stones that are appearing randomly, and self dissolving, apparently. The only way I'll pass the CT scan at this point is if I happen to get it at the EXACT moment that my urine destroys the stones before my kidney produces another.

After that, there was nothing left to do. I haven't had a kidney stone attack since then. Even when I did, I was able to move around and was not disabled - I was in a LOT of pain, and I'm glad I got pain killers, but had I been in flight, I would not have been disabled. Regardless, since then, nothing aside from a small pain here and there that I can recognize is probably a stone, but have no way of knowing for sure.

But hey - at least I'm not a danger to flight, right?
I'm sorry to hear about your troubles, Nick. That sucks. Thank you for sharing though. I can definitely understand your frustration.

In hindsight, do you think there is anything (aside from not reporting it) that you or your doc could have done that would have made a difference later for the FAA, or was your case just unique?
 
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