62 year old with no savings?!

[denverpilot]

That's just plain insulting. Just because someone doesn't share your ideology doesn't mean there is something wrong with him.

Haha. You haven't read much of Jimmy nor FC have you?

Turn on the Spin Zone for a while and read and you'll see. It's way beyond "ideology" with both of them. Which isn't me saying that's a bad thing at all. Takes all kinds. But don't worry... totally normal for both.

 

[Clip4]

I met a guy today who is 62, working, living check to check and has no family, savings or pension. I was shocked at how calm he was. I wanted to offer him some advice, but all I kept thinking about was how many ways a person can eat cat food.

How would you advise him?

Intoduce him to a 87 year old friend of mine. Very wealthy, won't spend a dime, works 70'hours a week.

 

[Clark1961]

Takes all kinds.

Just because we have all kinds doesn't mean that it takes all kinds...

 

[denverpilot]

The new people these days seem to be VERY lazy. I see this everyday at my job. I have been at the same company for 23 years. I work 60 hours every week if overtime is available which it usually is. I have done this since the day I started here, plus I hussle doing side stuff. 90% of everyone else here can barely make a 40 hour week and complain daily that they are behind on bills.
They hate on me because I have airplanes, bikes, a boat etc.... I always tell them get off their lazy ass. I didn't get all this stuff overnight and nothing was handed to me.

It's interesting isn't it? I thought it was "lazy" too in some younger folks but it's more subtle than that.

They're very picky and choosey about which portions of the total pile of work that needs doing, that they'll tackle. And they're very risk-averse except when it comes to spending. They have that part down.

I think it's cultural. I grew up with folks who told me that doing some of the crap work just came with any job. I can't get my subordinate to do a hardware inventory at all, so we can plan for future upgrades, etc. He's always lived in the world of Amazon and two day free shipping and he doesn't care that the Controller needs it.

The concept of maintaining a set of spares for anything critical to the business just doesn't even ring a tiny bell with him as to how much less stress he'd have when something breaks or gets broken, ten minutes before his shift ends.

He wants me to hurry up and do his review and expects a raise. Frankly he does a pretty good job on customer service stuff but he will probably be surprised at some of my feedback on "willing to go the extra mile" which will probably be echoed by the VP. He's a solid guy. Just grew up in a different time I guess.

Also doesn't really seem to have any plans to grow. He points out that he is doing things he never did before and that's great, but those were just natural changes that happen in any job. I'm not sure he quite gets that gaining a significant enough new skill set to do something as an expert means more than just following instructions. He's old enough he makes fun of the "win a participation prize" generation, but he's not jumping through any brass hoops either.

Sad part is, I know he has plenty of brainpower and potential to learn some very valuable stuff and easily double his salary by leaving, if he went after it. Single. Could travel. Could consult. Could be a top expert on anything he applied himself to go become an expert at. Or a way above average IT generalist. The drive just isn't there yet. No idea if it ever will be.

 

[Henning]

There's always a way to make it. Money is not really necessary, that's the secret the markets dont want you to learn. Sounds like he already knows it.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

The new people these days seem to be VERY lazy. I see this everyday at my job. I have been at the same company for 23 years. I work 60 hours every week if overtime is available which it usually is. I have done this since the day I started here, plus I hussle doing side stuff. 90% of everyone else here can barely make a 40 hour week and complain daily that they are behind on bills.
They hate on me because I have airplanes, bikes, a boat etc.... I always tell them get off their lazy ass. I didn't get all this stuff overnight and nothing was handed to me.

Most do not get things handed to them. The majority work hard at whatever they are capable of doing. In the end after raising a family , trying to keep a house , unable to put away much , they finally become ill and are cleaned out by medical bills. It's a very common occurrence. (Tough to hustle when your ill. ) many people over 70 now work until they drop. This did not use to be the case. I've been retired for five years and have decent health. Not true of quite a few I've known who are either in bad shape financially or bad health or died broke. Nice people who worked hard. One, an airline pilot got screwed when eastern went bankrupt. . Flew for them 33 years, never missed a flight. Also flew in the navy , P2Vs over the North Atlantic. Deserved better. Lots of these story's.

 

[LDJones]

White-collar crime is the ticket to a nice retirement at a plush federal joint. All he needs to do is set up a Ponzi scheme, and he's home free.

Rich

That's probably the smartest advice. If he's good at it, his needs are met by scamming others. If he's not, his three hots and a cot are covered for the rest of his life.

 

[BillTIZ]

You didn't say what his social security check would be. My wife and I are 63, and we'll actually do better on social security and medicare advantage than on what we can keep after taxes and Obamacare now. Which means we can live quite comfortably. My major concern is long term care and making sure that I can pass down most of my assets to my daughter and grandson.

Most of your assets will be eaten up by long term care costs. Even long term care insurance, which is expensive, does not cover all and normally has a limit of about 3 to 3.5 yrs.

Most of your assets need to be transferred early to wnot get hit by the medicade financial review. If you or your wife goes into long term care first, the assets are split to protect the stay at home spouse, to include your Social Security income.

I am the trustee for an elderly couple. Their long term care, full time nursing home, was $236/day each. It goes up to $258/day each on 1 July. They are considered "self pay" as they HAD considerable cash assets. It will be gone by December, time to sell the house. When the cash is gone, there is nothing left to pass to their grandchildren and Medicade takes over.

Medicare only pays for the first 150 days in rehab (nursing care) if you are not making progress towards going back home, Medicare stops. Then you are on self pay.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Most of your assets will be eaten up by long term care costs. Even long term care insurance, which is expensive, does not cover all and normally has a limit of about 3 to 3.5 yrs.

Most of your assets need to be transferred early to wnot get hit by the medicade financial review. If you or your wife goes into long term care first, the assets are split to protect the stay at home spouse, to include your Social Security income.

I am the trustee for an elderly couple. Their long term care, full time nursing home, was $236/day each. It goes up to $258/day each on 1 July. They are considered "self pay" as they HAD considerable cash assets. It will be gone by December, time to sell the house. When the cash is gone, there is nothing left to pass to their grandchildren and Medicade takes over.

Medicare only pays for the first 150 days in rehab (nursing care) if you are not making progress towards going back home, Medicare stops. Then you are on self pay.

true.....
Long term care was dropped by many companys. The ones that remain are very very expensive. A sick child should also be mentioned. This is another way a family can be wiped out and not recover. The resulting problems often times lead to loss of a home, a divorce.etc. The 2007 disaster was a terrible loss for many hardworking family's.

 

[denverpilot]

Just because we have all kinds doesn't mean that it takes all kinds...

I tend to disagree. We actually do need a FEW total whack jobs to figure out where the ends of the bell curve are. Otherwise we might start to think the big boring blob in the middle has the only possible answers for everyone, and that'd be just sad.

We pilots as a group, compared to all humanity, are so far out in the skinny tip of one particular bell curve, and yet we take it for granted that our reality of piloting craft through the air as a regular activity is "normal", for example.

But society does need at least some pilots, for now anyway.

So it really does take all kinds. If there weren't any ideologies and crazy defenders of them, even though they're all utterly indefensible compared to reality, we wouldn't know there was something out there to strive for, against the reality of entropy and circumstance.

We just don't want the bell curve reversing. Folks start meeting in strange places humans usually don't bother going, with weapons, and lines drawn on maps, when that happens.

 

[Clark1961]

I tend to disagree. We actually do need a FEW total whack jobs to figure out where the ends of the bell curve are. Otherwise we might start to think the big boring blob in the middle has the only possible answers for everyone, and that'd be just sad.

We pilots as a group, compared to all humanity, are so far out in the skinny tip of one particular bell curve, and yet we take it for granted that our reality of piloting craft through the air as a regular activity is "normal", for example.

But society does need at least some pilots, for now anyway.

So it really does take all kinds. If there weren't any ideologies and crazy defenders of them, even though they're all utterly indefensible compared to reality, we wouldn't know there was something out there to strive for, against the reality of entropy and circumstance.

We just don't want the bell curve reversing. Folks start meeting in strange places humans usually don't bother going, with weapons, and lines drawn on maps, when that happens.

You're saying that we need mass murderers and despots. Nope. We don't.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

And we certainly don't need anymore art laffers with his nutty bel curve. A far out nut case.

 

[Subsea]

I firmly plan on dying in debt. Nothing to fight over. Many facets of my family have been ripped apart due to inheritance. The sad part is, they were all around $50,000 split amongst 5 or so people.

He who dies with the most debt...wins

 

[Old Geek]

Most of your assets will be eaten up by long term care costs. Even long term care insurance, which is expensive, does not cover all and normally has a limit of about 3 to 3.5 yrs.

Most of your assets need to be transferred early to wnot get hit by the medicade financial review. If you or your wife goes into long term care first, the assets are split to protect the stay at home spouse, to include your Social Security income.

I am the trustee for an elderly couple. Their long term care, full time nursing home, was $236/day each. It goes up to $258/day each on 1 July. They are considered "self pay" as they HAD considerable cash assets. It will be gone by December, time to sell the house. When the cash is gone, there is nothing left to pass to their grandchildren and Medicade takes over.

Medicare only pays for the first 150 days in rehab (nursing care) if you are not making progress towards going back home, Medicare stops. Then you are on self pay.

Well, you can't predict my future and neither can I. I've made it to 63 without ever putting on a hospital gown. Most of the males in my bloodline make it to their 70's then quickly drink themselves to death. Which is better than 10 years in a nursing home wearing a diaper.

 

[Warrior]

I met a guy today who is 62, working, living check to check and has no family, savings or pension. I was shocked at how calm he was. I wanted to offer him some advice, but all I kept thinking about was how many ways a person can eat cat food.

How would you advise him?

That cat food eating is for those who happen to like cat food. I am 62 and if I needed to not spend a lot of money on food I would consider the third world's staples, beans and rice.

I have wondered if the media tried to be dramatic a number of years ago talking about elderly eating cat food. In this country it is pretty easy to eat cheaply and I wouldn't include cat food in my cheap eating.

Also if I did need a little cash and was down on my luck and didn't want to work I am told that 200 a day is possible in a good location with a "will work for food" sign.

 

[mr_happyland]

The new people these days seem to be VERY lazy. I see this everyday at my job. I have been at the same company for 23 years. I work 60 hours every week if overtime is available which it usually is. I have done this since the day I started here, plus I hussle doing side stuff. 90% of everyone else here can barely make a 40 hour week and complain daily that they are behind on bills.
They hate on me because I have airplanes, bikes, a boat etc.... I always tell them get off their lazy ass. I didn't get all this stuff overnight and nothing was handed to me.

23 years of working 60 hours a week? That's not something that I personally want to strive for. Not choosing that lifestyle certainly doesn't make one lazy. Many don't strive to work their lives away in order to pay for all the debt that they rack up on planes, boats and bikes. Good on you if that is your goal, but don't assume all these people are "hatin' on you" because of that.

 

[weilke]

I have wondered if the media tried to be dramatic a number of years ago talking about elderly eating cat food. In this country it is pretty easy to eat cheaply and I wouldn't include cat food in my cheap eating.

If we have one thing its cheap food. There are certainly seniors who buy milk a pint at a time or pick up yesterdays bread at $.99 a loaf because their budget is limited. The bigger problem is that without a car, there is no access to cheap food. If the VanGo only stops at the CVS, you cant get to Walmart with the $3 generic prescriptions and the house-brand bulk foods.

 

[denverpilot]

You're saying that we need mass murderers and despots. Nope. We don't.

Hmm "need" isn't the right concept. "Inevitable" is. I can't find any history books where we didn't have plenty of them. I figure they aren't going away in my lifetime. Or ever. Some people are just born with broken brains.

I firmly plan on dying in debt. Nothing to fight over. Many facets of my family have been ripped apart due to inheritance. The sad part is, they were all around $50,000 split amongst 5 or so people.



He who dies with the most debt...wins

Heh. If that's your plan, consider attending college in your old age. Federal student loan debt is one of the only debts that's completely cleared upon death. Annoying the crap out of a few professors and making some kids laugh could be a fun retirement hobby. And public transport ALWAYS goes to colleges.

If we have one thing its cheap food. There are certainly seniors who buy milk a pint at a time or pick up yesterdays bread at $.99 a loaf because their budget is limited. The bigger problem is that without a car, there is no access to cheap food. If the VanGo only stops at the CVS, you cant get to Walmart with the $3 generic prescriptions and the house-brand bulk foods.

Don't know what a VanGo is but there's plenty of senior vans and short busses in the parking lots of WalMarts around here late mornings. I haven't seen any particular aversion to them going to WalMart anywhere, but there's a lot of WalMarts. Have you? It so that's fascinating. The ones around here just started delivery service, too. I've seen their trucks out here in the Styx getting utterly pounded by the dirt roads. I imagine they happily deliver to senior care living places where there's still pavement.

 

[RJM62]

I firmly plan on dying in debt. Nothing to fight over. Many facets of my family have been ripped apart due to inheritance. The sad part is, they were all around $50,000 split amongst 5 or so people.

He who dies with the most debt...wins

Not a bad strategy, actually, especially if you have some idea when you'll be checking out. Take out as many loans and credit cards as you can from the scummiest banks in the business, don't insure any of it, and then drop dead. With proper planning, you can enjoy your last days and stick it to the banking industry at the same time.

Rich

 

[jhausch]

I'm a bit torn on the whole "protecting assets" thing. I get that medical bills or LTC can "take it all", but why should taxpayers step in when the money was there but xferred before the claw back period?

There is a coming tide that I don't think can be fixed by any means other than a demographic shift through immigration.

 

[pigpenracing]

23 years of working 60 hours a week? That's not something that I personally want to strive for. Not choosing that lifestyle certainly doesn't make one lazy. Many don't strive to work their lives away in order to pay for all the debt that they rack up on planes, boats and bikes. Good on you if that is your goal, but don't assume all these people are "hatin' on you" because of that.

Not working to pay debt except my mortgage. My planes and toys are paid for..... If I wouldn't work extra hours I wouldn't have anything.
People can't seem to figure that out. Maybe you are in debt up to your ass trying to fly, not me
I would rather go to work early during the week and not lay on the couch. I got my weekends to play.

 

[FastEddieB]

And we certainly don't need anymore art laffers with his nutty bel curve. A far out nut case.

The demonization of the Laffer Curve, and it's author, has always struck me as odd.

In economics (as well as math and physics) data often plots along curves.

And once one establishes the end points - 0% tax rate and 100% tax rate - as producing essentially zero tax revenue, the fact that tax revenue at various points would end up plotted on a curve seems almost self-evident.

Good basic explanation here: https://youtu.be/fIqyCpCPrvU

I guess it liberals like to to focus on the "left" side of the curve - they cannot envision that raising tax rates beyond a certain point is counterproductive - they just imagine that there's always more revenue to be had by raising tax rates - normally with the provision "on the rich" or "on the top "x percent".

Like I said, just strikes me as odd, is all.

Finally, one reason I did not vote for Obama the first time was that when confronted with the idea that increasing tax rates could sometimes result in decreasing tax revenue, he responded, in effect, "Yes, but it's still only fair". Led me to believe he just did not "get" economics, and saw taxation as a way to bring "fairness" via redistribution.

 

[PaulS]

The demonization of the Laffer Curve, and it's author, has always struck me as odd.

In economics (as well as math and physics) data often plots along curves.

And once one establishes the end points - 0% tax rate and 100% tax rate - as producing essentially zero tax revenue, the fact that tax revenue at various points would end up plotted on a curve seems almost self-evident.

Good basic explanation here: https://youtu.be/fIqyCpCPrvU

I guess it liberals like to to focus on the "left" side of the curve - they cannot envision that raising tax rates beyond a certain point is counterproductive - they just imagine that there's always more revenue to be had by raising tax rates - normally with the provision "on the rich" or "on the top "x percent".

Like I said, just strikes me as odd, is all.

Finally, one reason I did not vote for Obama the first time was that when confronted with the idea that increasing tax rates could sometimes result in decreasing tax revenue, he responded, in effect, "Yes, but it's still only fair". Led me to believe he just did not "get" economics, and saw taxation as a way to bring "fairness" via redistribution.

As Jimmy has proven over and over again, math confounds many people.

 

[Gerhardt]

Not working to pay debt except my mortgage. My planes and toys are paid for..... If I wouldn't work extra hours I wouldn't have anything.
People can't seem to figure that out. Maybe you are in debt up to your ass trying to fly, not me
I would rather go to work early during the week and not lay on the couch. I got my weekends to play.

Between my regular job and my side business that I enjoy a lot 60-70 hours has been the norm for me for 18 years. It would be different if I didn't enjoy it. Sometimes on a rainy day when there's not much to do and nothing on tv I almost go batty just sitting in the recliner.

 

[Clark1961]

Showing a cartoon curve like that to a sophisticated reader does you more harm than good. Sure, you know the endpoints but the actual shape of the curve is undetermined.

 

[JOhnH]

Showing a cartoon curve like that to a sophisticated reader does you more harm than good. Sure, you know the endpoints but the actual shape of the curve is undetermined.

I believe that was to be assumed. Where would you place Tr-max? More to the left or more to the right? I believe more to the left (lots more to the left).

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

I work w/ a couple of people at my new gig that are going to be this 62 year old man.
well paid people in their late 30s-early 40s. When the pay schedule came out showing we would be paid in the rears and the first check would be 3-4 weeks in, 2 of these people were livid.

They were so mad they had to put bills on hold and one went to the recruiter's house to pick up her check the day before they would arrive to get it in the bank as quick as possible.

It is not my problem but I hadn't realized that even "well off" people are living paycheck to paycheck. There needs to be some emphasis on financial planning in schools. These two individuals are going to get to tome hard years later in life and not have a safety net.

 

[steingar]

I recall a show by Morgan Spurlock (he of Supersize Me) where he and his tony girlfriend tried to live on minimum wage for a month in my home town. Of course they couldn't do it, came close but couldn't make it due to the medical expenses (I doubt either had ever worked a day in their lives prior. I know I haven't).

What struck me was one of their coworkers, a very hard working, now elderly but entirely uneducated fellow. He said he hadn't had an increase in salary since the 70's. I can see a lot of people falling into this trap. And its only going to get worse.

I wouldn't eat dogfood though, its expensive. Bread is just flour, salt, yeast and water. I can make a week's food out of about $5 in ingredients. Easy ways to eat on a budget if you really need to.

 

[FastEddieB]

Showing a cartoon curve like that to a sophisticated reader does you more harm than good. Sure, you know the endpoints but the actual shape of the curve is undetermined.

Do you mean UNsophisticated?

Agreed it's an idealized representation. But we all know that, right?

 

[paflyer]

I kept thinking about was how many ways a person can eat cat food.

How would you advise him?

It's not too bad with ketchup.

 

[Bill]

It is not my problem but I hadn't realized that even "well off" people are living paycheck to paycheck. There needs to be some emphasis on financial planning in schools. These two individuals are going to get to tome hard years later in life and not have a safety net.

My Dad would have some of his workers ask him about retirement, savings, etc. He was shocked at the number of successful mid 40's people that barely had $500 cash to their name. Yes, they lived in the $350k house and drove the leased BMW's, but it was all smoke and mirrors as they were hand to mouth. He told them about the total lifestyle change they would have to make if they wanted to catch up in the 20 years or so they had to work, but most wouldn't do it. They want to live large. Oh well.

 

[Henning]

You're saying that we need mass murderers and despots. Nope. We don't.

No, we don't, but we want a society that creates them as a natural byproduct, so either we have them, or we have to change our social structure to a more effective and humane one. Most mass murderers and despots are created, not born.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

My Dad would have some of his workers ask him about retirement, savings, etc. He was shocked at the number of successful mid 40's people that barely had $500 cash to their name. Yes, they lived in the $350k house and drove the leased BMW's, but it was all smoke and mirrors as they were hand to mouth. He told them about the total lifestyle change they would have to make if they wanted to catch up in the 20 years or so they had to work, but most wouldn't do it. They want to live large. Oh well.

That's these people exactly.
I have heard the phrase "I will only drive a BMW or Mercedes" from one of them. The other mentions her 60k car frequently. Panicked at having to go 2 weeks w/o a check. And they have kids

 

[Clark1961]

Do you mean UNsophisticated?

Agreed it's an idealized representation. But we all know that, right?

No, I wrote what I meant. It's not an "idealized" representation, it is a cartoon. Cartoons are to be laughed at and in this case it is a deliberate mis-representation of the tax revenue curve. Show facts or show nothing.

 

[Henning]

The demonization of the Laffer Curve, and it's author, has always struck me as odd.

In economics (as well as math and physics) data often plots along curves.

And once one establishes the end points - 0% tax rate and 100% tax rate - as producing essentially zero tax revenue, the fact that tax revenue at various points would end up plotted on a curve seems almost self-evident.

Good basic explanation here: https://youtu.be/fIqyCpCPrvU

I guess it liberals like to to focus on the "left" side of the curve - they cannot envision that raising tax rates beyond a certain point is counterproductive - they just imagine that there's always more revenue to be had by raising tax rates - normally with the provision "on the rich" or "on the top "x percent".

Like I said, just strikes me as odd, is all.

Finally, one reason I did not vote for Obama the first time was that when confronted with the idea that increasing tax rates could sometimes result in decreasing tax revenue, he responded, in effect, "Yes, but it's still only fair". Led me to believe he just did not "get" economics, and saw taxation as a way to bring "fairness" via redistribution.

If that graph is accurate, then why does does the historic record show otherwise? Look at reality and tax rates from WWII to present.

 

[CharlieTango]

Gee, this thread describes me. I'm 62, no savings, no pension, lost my house to foreclosure, now living hand to mouth.

I'm a high school drop out but managed to make a few million dollars by contracting and with a web site.

My ex wife was a thief and the third district court of appeals (CA) ruled that I had to pay my ex and her new lawyer husband $4k/month in spousal support and it did not terminate upon her remarriage. The amount did not reduce with reductions in my income either, the court ruled that the recession was all in my head.

The housing bubble bursting meant my income went from high to nothing and in 7 years I have now recovered only 25% of my income. The guys that work for me are up to 50% of what they made 7 years ago.

People that I was in business with stole all they could. A brother in law used my services for 7 months. I re-wrote his web site called the National Equity Exchange that failed upon initial launch. I sued in superior court but the Las Angeles Judge ruled against me and that event cleaned out every last penny and left me in debt.

Now I'm old and broke and a renter trying to get out of debt before I retire on social security when I'm 70. Last year I bought a spray foam rig and my income is growing but it will take years to recover and my health doesn't permit me to work so hard anymore.

Stuff happens.

I'm all ears, what's the advice?

 

[RoscoeT]

The US can't compete due to over regulation by liberals!

Whatever makes you feel more righteous. This is not a partisan issue, you are just a partisan zealot. Yep, those bleeding heart liberals are why the FAA regs are what they are. People who are extremely partisan and hateful toward the "other side" have been duped by a political system that has convinced folks that there is an real difference between the two parties. Fake outrage and posturing by politicians does seem to rally the lemmings though.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Gee, this thread describes me. I'm 62, no savings, no pension, lost my house to foreclosure, now living hand to mouth.

I'm a high school drop out but managed to make a few million dollars by contracting and with a web site.

My ex wife was a thief and the third district court of appeals (CA) ruled that I had to pay my ex and her new lawyer husband $4k/month in spousal support and it did not terminate upon her remarriage. The amount did not reduce with reductions in my income either, the court ruled that the recession was all in my head.

The housing bubble bursting meant my income went from high to nothing and in 7 years I have now recovered only 25% of my income. The guys that work for me are up to 50% of what they made 7 years ago.

People that I was in business with stole all they could. A brother in law used my services for 7 months. I re-wrote his web site called the National Equity Exchange that failed upon initial launch. I sued in superior court but the Las Angeles Judge ruled against me and that event cleaned out every last penny and left me in debt.

Now I'm old and broke and a renter trying to get out of debt before I retire on social security when I'm 70. Last year I bought a spray foam rig and my income is growing but it will take years to recover and my health doesn't permit me to work so hard anymore.

Stuff happens.

I'm all ears, what's the advice?

That's a whole different ball of wax. You got screwed repeatedly it seems.
The folks I see headed that way are currently screwing their future selves by not capitalizing on what they are able to earn now. I haven't lost everything so I don't know how one recovers from that.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Stoicism is the answer. Course there is no GDP growth with stoicism, so don't tell anybody. Forget you read all that. Now get back to work, there is a woman somewhere that wants a new trinket for her suburban castle. And a banker that will loan you the money to buy it.

 

[paflyer]

And we certainly don't need anymore art laffers with his nutty bel curve. A far out nut case.

Laffer isn't a bell curve.

How is Laffer any nuttier than Krugman?