Pros/Cons of Joining the Civil Air Patrol?

You gotta go visit. As much as I bash CAP, and as much as they deserve it, there are good wings doing good work(or at least not bad work.) So yeah go visit all the ones within what you consider reasonable travel time. Keep an open mind but don't be fooled if it smells like a bunch of wankers it is a bunch of wankers.
 
JimNtexas said:
There are several CAP squadrons in central Texas. What would be the best way figure out where they fit on the scale of 'private cosplay flying club for old geezers ' to 'dedicated volunteers performing valuable public service involving airplanes'?
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Go to a few meetings and talk to them. If you get a bad vibe from one unit, go to another.

Experience tells me that if they're called a "Senior Squadron" then they're more likely to be flight-focused, and less into the mickey-mouse, than Cadet or Composite Squadrons. Although Senior Squadrons sometimes devolve into GOB Flying Clubs too, so like I said, go talk to folks and get a feel for the unit "culture".
 
Air Force Cosplay... I'm going to reuse that, quality material there.
 
N801BH said:
Ha... Not the Jackson Wy Squadron... You show up, have 51 dollars. go the police station for finger printing, listen to all the wonderful bullsiht they feed you.... and

You will turn blue before they let you fly in their "Private" aircraft..

Ps... If you are retired military, then skip all the required steps and move straight into the left seat.... IMHO..


Been there, done that, been fed the kool aid.. Got over it...:rolleyes:
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Your complaints are about a local squadron. In both wings/squadrons I have been a member of, people were nothing but supportive and generous with their time in getting additional pilots qualified and set up to fly the wings planes. I am currently not 'form 5 current', but that is the result of my work schedule, not the fault of anyone at CAP. Until I get another form5 done, I fly with the local cap cfi. Getting the plane (a 2010 182T) is as simple as calling the FBO to pull it. Most of the flying our squadron does are state and locally funded photo missions during flood season and non-aviation SAR. Missing planes are just not that common.
 
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JeffDG said:
Yep...the only time I use any uniform that shows rank is when it's mandatory, otherwise nope. I think most people in my squadron don't own uniforms that show rank (I just need it for wing stuff from time to time)
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Agreed. Talking with some folks in the Midwest they seem to give it more importance.

Anyone need a couple of white epaulet shirts? I had to wear them for Wing meetings so they've maybe been worn five times each.

Save someone some bucks if they want them.

Taking up space in the closet.
 
There is a saying that an aircraft is not ready for flight until the paperwork exceeds the weight of the aircraft - and that 9/10ths of flying happens on the ground.

When it comes to the CAP, both of those sayings are admirably honored.
 
Just checked the local CAP website in Mesa, AZ... Their last SAR was June looking for a crashed aircraft near Page Az
 
Scrabo said:
Just checked the local CAP website in Mesa, AZ... Their last SAR was June looking for a crashed aircraft near Page Az
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Technically, this is not a bad thing (TM)... unless you're rooting for crashing. :)
 
denverpilot said:
Agreed. Talking with some folks in the Midwest they seem to give it more importance.

Anyone need a couple of white epaulet shirts? I had to wear them for Wing meetings so they've maybe been worn five times each.

Save someone some bucks if they want them.

Taking up space in the closet.
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What size? I'm about due for another.
 
One benefit no one appears to have mentioned is that the CAP Form 5 (presuming you can get one) counts as your OpenAirplane check flight, so you can go to any OpenAirplane participating FBO and rent a comparable aircraft without needing to get checked out again. Certainly not enough to justify joining CAP, but it's a PRO! :)
 
gprellwitz said:
One benefit no one appears to have mentioned is that the CAP Form 5 (presuming you can get one) counts as your OpenAirplane check flight, so you can go to any OpenAirplane participating FBO and rent a comparable aircraft without needing to get checked out again. Certainly not enough to justify joining CAP, but it's a PRO! :)
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If you link your FAA safety stuff with WMIRS (unless they changed this with the new WMIRS - I have no idea), the Form 5 can also count toward currency via WINGS.
 
denverpilot said:
If you link your FAA safety stuff with WMIRS (unless they changed this with the new WMIRS - I have no idea), the Form 5 can also count toward currency via WINGS.
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Actually now that I think about it the link was to eServices not WMIRS.
 
I have found that the F5 credit for wings is not automatic and has to be validated by the cfi check pilot. What IS automated is CAP safety education credit for wings activity.

I could be wrong and if I am let me know. Would be nice.
 
denverpilot said:
Actually now that I think about it the link was to eServices not WMIRS.
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5 out of the 6 "credits" needed for a WINGS phase. Just need a 1 hour powerpoint to skip a flight review.

And no "link" needed. You enter it just like any other Wings activity, and the check pilot approves it.

The link is so FAA Safety items you do flow back into CAP and count for safety training in CAP.
 
JeffDG said:
5 out of the 6 "credits" needed for a WINGS phase. Just need a 1 hour powerpoint to skip a flight review.



And no "link" needed. You enter it just like any other Wings activity, and the check pilot approves it.



The link is so FAA Safety items you do flow back into CAP and count for safety training in CAP.
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Nah, there was a field you could fill in on eServices with your Wings ID info that would push eServices data straight into Wings also, I thought, without having to do double data entry in the other direction.

Or maybe I'm remembering it wrong. Anyway... Like you've said, stuff counts for both.
 
denverpilot said:
Nah, there was a field you could fill in on eServices with your Wings ID info that would push eServices data straight into Wings also, I thought, without having to do double data entry in the other direction.

Or maybe I'm remembering it wrong. Anyway... Like you've said, stuff counts for both.
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Which brings up another good reason I am leaving the CAP....

Seems last year they hired a bunch of idiots to redo their website....

For months they praised it as better then sliced bread... Then the roll out,:yikes::hairraise:...

Followed by what seems like millions of emails from national on how this function needed a tweak, or that function that needed to be done the old way till the "new" patch was installed..:mad2::mad2::mad2:..

Who in the hell did they contract with to do the website overhaul ?:dunno:..

Probably the same crooks who did the spectacular Obamacare PPACA site..:redface::redface::redface:.. And it probably cost the U.S Airforce 100 million dollars too...:eek:
 
gprellwitz said:
One benefit no one appears to have mentioned is that the CAP Form 5 (presuming you can get one) counts as your OpenAirplane check flight, so you can go to any OpenAirplane participating FBO and rent a comparable aircraft without needing to get checked out again. Certainly not enough to justify joining CAP, but it's a PRO! :)
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Hi Grant! Figured I'd throw you a quick shout out!

..now back to regularly scheduled forum...
 
N801BH said:
Which brings up another good reason I am leaving the CAP....

Seems last year they hired a bunch of idiots to redo their website....

For months they praised it as better then sliced bread... Then the roll out,:yikes::hairraise:...

Followed by what seems like millions of emails from national on how this function needed a tweak, or that function that needed to be done the old way till the "new" patch was installed..:mad2::mad2::mad2:..

Who in the hell did they contract with to do the website overhaul ?:dunno:..

Probably the same crooks who did the spectacular Obamacare PPACA site..:redface::redface::redface:.. And it probably cost the U.S Airforce 100 million dollars too...:eek:
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On that we are in full agreement.

Personally, they would have gotten a far better product in much less time if they had just published specs, and gotten some of their volunteers to run the project with the huge number of IT professionals in the ranks. Unfortunately NHQ has a serious case of Not-Invented-Here syndrome for things we cobble together in the field.
 
N801BH said:
Which brings up another good reason I am leaving the CAP....

Seems last year they hired a bunch of idiots to redo their website....

For months they praised it as better then sliced bread... Then the roll out,:yikes::hairraise:...

Followed by what seems like millions of emails from national on how this function needed a tweak, or that function that needed to be done the old way till the "new" patch was installed..:mad2::mad2::mad2:..

Who in the hell did they contract with to do the website overhaul ?:dunno:..

Probably the same crooks who did the spectacular Obamacare PPACA site..:redface::redface::redface:.. And it probably cost the U.S Airforce 100 million dollars too...:eek:
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They've done that -- change systems - every few years since I first joined in 1992. In one respect I was happy it was all online instead of the mountains of paper they once used -- when I re-upped a few years ago. Whoever is in charge of that stuff is delusional that Internet will be available at all locations during disaster work, however, and it needs to be designed for both online and offline-with-sync capabilities, though.

Guess it won't matter for me. Membership lapsed when the clock struck midnight last night.
 
denverpilot said:
They've done that -- change systems - every few years since I first joined in 1992. In one respect I was happy it was all online instead of the mountains of paper they once used -- when I re-upped a few years ago. Whoever is in charge of that stuff is delusional that Internet will be available at all locations during disaster work, however, and it needs to be designed for both online and offline-with-sync capabilities, though.

Guess it won't matter for me. Membership lapsed when the clock struck midnight last night.
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My membership runs out at the end of this month...

I REALLY tried to fit in and play their assinine games but I am just not cut out for multiple layers of redundant bullsiht...
 
N801BH said:
My membership runs out at the end of this month...

I REALLY tried to fit in and play their assinine games but I am just not cut out for multiple layers of redundant bullsiht...
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Bureaucratic BS has always been a problem, and isn't getting better, that's for sure.

On the positive side, for what it's worth, here is some info from NHQ:

CAP Members were able to accomplish so much last year. Here are just a few highlights:
CAP members flew 619 search and rescue missions and 1,053 missions for individual states. CAP was credited with 44 lives saved and 407 finds. In the aftermath of the Oklahoma Tornadoes, CAP ground teams photographed 13,000 home sites and other properties in Moore, where a monstrous EF5 tornado caused the most devastation.

The Cadet Program continues to offer over 24,000 cadets a program that instills the organization’s core values of respect, integrity, volunteer service and excellence. The opportunity to fly is a major attraction for cadets and CAP delivered with 32,893 cadet orientation flights (some received more than one flight).

The Aerospace Education program in CAP continues to offer more than 30 free aerospace education products and programs designed to generate interest in STEM careers for over 24,000 cadets and 250,000 K-12 students nationwide. More than 20,000 youth in 28 states are K-6 Aerospace Connections in Education (ACE) program kids.
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I am in my first year of membership and stopped going a couple months ago. It's just not what I'm interested in. The amount of crap to get in the air is ridiculous. If I was retired, I'd stick with it though. But as a working man with a family, I'm not interested in all the petty little crap that happens. Nothing big, just petty stuff that some guys get all fired up about. I did my time in the Armed Forces. Hanging around a bunch of people who THINK they are in the Air Force just irritates me too......It's just a half-as sed quasi-military style retirement club in my opinion.
 
Palmpilot said:
Bureaucratic BS has always been a problem, and isn't getting better, that's for sure.

On the positive side, for what it's worth, here is some info from NHQ:
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Quote:
CAP Members were able to accomplish so much last year. Here are just a few highlights:
CAP members flew 619 search and rescue missions and 1,053 missions for individual states. CAP was credited with 44 lives saved and 407 finds. In the aftermath of the Oklahoma Tornadoes, CAP ground teams photographed 13,000 home sites and other properties in Moore, where a monstrous EF5 tornado caused the most devastation.

The Cadet Program continues to offer over 24,000 cadets a program that instills the organization’s core values of respect, integrity, volunteer service and excellence. The opportunity to fly is a major attraction for cadets and CAP delivered with 32,893 cadet orientation flights (some received more than one flight).

The Aerospace Education program in CAP continues to offer more than 30 free aerospace education products and programs designed to generate interest in STEM careers for over 24,000 cadets and 250,000 K-12 students nationwide. More than 20,000 youth in 28 states are K-6 Aerospace Connections in Education (ACE) program kids.

Personally I don't believe one bit of their numbers as they are cooked up to favor their mission and keep the funding coming in....

For Instance....

We are a small squadren, in a small state and the they will use some VERY creative methods of crediting themselves with "saves" and "finds"...

Case in point...

A local oldtimer here built a Zenith 701, he has /had a small strip next to a highway that comes into Jackson.. He stalls it on take off and crash lands it...

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.a...-2562-4b8d-87bc-3bedddf13e33&pgno=1&pgsize=50


A motorist driving by sees that and calls it into the sheriff's office.. The radio call goes out and they roll some equipment / Firetruck /Rescue truck etc etc...

One of the leading members in this squadren is at home having a BBQ, she is also the fire marshal so she hears the radio call..

By the time equipment shows up the pilot has already started to clean up the mess and promptly kicks the responders OFF his property.. It got kinda western there for a few minutes.. By now the CAP member /fire marshal had put her BBQ on the back burner, hopped in her county vehicle and showed up on the scene... All equipment returns to base, the CAP member goes back to her BBQ..

At the next months squadren meeting the topic comes up on how to rate the "incident".... They filed with national that is was a "FIND" to boost their image and get credit with them and the local sheriff,,,,, who pay for all expenses so the local CAP plane doesn't cost any members here a dime to fly...

In closing, I will say it again......

I don't believe a friggin thing the CAP says...:nonod::nonod::nonod:
 
After the Moore tornado there were some CAP kids helping with clean up efforts so that's semi legitimate. What bothered me about it was their leader dressed up walking around getting pictures taken of him instead of putting on some work gloves and helping out. Not sure taking pictures of people homes destroyed provided any real benefit.
 
OkieAviator said:
After the Moore tornado there were some CAP kids helping with clean up efforts so that's semi legitimate. What bothered me about it was their leader dressed up walking around getting pictures taken of him instead of putting on some work gloves and helping out. Not sure taking pictures of people homes destroyed provided any real benefit.
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Typical "window dressing" to make it look like they are REALLY needed..:mad2::mad2::mad2:..

Ps... Anyone got the date on the Moore event / tornado ?
 
Some folks here seem fired up about the WMIRS update. What you may not know is that, due to WMIRS not really being kept up with changing technology, FEMA interop requirements, and USAF evaluation guidelines, wings and regions were rolling their own tracking systems. Frankly, that speaks to a serious need to upgrade CAP's systems.

I work in the "business software" industry, and let me tell you, CAP is actually doing this one right. They rolled out software quickly, reacted to feedback from the field, and release new features and fixes damn near every week.. For those in the know, it is clearly being run like a professional agile project. People who grumble about it just don't understand how bad it would have been had they gathered requirements for a year and spent two years developing a replacement system. I have seen them do that too, and it was a disaster. Figure someone at NHQ IT has been reading trade mags for once :)
 
OkieAviator said:
May 20th 2013.
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If the CAP Press release was for 2013 and issued last year.. Then the date jives.......

If the press release was for 2014, then their glory is cooked up...:dunno::dunno::mad2:

Quote:
CAP Members were able to accomplish so much last year. Here are just a few highlights:
CAP members flew 619 search and rescue missions and 1,053 missions for individual states. CAP was credited with 44 lives saved and 407 finds. In the aftermath of the Oklahoma Tornadoes, CAP ground teams photographed 13,000 home sites and other properties in Moore, where a monstrous EF5 tornado caused the most devastation.

The Cadet Program continues to offer over 24,000 cadets a program that instills the organization’s core values of respect, integrity, volunteer service and excellence. The opportunity to fly is a major attraction for cadets and CAP delivered with 32,893 cadet orientation flights (some received more than one flight).

The Aerospace Education program in CAP continues to offer more than 30 free aerospace education products and programs designed to generate interest in STEM careers for over 24,000 cadets and 250,000 K-12 students nationwide. More than 20,000 youth in 28 states are K-6 Aerospace Connections in Education (ACE) program kids.
 
It was sent yesterday, and since 2014 wasn't over yet, and they wouldn't have had complete stats for that year yet, "last year" probably refers to 2013.
 
ChrisK said:
Some folks here seem fired up about the WMIRS update. What you may not know is that, due to WMIRS not really being kept up with changing technology, FEMA interop requirements, and USAF evaluation guidelines, wings and regions were rolling their own tracking systems. Frankly, that speaks to a serious need to upgrade CAP's systems.

I work in the "business software" industry, and let me tell you, CAP is actually doing this one right. They rolled out software quickly, reacted to feedback from the field, and release new features and fixes damn near every week.. For those in the know, it is clearly being run like a professional agile project. People who grumble about it just don't understand how bad it would have been had they gathered requirements for a year and spent two years developing a replacement system. I have seen them do that too, and it was a disaster. Figure someone at NHQ IT has been reading trade mags for once :)
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No, they did not do it right.

I was involved in the beta for the new WMIRS. A bunch of issues were glossed over at the start as "we'll be adding these to the test over the course of the beta for testing"

Guess what? None of them were rilled out for testing. Instead of putting off the GO LIVE date, they just threw the switch and went ahead, with most of the required features either not available, or so buggy as to be unusable...still.
 
JeffDG said:
No, they did not do it right.

I was involved in the beta for the new WMIRS. A bunch of issues were glossed over at the start as "we'll be adding these to the test over the course of the beta for testing"

Guess what? None of them were rilled out for testing. Instead of putting off the GO LIVE date, they just threw the switch and went ahead, with most of the required features either not available, or so buggy as to be unusable...still.
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Oh I was in the beta too. I might say that certain personalities were unusually overriding and that the product we got was something less than what we needed, but I can't blame the IT staff. They are continuing to do good work.

Note that I am seriously annoyed at the lack of reporting and the silly lack of defaulting and the missing ajax refreshes so don't think that I am a huge apologist. I just appreciate what it takes to put software in front of users and prioritize feedback.

We ran a mission go-live weekend and I did the ES/WMIRS presentation at our conference two weeks later so I really am familiar with what is lacking. I just am amazed at how often they release. It is impressive.
 
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ChrisK said:
I have seen them do that too, and it was a disaster. Figure someone at NHQ IT has been reading trade mags for once :)
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So rolling out something half-baked is now the industry standard ?
 
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