I knew it was moderate turb when...

TazzyTazzy said:
I hope not to thread hi-jack to much...I mean, with all the ball crushing going on and all.

I'm a new PPL in Sacramento. I've always flown in great weather. I've only experienced what I guess experienced pilots would call mild/no turbulence.

How to describe what the plane can handle? If I were to watch a video, it would be hard to tell since even smooth flights seem crazy turbulent due to the person bouncing around with their cell phone cameras. However, does anyone have any good youtube vids to check out that show this? Do thinks really become eye level as noted above?

I guess what I should say/ask...What is a good method to experience this? I was trying to get a CFI to go up to lake tahoe, but the weather never behaves on the weekends i'm free to go; maybe i'll experience some there.
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Hi there,

From SAC here as well. I took one of my first cross country solos over to KSTS (Santa Rosa) during a gusty day. The bumpiness was pretty bad around Calistoga and Pope Valley. Almost had a tear roll down my cheek because I was so uncomfortable...but at that point I was closer to Santa Rosa so I decided to push forward. The turbulence got significantly better as I flew past the mountain range.

The worst turbulence I've encountered was on board a United Airlines 777. However (for me at least), being in control of your own airplane during turbulence is significantly more stressful that riding it out in the back of an airliner.
 
I'm also in the Sac area. A trip to Clear Lake will almost always shake you up some in the summer. The worst continuous ass-kicking I've received was following highway 98 down through Oregon. The mountain wave was pushing me up and down 1000 feet at at time. For over hour.

Also fun is hitting the occasional invisible dust devil on final.
 
Henning said:
The pilot waggled the tail harder than it could take thinking the FBW box would limit the command, but he was in an operating regime where it didn't.
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If you're referring to AA587 why do you think the pilot thought 'the FBW box would limit' when the airplane, an A300-600 didn't have FBW for the directional axis (i.e. the rudder)?

AA's upset training prior to this accident emphasized using the rudder to counter rolls but didn't teach that cyclic inputs (reversing the pedal inputs) would lead to larger sideslip angles than a steady input. The airloads from the sideslip overshoots caused the tail to fail. Not FBW, not control limiters 'turning off'. Upset training was changed afterwards.

Nauga,
who actually reads the reports
 
TazzyTazzy said:
I hope not to thread hi-jack to much...I mean, with all the ball crushing going on and all.

I'm a new PPL in Sacramento. I've always flown in great weather. I've only experienced what I guess experienced pilots would call mild/no turbulence.

How to describe what the plane can handle? If I were to watch a video, it would be hard to tell since even smooth flights seem crazy turbulent due to the person bouncing around with their cell phone cameras. However, does anyone have any good youtube vids to check out that show this? Do thinks really become eye level as noted above?

I guess what I should say/ask...What is a good method to experience this? I was trying to get a CFI to go up to lake tahoe, but the weather never behaves on the weekends i'm free to go; maybe i'll experience some there.
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Get an accelerometer for your plane, it's all about g-loading, stall, breaking the airplane, doing perfect 60° steep turns... Accelerometer help you with them all with its data, and it's cheap. I never understood why they only put them in aerobatic planes.:dunno: G and AoA information is really nifty to have.
 
nauga said:
If you're referring to AA587 why do you think the pilot thought 'the FBW box would limit' when the airplane, an A300-600 didn't have FBW for the directional axis (i.e. the rudder)?

AA's upset training prior to this accident emphasized using the rudder to counter rolls but didn't teach that cyclic inputs (reversing the pedal inputs) would lead to larger sideslip angles than a steady input. The airloads from the sideslip overshoots caused the tail to fail. Not FBW, not control limiters 'turning off'. Upset training was changed afterwards.

Nauga,
who actually reads the reports
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Ugg, So it wasn't an FBW, then I can't figure an excuse for him. I'm almost positive though there is a control limiter function between flight regimes that gives the pilot greater rudder authority.
 
When you guys have flown in this really bad turbulence was there always an Airmet out for it or did it come as a surprise?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I have heard Vegas is a great place to get knocked around.
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Back in the mid 90's, I took one of my first visits to Vegas, and was on a commercial flight into McCarran. The crew had warned the passengers to expect turbulence as we descended.

It was the only commercial flight I can remember where I had the white-knuckle death-grip on the armrest. They tried to land once, ended up aborting and then trying again.

On the second attempt, they aborted and one of the flight crew announced over the intercom that we were being diverted to Palm Springs. He apologized but said the winds were so bad "his hairs on the back of his neck were standing up" (he actually said that to us). I think they closed the airport right after our attempt.

In Palm Springs, the airline bused people to Vegas, but I rented a car and drove myself. When I got to Vegas, all anybody there could talk about was the horrible wind storm, supposedly one of the worst in like 50 years.

I probably wouldn't have minded the ride so much if I'd been sitting up front in a cockpit and could see everything, but confined in back in the cattle car section with just a little window to look out of, it felt :hairraise:
 
Henning said:
Only if you keep it below Va, otherwise that is a deadly incorrect statement. The human body LD-50 for acceleration is 50g, the LD-100 is 100g. A doctor brutalized his body on a rocket sled to bring us these numbers, I bet he had a blast.:D He can laugh at carrier pilots catapults and traps.
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My grandfather spent a good bit of time in the centrifuge doing high-g testing for the mercury program, at one point I know he detached a retina.
 
DavidWhite said:
My grandfather spent a good bit of time in the centrifuge doing high-g testing for the mercury program, at one point I know he detached a retina.
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I wonder what the highest they pull in a centrifuge is? I bet they went to the rocket sled because it limits the exposure time at high G.
 
... I woke up this morning

* WINDS: SOUTH 25 TO 45 MPH WITH GUSTS 60 TO 75 MPH. WIND PRONE
AREAS WILL GUST TO NEAR 90 MPH. RIDGE WINDS ALONG THE CREST WILL
GUST NEAR 120 MPH...WITH HIGHER SPEEDS POSSIBLE IN THE WHITE
MOUNTAINS.​
 
FlyingMonkey said:
When you guys have flown in this really bad turbulence was there always an Airmet out for it or did it come as a surprise?
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Nope. AIRMETs are for wide areas, and moderate turbulence was highly localized and underforecast both times I experienced it.
 
That some cool s@@@ right there!!! :yesnod:

ARFlyer said:
My eye doctor walked out and without missing a beat said "I bet you hit something in turblance".

He is an ex Vietnam fighter pilot.
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.............I begin to wonder how long the ride will be to the ground when the wings fold up. :eek:
 
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CharlieTango said:
... I woke up this morning

* WINDS: SOUTH 25 TO 45 MPH WITH GUSTS 60 TO 75 MPH. WIND PRONE
AREAS WILL GUST TO NEAR 90 MPH. RIDGE WINDS ALONG THE CREST WILL
GUST NEAR 120 MPH...WITH HIGHER SPEEDS POSSIBLE IN THE WHITE
MOUNTAINS.​
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I guess that wouldn't be the day to try to cross the Sierra for the first time? :)
 
CharlieTango said:
When you get into that 120+kt headwind it can be hard to penetrate and when you give up that 180 to the downwind can be a dramatic turn.
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That would be hard and perhaps impossible given DA in a 182. In a LSA or even a 172, good luck…

The turn off the runway would be rather eventful, though I guess you could just hover at full power into your parking spot.
 
...I took off from my home field of Denver Centennial! :D

I've seen more than my share flying in Colorado. Some real-life memories:

1. My pax and I getting our scalps creased/cut by headsets after slamming into the headliner twice in rapid and violent succession.

2. My cargo net failing and then my luggage flying all around the cabin.

3. My wife on the floor and crying due to (2).
 
colojo said:
...I took off from my home field of Denver Centennial! :D

I've seen more than my share flying in Colorado. Some real-life memories:

1. My pax and I getting our scalps creased/cut by headsets after slamming into the headliner twice in rapid and violent succession.

2. My cargo net failing and then my luggage flying all around the cabin.

3. My wife on the floor and crying due to (2).
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Geez....

Make that poor woman wear her seatbelt... That should keep her off the floor..;)
 
1544461_818359038225938_5375686917639299876_n.png
 
My dog floated weightless in the back seat . . . .

Maybe that was somewhat more than moderate.
 
FlyingMonkey said:
When you guys have flown in this really bad turbulence was there always an Airmet out for it or did it come as a surprise?
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Biggest ones I have hit were not forecast and no warning. I had a night upset in the pattern at KELP on crosswind that put me past 90* on crosswind. I have a LOT of the 45* uncommanded turns ... worst of those was a night flight also over KELP returning from a long XC I was getting 45* turns both directions continuously.
 
When the wife has been uncomfortably quiet durring the climbout and initial cruise, and then blurts out "I'm freaking out over here!!" Then I explain I can turn off the autopilot and it will help a little. After that it calmed down considerably. I should have done that a while back but thought she was good with the bumps. :0( I was really impressed.
 
MAKG1 said:
So, what's the windshear like coming out of Convict Canyon?
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Currently 190 @ 20G35. The socks are mostly strait out but are snapping left and right so tail wind gusts are happening.

It looks landable from the ground but at pattern attitude it might be too turbulent for me to approach.
 
Geico266 said:
Seriously! Aviate, navigate, communicate, then look for boob deflections!
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If boobies were installed in the panel, would they make a sound a good inclinometer?

MAKG1 said:
Ours is 10G.

The rocket sled specifically tested deceleration.
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I recall doing a motorcycle trackday at Summit Point and decided to move my brake marker 'just a little further' next time around, except I also decided to turn the throttle out of the exit 'just a little harder', when I hit the brakes to make my turn point, I could swear my eyes popped out of the sockets (I think my heart jumped out of my chest too).
CharlieTango said:
When you get into that 120+kt headwind it can be hard to penetrate and when you give up that 180 to the downwind can be a dramatic turn.
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Myth
 
Jaybird180 said:
Originally Posted by CharlieTango View Post
When you get into that 120+kt headwind it can be hard to penetrate and when you give up that 180 to the downwind can be a dramatic turn.
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Myth
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I wonder. The story comes from the local FBO here from the 80s/90s. He claims he was flying across the Sierra on V230 and when he got to Mammoth Pass (photo below) his ground speed went to zero and he eventually flew to Fresno for gas and came back via Bakersfield.

A north wind, even a big north wind can mean smooth air on the east side and all the way down V230 included. The airway does funnel to a venturi right at the pass and it is blowing over 100mph there today.

I got some dual from this guy building time to get to 40 and take my check ride. He didn't seem like a story teller.

post-6-0-54359500-1382310861.jpg
 
Darn. I'm really hoping for some serious VFR in March for our trip across, those pics are look fantastic.
 
CharlieTango said:
I wonder. The story comes from the local FBO here from the 80s/90s. He claims he was flying across the Sierra on V230 and when he got to Mammoth Pass (photo below) his ground speed went to zero and he eventually flew to Fresno for gas and came back via Bakersfield.

A north wind, even a big north wind can mean smooth air on the east side and all the way down V230 included. The airway does funnel to a venturi right at the pass and it is blowing over 100mph there today.

I got some dual from this guy building time to get to 40 and take my check ride. He didn't seem like a story teller.

post-6-0-54359500-1382310861.jpg
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Very nice shot of Twin Lakes, Horseshoe and Lake Mary, and the Crest.
 
CharlieTango said:
I wonder. The story comes from the local FBO here from the 80s/90s. He claims he was flying across the Sierra on V230 and when he got to Mammoth Pass (photo below) his ground speed went to zero and he eventually flew to Fresno for gas and came back via Bakersfield.

A north wind, even a big north wind can mean smooth air on the east side and all the way down V230 included. The airway does funnel to a venturi right at the pass and it is blowing over 100mph there today.

I got some dual from this guy building time to get to 40 and take my check ride. He didn't seem like a story teller.
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The myth is that there is anything unusual (I mean aside from turb) about the 180 turn. It's the old "downwind turn stall" myth told differently.

That a 120 kt headwind sucks donkey nuts is no myth. That is a fact!
 
petrolero said:
The myth is that there is anything unusual (I mean aside from turb) about the 180 turn. It's the old "downwind turn stall" myth told differently.

That a 120 kt headwind sucks donkey nuts is no myth. That is a fact!
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I didn't read it as a stall.

Having terrain come at you at 280 knots ground speed (remember, the pass is at 10,000 feet) will be rather dramatic, especially if you need to avoid it. That's unusual, and it's not a myth.
 
In the confined space with near zero groundspeed things happen very slowly. Before I turnaround and accelerate my ground speed from zero to 240kts I will want to consider the wind. If you choose left when you should have chosen right the canyon wall will get your attention.

Visually, in the pass the turn will certainly be dramatic.
 
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