3rd class medical dui/felony

D

dryad001

Filing Flight Plan
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Dec 2, 2014
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Display name:
dryad001
To give a history

1-15-96 Class I felony (driving without owners consent)
11-1998ish (1st DUI)
1-2004 (2nd DUI) This was the last ticket I have ever received.

These are the 3 things that have haunted me my adult life, I am now 37. I just left my well paying job to pursue a career in aviation as a A@P. To make myself more marketable (I will stay in the GA realm of thing and have no desire to move to the major carriers) I decided to take an intro flight and instantly fell in love with it. When I got a sample of the 3rd class medical and decided to do some digging of the Alcohol related and arrest offenses and none seems to be what Im looking for. So my questions are below

1. Am I better off as just an A@P with no hope of ever becoming a pilot?
2. Do I even try for a 3rd class medical with my prior history?

Thanks for any input
 
Find an attorney that specializes in aviation law if you're interested in anything other than Light Sport pilot.

There may be issues as an A&P with the DUIs. Again, find an aviation attorney.
 
I guess i should have clarified that Im currently taking classes for my A@P. Just finishing up general then onto airframe and finally powerplant. I have a graduation time of May 2016.
 
You need to speak with an expert in medical certification such as Bruce Chien, at http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/

He is the expert on these issues and if it can be done, he is the one to do it and if it can't, he won't waste your time. But you will have to be completely honest with him regarding your history.

We know he has been able to achieve medical certification for someone with a single DUI more than 10 years ago, but two of them could be problematic.
 
Doc Bruce will inquire the particulars but there's not enough information above to determine if you are certifiable or not. Did any of the arrests involve a refusal for the alcohol test or a BAC of .15 or over? You'll need 10 years of driving records to prove there weren't any more as well as the court records from your last (possibly earlier) arrests.

You're right ont hairy edge I think.
 
flyingron said:
Doc Bruce will inquire the particulars but there's not enough information above to determine if you are certifiable or not. Did any of the arrests involve a refusal for the alcohol test or a BAC of .15 or over? You'll need 10 years of driving records to prove there weren't any more as well as the court records from your last (possibly earlier) arrests.

You're right ont hairy edge I think.
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Never refused one of them. The first one was .10 and the second was a .11 or .12. For in the last 10 years on my drivers license there has been no tickets, not even a warning.

James331 said:
As in you stole a car?
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Unfortunately yes, the joy of being an idiotic 18yo. I was caught sitting in it, never left the lot.
 
I just wanted to say best of luck with your new career. Aviation can certainly be a tough path, but I'm sure if you have the passion and determination it will work out.
 
Go to the DME, list the items and be prepared to to detail the dates, outcomes, and penalties involved, which no doubt include some diversion courses, fines, probation, etc.

Type it all up so you can either append it or copy it neatly onto the application. The 10+ years without issue should help.

Then remember "Previously Reported - No recurrence" You'll need that for every future medical. And yes, it needs to be true.

If the DME grants the medical you're good to go. If not you can then get the lawyer involved.

I would suggest getting the medical/student certificate BEFORE investing in further training, since you don't want to spend the training dollars only to find you need lawyer money and/or may not be allowed to hold a certificate.
 
Call Bruce ASAP! Just do NOT lie to him, do not hold anything back. He helped me last year.
 
Can't help you with the Grand Theft Auto... but DUIs are fairly common and aren't necessarily a scarlet letter on life. Even multiple DUIs aren't consider habitual without taking into account the time frame.

For me I've had 2 DUIs, one when I was 19, the other at 32... Blew a .15 on the first, refused on the 2nd. Both were deferred. I'm 39 now and had no issues getting a 3rd class medical or an Airman's Certificate.
 
rolivi said:
Go to the DME, list the items and be prepared to to detail the dates, outcomes, and penalties involved, which no doubt include some diversion courses, fines, probation, etc.

Type it all up so you can either append it or copy it neatly onto the application. The 10+ years without issue should help.

Then remember "Previously Reported - No recurrence" You'll need that for every future medical. And yes, it needs to be true.

If the DME grants the medical you're good to go. If not you can then get the lawyer involved.

I would suggest getting the medical/student certificate BEFORE investing in further training, since you don't want to spend the training dollars only to find you need lawyer money and/or may not be allowed to hold a certificate.
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DME? Maybe not the right acronym? Do you mean Aviation Medical Examiner or AME?

Your advice is "almost not quite" the best and correct to provide the OP.

The proper route is NEVER go to to an official FAA Medical Examination with an AME until you know 100% that you are going to pass the exam. "Bombing" in with incomplete knowledge and documentation of your medical, criminal, and/or alcohol or mental history backgrounds is just opening a pandora's box full of cans of worms. And done all wrong, the aspiring airman runs the risk of being DENIED which means an instant end to any dreams of being pilot in command of any powered aircraft that requires holding a third class medical certificate.


The advice of CONSULTING with a very well informed, active, and well connected Aviation Medical Examiner such as Doctor Bruce Chien is the best course of action for any existing or prospective pilot that has a difficult medical certification challenge. CONSULTING first gives the AME the opportunity to obtain and review any and all information and documentation and advise the applicant if certification is possible. Or advise that more information is needed and provide counsel on what and how to get it. All before anything is turned over to the government

Once the Consulting Phase is done, and the AME says, "Yes, you meet the standards and you will be granted a certificate, and I will be your advocate to make it happen", then and only then should the applicant "go live" with the application, do the examination for real, and make the submission to the FAA.

Dryad001; many of us on this forum know Doctor Chien personally and many have made use of his services. He is one of a very small number of senior AME's who has the knowledge and connections to take cases like yours and render the best service. Seek him out. His services are not cheap, but will be very effective.

Last tip, do not lie to him, hide things from him, nor do anything else that wastes his time. He has a low tolerance of people who do that. But for those who will listen and follow his counsel, he will do all that is right and proper for you to help.

Best of luck to you and keep us informed of your progress!
 
rolivi said:
Go to the DME, list the items and be prepared to to detail the dates, outcomes, and penalties involved, which no doubt include some diversion courses, fines, probation, etc.

Type it all up so you can either append it or copy it neatly onto the application. The 10+ years without issue should help.

Then remember "Previously Reported - No recurrence" You'll need that for every future medical. And yes, it needs to be true.

If the DME grants the medical you're good to go. If not you can then get the lawyer involved.

I would suggest getting the medical/student certificate BEFORE investing in further training, since you don't want to spend the training dollars only to find you need lawyer money and/or may not be allowed to hold a certificate.
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AME. Aviation Medical Examiner.

As suggested here, contact Dr Bruce Chien immediately. If you visit an AME officially, you're now in the system with absolutely NO RECOURSE and nothing but very expensive options.

Last time I looked, none of the respondents to your question are AMEs or aviation lawyers. And stop posting details.

Harsh? You bet. Nothing ever goes away on the web.

Mike was more polite, but I'm on a tablet right now and hate typing on it. But we're saying the same thing.
 
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dryad001 said:
Unfortunately yes, the joy of being an idiotic 18yo. I was caught sitting in it, never left the lot.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes2:

How many other cars and items did you steal before you got caught?

Much can be written off under the title of "young, dumb..." Being a thief is not one of those things, that a non-recoverable character flaw.

If you do get into the industry you'll have to lie by omission about stealing cars, I don't know anyone who would trust their aircraft/credit card numbers/saftey/etc to a car theif, I sure as hell wouldn't.
 
James331 said:
:rolleyes2:

How many other cars and items did you steal before you got caught?

Much can be written off under the title of "young, dumb..." Being a thief is not one of those things, that a non-recoverable character flaw.

If you do get into the industry you'll have to lie by omission about stealing cars, I don't know anyone who would trust their aircraft/credit card numbers/saftey/etc to a car theif, I sure as hell wouldn't.
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I would. Generally the worst pilots and most untrustworthy people I've meet in the industry are the ones that spend all day telling everyone how perfect and skilled they are.
 
Dryad,

FWIW it's never occurred to me to question my pilot and mechanic acquaintances about their pasts. It's not my business. For your intended career path you'd likely benefit from joining AOPA and buying into the pilot protection services, which gives you aeromedical and legal consulting and assistance. It may be the best $99 you ever spent.

Good luck in your pursuits.
 
Alexb2000 said:
I would. Generally the worst pilots and most untrustworthy people I've meet in the industry are the ones that spend all day telling everyone how perfect and skilled they are.
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I agree with all of this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Stewartb said:
Dryad,

FWIW it's never occurred to me to question my pilot and mechanic acquaintances about their pasts. It's not my business. For your intended career path you'd likely benefit from joining AOPA and buying into the pilot protection services, which gives you aeromedical and legal consulting and assistance. It may be the best $99 you ever spent.

Good luck in your pursuits.
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Mmmmm beg to differ. AOPA currently doesn't do much to get one-on-one personal to help you. Not their primary mission (which is to help the group at large).

I'd take the $99 and invest that with the other funds to obtain Dr. Chien's assistance. He will get one-on-one and do all that's needed to help, if the situation permits certification.
 
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It's a pirep on my part. They were an important ally when I had a rather serious SI medical issue. It was definitely a good use of $99 for me.
 
Alexb2000 said:
I would. Generally the worst pilots and most untrustworthy people I've meet in the industry are the ones that spend all day telling everyone how perfect and skilled they are.
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Way off base bud.

There is a WHOLE LOT of middle ground between being Mr. MyChitDontStink and stealing peoples cars.

Heck I've done some dumb ****, but nothing close to stealing cars, breaking into homes, or being a thief.

Infact I'm more forgiving on police revenue generating "crimes" than most.

But thieves, I have zero mercy and believe they should be shot on sight, what if that car belonged to a single mom with no insurance and no other way to get to work, he would have just devastated that family.

I've had enough stuff stolen by sub-human trash that I have zero tolerance for the scum.

It's not like he got caught stealing a snickers bar when he was 5, the guy was grown and chose to steal a car.

He picked that path in life, and that's not a path that leads to many good jobs.

Perhaps he could install auto alarms, he would know how to keep his kind out :dunno:
 
James331 said:
Perhaps he could install auto alarms, he would know how to keep his kind out :dunno:
Click to expand...

Like the hacker teenagers who then turned their passion into a career as computer security types?
 
AggieMike88 said:
Like the hacker teenagers who then turned their passion into a career as computer security types?
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Beats digging ditches

Maybe turn his scumbag ways into something positive, under close supervision of course.
 
James331 said:
Way off base bud.

There is a WHOLE LOT of middle ground between being Mr. MyChitDontStink and stealing peoples cars.

Heck I've done some dumb ****, but nothing close to stealing cars, breaking into homes, or being a thief.

Infact I'm more forgiving on police revenue generating "crimes" than most.

But thieves, I have zero mercy and believe they should be shot on sight, what if that car belonged to a single mom with no insurance and no other way to get to work, he would have just devastated that family.

I've had enough stuff stolen by sub-human trash that I have zero tolerance for the scum.

It's not like he got caught stealing a snickers bar when he was 5, the guy was grown and chose to steal a car.

He picked that path in life, and that's not a path that leads to many good jobs.

Perhaps he could install auto alarms, he would know how to keep his kind out :dunno:
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Not much difference at all. We all break some law almost daily. Many of us have done things in the past that were felonies, we just didn't get caught, or we got attorneys to get us out of it. The "good people" as they like to call themselves, conveniently ignore or rationalize their own actions while condemning others for a lifetime. This concept is also VERY popular in religion. I like to just keep it simple and call it, "small minded hypocrisy".
 
Yeah, no

I've never stolen a car

Never broken into a home

Never stolen a credit card

Never assaulted some random innocent

Vandalized or burned down a business

Raped anyone

Murdered anyone

Etc.


If you compare me going 10over the speed limit or drinking a beer while snowboarding to stealing someone car or breaking into a home, you got issues.
 
Dryad,

Back on topic, another good avenue to find out what's what would be to call the FAA Region Flight Surgeon's office and talk to them. No 8500-8 or registration of name is required. Contrary to the popular notion of those with no experience they are not out to get you. They do have rules they have to operate by, though. And that's precisely what you need to find out about. I have nothing but praise for the Aeromed folks I've talked to in two region offices and at OKC.
 
The notion that people can't change is false. The reality is that some do, and some don't. Fortunately, most people learn and grow as they get older.
 
OkieAviator said:
For me I've had 2 DUIs, one when I was 19, the other at 32... Blew a .15 on the first, refused on the 2nd. Both were deferred. I'm 39 now and had no issues getting a 3rd class medical or an Airman's Certificate.
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No issues as in you just showed up and the AME didn't have to defer?
 
Not all AMEs are the same, some will defer certain things, some won't. Not all RFSs are the same - sometimes AMEs will call for advice and not all the advice will be the same.

This is another reason why you want to know ahead of time that you will pass, don't leave anything to chance.
 
dryad001 said:
To give a history

1-15-96 Class I felony (driving without owners consent)
11-1998ish (1st DUI)
1-2004 (2nd DUI) This was the last ticket I have ever received.

These are the 3 things that have haunted me my adult life, I am now 37. I just left my well paying job to pursue a career in aviation as a A@P. To make myself more marketable (I will stay in the GA realm of thing and have no desire to move to the major carriers) I decided to take an intro flight and instantly fell in love with it. When I got a sample of the 3rd class medical and decided to do some digging of the Alcohol related and arrest offenses and none seems to be what Im looking for. So my questions are below

1. Am I better off as just an A@P with no hope of ever becoming a pilot?
2. Do I even try for a 3rd class medical with my prior history?

Thanks for any input
Click to expand...

Hey man - make life easy on yourself. Finish your A&P and see if you really want to do that for a living. Get a sport pilot license and fly. They're cheap and fun and you can do tons of training that may eventually go towards your PPL. In 5-10 years you'll look a lot different on paper, and the third class medical requirements will have changed. No need to start out in aviation with all these hassles. And, stop drinking and stealing. :)
 
For all the advise given weather it be positive or negative all is welcomed. Ill have a more elaborate post when school lets out today. But with the unregistered poster i do plan to finish up my A@P first and foremost, thats my initial dream. The ppl is an afterthought and could possibly make myself more marketable in the future, never know what the world is going to be like in a year or 10.

Ill have more on this later.

Thanks again
 
While I definitely would seek a KNOWLEDGABLE AME (Bruce is a good one) for your first go round with the FAA, I think you can get it done. The felony by itself is old enough and isolated enough to not be a problem on its own but who knows what the FAA would think in combo with the others.

Similarly the old DUIs with out any signs of alcohol tolerance (high BAC or refusals) shouldn't be a MANDATORY deferral, but as stated, you'll need a lot of paperwork to be sumbitted with your application.

Good luck to you.
 
Thanks flyingron, thats what im gathering here.

I already have my driving record coming, the only thing on there are the 2 duis. It also states that treatment was done. It needed to be for me to get my dl back anyways.

Ive been waiting for an expungment date but with my current governor...well lets say we dont see eye to eye. He has stated that there will never be an expungement while he is in office.
 
Keep in mind even if you get past the Feds and get a entry level job with a small mom and pop shop where they probably won't ask and you no doubt won't mention that you're a felon thief, you most likley will have little room for advancing.

All the big companies I know run background checks, there is a slight chance you "changed" but with how many A&Ps are on the market for the higher level jobs, why would anyone take a chance of a felon/theif, especially around expensive avionics, tools, customers and aircraft.
 
No one is going to give him the advise of he should have posted anonymous?

You guys don't know his true back ground and you have given him many labels.

Good luck OP
 
James331 said:
Keep in mind even if you get past the Feds and get a entry level job with a small mom and pop shop where they probably won't ask and you no doubt won't mention that you're a felon thief, you most likley will have little room for advancing.

All the big companies I know run background checks, there is a slight chance you "changed" but with how many A&Ps are on the market for the higher level jobs, why would anyone take a chance of a felon/theif, especially around expensive avionics, tools, customers and aircraft.
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Ehh, maybe maybe not. I guess we'll see. If the ppl doesnt work out so be it, all i can say is i tried my hardest and thats good in my book. Even if the AP doesnt work out i have a vast knowledge of my prior industry and still get calls to come work for company x,y,z. So James are you here to keep giving me a label? Or do you want to try and be a part of the community and try and give some constructive ideas which seems like everyone else has?
 
James331 said:
If you compare me going 10over the speed limit or drinking a beer while snowboarding to stealing someone car or breaking into a home, you got issues.
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But didn't you compare stealing a car to capital murder?
"Should be shot on sight" I think you said.

Why do you get to determine where the line of zero tolerance is drawn?
 
dryad001 said:
...So James are you here to keep giving me a label? Or do you want to try and be a part of the community and try and give some constructive ideas which seems like everyone else has?
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Some people are capable of change, but James' attitude suggests that he may not be one of them.
 
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