Overkill

Hey, maybe he got an increase in useful load! :)
 
Why not? Makes for as cheap of a glass panel IFR/technology trainer as you can operate.
 
A buyer could get that for a good price. If you can get a glass panel on a 150 for the same price as others without one, you win.
 
Henning said:
Why not? Makes for as cheap of a glass panel IFR/technology trainer as you can operate.
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Exactly. I know a 152 owner who had a 430W and a mechanical HSI in his plane. He was using it as commuter for years so he didn't need to move his family when his company moved his job.
 
Most all planes flying will have a glass deck in them in a decade. As more people get exposed to the capabilities, more people want them. It's still cheaper to retrofit with the latest glass than to buy a factory glass plane, and you get better equipment.
 
I think it's fine.

At some point the owner may have been facing either a wonky attitude indicator or heading indicator or both, and mentally subtracted the cost of repair/replacement from the cost of the Aspen.

At the same time, he might have also seen the benefit of getting rid of his entire vacuum system with its associated plumbing (and weight).

Different strokes...
 
If I still have my 150 by the time (if) the Part 23 re-write happens, I will seriously look at putting in a glass panel.
 
What does a glass panel allow you to do that you cant do with a traditional 6 pack and an IFR GPS (and two radios, audio panel, Nav etc)?
 
how about the other extreme ? Saw a king air on the weekend (no not ours) with no autopilot, a KX170B com, and a KT76 transponder. No other avionics. Yes it was at a drop zone.
 
coloradobluesky said:
What does a glass panel allow you to do that you cant do with a traditional 6 pack and an IFR GPS (and two radios, audio panel, Nav etc)?
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Functionally? Not much, if anything.

But, historically, solid state devices have the potential to be far more reliable than multiple mechanical gauges. And, in turn, less expensive to maintain.
 
coloradobluesky said:
What does a glass panel allow you to do that you cant do with a traditional 6 pack and an IFR GPS (and two radios, audio panel, Nav etc)?
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With SVT, you get near instant situational awareness in a naturally interpreted 3D format, the one your brain has been using since you first opened your eyes.
 
Glass panels are less to maintain? They certainly cost a LOT more. I have no firm idea, but a redo of a typical small GA airplane is 50k or more. Its cheaper to sell the plane and buy one with a glass panel.

Although I've flown a glass panel, briefly, I learned IFR on a 6 pack and an IFR GPS. Still works fine for me. I prefer it.
 
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Would trade out the gps for a Garmin 430 w.you can never be too safe. It's only money.l
 
Buy the plane, pull out the Aspen, sell it for the same price you bought it for.....sounds like a win win!
 
If so, that's cool. But unless you are flying into zero/zero or near that, I prefer REAL vision.
 
coloradobluesky said:
What is SVT? Synthetic vision?
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Yep. That is what Glass is all about, without it's just another representation for multi-interpretation instrumentation for control by instruments. With SVT it's an eVFR representation of your view on the screen overlaid with data. We spent a lot of public money on the Space Shuttle missions to build this database, to not take advantage is silly. Seeing your runway centerline ahead as you are shooting the ILS or LPV to minimums with you Predictor sitting right on the ILS marks as the HSI in the same field of view is showing centered and on slope.
 
Do you get to push on the rudder pedals, turn the yoke or manipulate the elevator? Or is it ALL computer run?
 
coloradobluesky said:
Do you get to push on the rudder pedals, turn the yoke or manipulate the elevator? Or is it ALL computer run?
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That's autopilot, that's another issue. I had glass but no autopilot every control input was mine. I like having good information flying single pilot with no AP. You can choose an autopilot to eliminate all those functions, but that doesn't require glass.
 
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What's crazy is the $10k+ instrument panel in a $10k airplane
 
mrkbbd said:
What's crazy is the $10k+ instrument panel in a $10k airplane
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Why? The value of the airframe is not directly representative to the value of the avionics. They are two different sets of capabilities. If one wants the situational awareness available with advanced avionics, and has a mission that is fulfilled economically with a 152, one has full operational value at the lowest price point.
 
People buy new cars knowing they will lose 25% driving it off the curb. I almost put $10k into my Cherokee panel, but I decided that the plane didn't totally fit my mission. If I could have pictured myself in the plane for five years I would have done it. I considered it an investment in myself, not the plane.
 
Henning said:
Why? The value of the airframe is not directly representative to the value of the avionics. They are two different sets of capabilities. If one wants the situational awareness available with advanced avionics, and has a mission that is fulfilled economically with a 152, one has full operational value at the lowest price point.
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Since the Aspen is connected to a non-IFR GPS, isn't it not IFR capable? Or will the VOR on the Kx155 make it IFR capable with the gps for "VFR use only"? I'm not sure how that works considering for the synthetic vision it is using the GPS location as well as for the box in the corner with the navigation information?
 
FastEddieB said:
...At the same time, he might have also seen the benefit of getting rid of his entire vacuum system with its associated plumbing (and weight).
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I think I still see a vacuum driven attitude indicator on the panel.

?????

Nice looking little 150. As Henning said, the Aspen is a nice way of introducing students to glass without doing the entire dog-and-pony show.

Mike
 
Henning said:
Yep. That is what Glass is all about, without it's just another representation for multi-interpretation instrumentation for control by instruments. With SVT it's an eVFR representation of your view on the screen overlaid with data. We spent a lot of public money on the Space Shuttle missions to build this database, to not take advantage is silly. Seeing your runway centerline ahead as you are shooting the ILS or LPV to minimums with you Predictor sitting right on the ILS marks as the HSI in the same field of view is showing centered and on slope.
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'Zactly. Synthetic vision, on a 10.5" screen, is like having a window through the bottom of the nose of the airplane, showing what's out there -- whether it's visible out the window or not.

The enhancement in situational awareness is hard to appreciate. All I know is, after 8 months with glass, I would not want to go back to steam gauges and vacuum pumps.

Now, a single Aspen panel only gives you a tiny sliver of that view, so putting that in a 150 is, perhaps, silly. But putting glass in an experimental aircraft, no matter how small or capable, is the only way to go.
 
Why not? 150s are a lot of fun to fly. For someone who wants to fly a 150 but also wants a more modern panel this is perfect.
 
If I had the panel space and electircal capacity I would drop a glass Dynon and an IFR GPS in the Flybaby without hesitation. I want to fly that thing IFR so bad but it'd be so expensive to make happen from its current state.

Anyone know if it'd be possible to get the faa to thumbs up an IFR install that was dependent on electricity without an alternator or generator? Using the new lithium battery options I bet I could figure out a way to run a Dynon for many hours. I would just get vectors everywhere and leave the nav radio off until it was time for the approach...hmm.....

I'm sure I could figure out how to have more electircal runtime than fuel endurance.
 
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coloradobluesky said:
What does a glass panel allow you to do that you cant do with a traditional 6 pack and an IFR GPS (and two radios, audio panel, Nav etc)?
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Not much. But trend lines are kinda nice.

Single Aspens don't seem to be more expensive than working over a broken panel. That might be what happened. I've seen it before.
 
A few years ago I was as an FBO where some light sport manufacturers were exhibiting their airplanes. One manufacturer had a steam gauge version and a glass version. The glass version was less expensive. I asked the sales guy why, and his explanation was that the glass panel was actually cheaper to buy and install than the individual steam gauges.
 
John221us said:
People buy new cars knowing they will lose 25% driving it off the curb. I almost put $10k into my Cherokee panel, but I decided that the plane didn't totally fit my mission. If I could have pictured myself in the plane for five years I would have done it. I considered it an investment in myself, not the plane.
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It's not an investment in the plane because it's not an investment at all. It's a toy. And that is ok. Just call it what it is.
 
JHW said:
It's not an investment in the plane because it's not an investment at all. It's a toy. And that is ok. Just call it what it is.
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Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I know two guys who put glass in their planes in order to sell them, after languishing on the market for almost a year. It worked, although they (of course) didn't get the full value out of the installation.

It's getting to the point that steam gauges are becoming harder to sell.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I know two guys who put glass in their planes in order to sell them, after languishing on the market for almost a year. It worked, although they (of course) didn't get the full value out of the installation.

It's getting to the point that steam gauges are becoming harder to sell.
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Yep, and the prices on them are reflecting it.
 
coloradobluesky said:
ut a redo of a typical small GA airplane is 50k or more. .
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Sad, and why I'm building an Experimental. All glass everything, no vacuum pump, no crappy electromechanical gauges, for about $15 K.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If you can buy it at a good price, why not? But I wouldn't install an Aspen on a 150....but that's just me.
 
coloradobluesky said:
What does a glass panel allow you to do that you cant do with a traditional 6 pack and an IFR GPS (and two radios, audio panel, Nav etc)?
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"It is harder to develop an effective instrument scan and reach IFR checkride proficiency standards (e.g., ± 100 feet) with round gauges. Physiologically, eyes have to work harder to scan round gauge instruments. Initially, the eyes must focus on the center of one gauge and detect what it indicates. Then they have to jump over two barriers—the edges of two adjacent instruments—before refocusing on the center of the next gauge. This jumping of barriers and refocusing becomes fatiguing over time. Contrast that with a PFD, such as in the Garmin G1000 or Perspective, that lets your eyes move uninterrupted among instrument indications." - Max Trescott "Trends Aloft"
 
Just an individual data point.

My prior ride was an SR22 with Avidyne PFD/MFD, and I logged about 500 hours in it. So I became competent with glass.

But...

I have a Dynon PFD front and center in my Sky Arrow:

12878614734_bdec69989c_z.jpg


In practice, it gets used for exactly three things. I can input OAT (I don't have the requisite probe to make it automatic) and it displays TAS and DA. It is also my only source for vertical speed info.

That's it. I mean, it's nice to have an attitude indicator to bail me out of inadvertent IMC, but in 400 hours I have not come close to needing that.

For all normal flying, I use the steam gauge airspeed and altimeter*. There is no doubt that I can interpret them more quickly and easily than the Dynon displays of the same information. The physical ball front and center is also easier to see/interpret than the faux ball on the Dynon**.

Not making a case one way or another, and it may be a case of an old dog and new tricks, but there you have it!


*I don't have a remote compass either, and the magnetic heading display on the Dynon is a bear to calibrate, so I have not bothered to date. It's way off, as you can see in the photo, so it's easier just to use the vertical compass in the lower left of the panel.

** I never did get used to the Avidyne slip/skid display, even there reverting to the physical ball on the backup attitude indicator. I always wondered why Avidyne chose a display they did (a weird doghouse thingee) rather than just replicate the ball in a tube display all pilots were already familiar with.
 
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